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Fukushima - Consequences? (Read 102536 times)
muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #285 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:32pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:23pm:
It will turn out to be a criminal decision

Greenpeace is the only organisation to my knowledge that is assisting the Japanese people by accepting food samplings from them for testing. The results may be useful in any future litigation and law suites. If your rich and/or smart enough you should consider having some of your typical food items tested for various radioactive isotopes - especially Idonie129/131, Cesium137, Strontium90 and even Plutoniuum

You can see the corporate profit motive continue to play a role in how this disaster is portrayed in the public

Its just disgraceful - and to see people online act as apologists and trivialisers of a major radiological incident is pathetic to say the least

I am really quire ashamed to be even engaging in conversation with them


Are you a member of Greenpeace?
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Equitist
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #286 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:44pm
 


perceptions_now wrote on Apr 3rd, 2011 at 11:53am:

Btw, sorry if my contributions have been a little intermittent recently, we have had a few distractions.

The major one being, we are now grand parents to a heatlhy 3.7kg baby girl, mum & daughter are doing well!





Congrats, Perceptions - best wishes to you and yours!

Wink

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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #287 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:55pm
 


The contaminated water that is leaking from that cracked pit - and flowing into the ocean - is so high in radioactivity that the level exceeds that which the dosimeters on site can measure!

Hello, why is this not ringing very loud alarm bells!?

Why have they not brought in equipment that can measure significantly higher levels!?


Quote:
After some high-profile errors, little new information on water, ground and air radiation has been released since Thursday. One reason is that the dosimeters being used don't go above 1,000 millisieverts per hour, said Junichi Matsumoto, an executive with Tokyo Electric.

Authorities know the water in the cracked concrete shaft is emitting at least that much radiation -- which equates, at a minimum, to more than 330 times the dose an average resident of an industrialized country naturally receives in a year.



Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/04/japan.nuclear.reactors/

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Foolosophy
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #288 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:55pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:32pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:23pm:
It will turn out to be a criminal decision

Greenpeace is the only organisation to my knowledge that is assisting the Japanese people by accepting food samplings from them for testing. The results may be useful in any future litigation and law suites. If your rich and/or smart enough you should consider having some of your typical food items tested for various radioactive isotopes - especially Idonie129/131, Cesium137, Strontium90 and even Plutoniuum

You can see the corporate profit motive continue to play a role in how this disaster is portrayed in the public

Its just disgraceful - and to see people online act as apologists and trivialisers of a major radiological incident is pathetic to say the least

I am really quire ashamed to be even engaging in conversation with them


Are you a member of Greenpeace?


no - but I respect the work they do (even if they go over the top sometimes - they do far more good than bad which is more than I can say for the general corporate community)
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Equitist
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #289 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 10:08pm
 


The full article, complete with an illustration of the flow - of both water and bullshyte out of Fukushima...

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/04/japan.nuclear.reactors/

...
A Tokyo Electric Power Company picture from April 2 shows water gushing from the cracked concrete shaft.

Quote:
Workers rush to get rid of radioactive water at Japanese nuclear plant
By the CNN Wire Staff

April 4, 2011 -- Updated 1054 GMT (1854 HKT)

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

    * NEW: Water from a treatment facility and around four reactors will be dumped
    * Officials say this is to create space for radioactive water from near the No. 2 unit
    * The official calls the step "unavoidable," saying it's needed to ensure safety
    * Basement water threatens "stability" of the Nos. 5 and 6 units' cooling systems

Tokyo (CNN) -- About 11,500 tons of radioactive water that has collected at the crippled Fukishima Daiichi nuclear facility will be dumped into the Pacific Ocean, officials said Monday, as workers prioritize dealing with a crack that has been a conduit for contamination.

These are the latest, but hardly the only challenges facing workers at the embattled power plant and its six reactors, which have been in constant crisis since last month's ruinous earthquake and tsunami.

Officials with the Tokyo Electric Power Company, which runs the plant, proposed Monday afternoon releasing excess water that has pooled in and around the Nos. 3, 4, 5 and 6 reactors into the sea. But most of the dumped water -- 10,000 tons -- will come from the plant's central waste treatment facility, which will then be used to store highly radioactive water from the No. 2 unit, an official with the power company said.

Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano called the dumping "unavoidable," even though this liquid was most likely contaminated in the process of trying to cool nuclear fuel rods.

The build-up of water could cause problems around the nuclear facility, which is 240 kilometers (150 miles) north of Tokyo, Edano said Monday.

Authorities have made a priority of dealing with water from the No. 2 unit, some of which has been gushing into the sea through a crack in a concrete shaft.

"The radioactivity level is very high near the No. 2 reactor, and we know this. We have to stop the leak as early as possible to prevent this from going into the sea," said Edano. "The radioactivity level is much less in the water from the Nos. 3 and 4 units."

"For the safety of the (No. 2) reactor, we have no choice," he added.

The water will be dumped "as soon as possible," Hidehiko Nishiyama of Japan's nuclear and industrial safety agency said early Monday evening.

Neither attempt to fill the 20-centimeter (8-inch) crack outside the No. 2 reactor's turbine building -- on Saturday by pouring in concrete, then Sunday by using a chemical compound mixed with sawdust and newspaper -- was successful.

As they mull other ways to cut off the leak at its source, workers will install a silt fence along a damaged sea wall surrounding the plant, Nishiyama said. The aim of this screening, usually used to halt erosion at construction sites, is to prohibit the spread of radioactive particles into the sea.

Workers also have injected a dye tracer into the water to allow them to track the dispersal of such particles, the spokesman added.

Addressing the issue quickly is critical because officials believe it is a source of alarmingly high radiation levels in seawater near the plant, as well as in nearby groundwater.

Complicating the situation is the fact that, in some cases, authorities don't even know how much radiation is getting out.

After some high-profile errors, little new information on water, ground and air radiation has been released since Thursday. One reason is that the dosimeters being used don't go above 1,000 millisieverts per hour, said Junichi Matsumoto, an executive with Tokyo Electric.

Authorities know the water in the cracked concrete shaft is emitting at least that much radiation -- which equates, at a minimum, to more than 330 times the dose an average resident of an industrialized country naturally receives in a year.


Plugging the external leak is job one, in order to prevent the outflow of radiation into the Pacific. But it may not be the most difficult, or important, task ahead.

Authorities still have to figure out how the tainted water got into the concrete shaft in the first place. The water had to come from somewhere, potentially traveling across melted-down nuclear fuel in the reactor's core before somehow reaching the outside.

"We were assuming and hoping (that water) would stay in the containment vessel as vapor after being cooled," Nishiyama, the nuclear safety official, said Sunday. "However, it may have flowed into the building, and then the trench."

Determining why and how that happened -- and what to do about it -- may be "exceptionally challenging," said physicist James Acton, with the Washington-based Carnegie Endowment think tank. Officials may have to inspect a complex array of pipes inside the dangerous radioactive environment inside the containment buildings.

The state of the Nos. 5 and 6 units is another new problem. Water in their turbine buildings' basements threatens the power supply for the system used to cool nuclear material...


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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #290 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 10:09pm
 


/contd.

Quote:
Determining why and how that happened -- and what to do about it -- may be "exceptionally challenging," said physicist James Acton, with the Washington-based Carnegie Endowment think tank. Officials may have to inspect a complex array of pipes inside the dangerous radioactive environment inside the containment buildings.

The state of the Nos. 5 and 6 units is another new problem. Water in their turbine buildings' basements threatens the power supply for the system used to cool nuclear material in these units spent fuel pools, said Edano. This makes it imperative to pump out that water, which will end up into the sea like that from around the Nos. 3 and 4 units.

"Though those reactors are stable at the moment, the growing water level in the turbine houses may disturb their stability," said Edano.

The effort to keep the Nos. 1, 2 and 3 reactor cores and spent fuel pools cool took a step forward Sunday, when the electricity source powering those three units' cooling systems was switched from a temporary diesel generator to a more permanent, external power supply, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency's website.

Authorities hope this step, as well as preventing damage to the Nos. 5 and 6 units' power supply, will help to minimize the prospect of any more radiation that might contaminate tap water or food.

Farmers have pushed for lower standards on radiation in food, calling them unnecessarily stringent. On Monday, Edano said these limits would not change, even as he outlined a process in which sales restrictions on certain crops, in certain areas, would be lifted if they test safe three times in a row.

In the long run, utility and government officials want to make sure the nuclear fuel, and the potentially cancerous materials it can release, never poses a threat again.

One option being considered, a Tokyo Electric spokesman said Monday, is to wrap some or all of the reactors' containment buildings in massive amounts of sheeting. But for now, the aim is to make sure that the nuclear fuel rods do not overheat -- and release more radiation into the air, water and ground.

"Finally, we (need to) establish a long-term policy to cool the reactors," said Nishiyama, while acknowledging that much work needs to be done in the meantime.

CNN's Matt Smith, Tsukushi Ikeda, Yoko Wakatsuki, Junko Ogura, Midori Nakata, Susan Olson and Martin Savidge contributed to this report



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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #291 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 10:19pm
 
[color=#00
00ff]GREENPEACE today widened its radiation tests near Japan's stricken nuclear plant to also include checks of milk and vegetables, the environmental watchdog said in a statement.
A Greenpeace field team charged with food testing would join another group near the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant surveying surface contamination, according to the statement.

"The official response to the radiation risk continues to be sporadic and contradictory, leaving local populations confused and at risk," Greenpeace radiation expert Rianne Teule said in the statement.

"We hope to be able to provide independent analysis and clear advice to (affected) populations."
[/color]

Why is Greenpeace the only organisation conducting these tests and making them public?

What a corporate disgrace
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #292 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 11:04am
 
NRSI have been conducting tests and making them public since day 1 - well maybe 3.
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #293 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 11:21am
 


muso wrote on Apr 5th, 2011 at 11:04am:
NRSI have been conducting tests and making them public since day 1 - well maybe 3.




Sorry, Muso, but they haven't been conducting enough systematic tests, with the right equipment - and their adhoc findings haven't been released in a timely fashion...

It is simply not good enough that they are measuring radiation with equipment that does not record levels as high as those that are being emitted...

How do we know if the levels are 1,001 millisieverts per hour or 2,000 millisieverts per hour or even 10,000 millisieverts per hour!?


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/04/japan.nuclear.reactors/

Quote:
Complicating the situation is the fact that, in some cases, authorities don't even know how much radiation is getting out.

After some high-profile errors, little new information on water, ground and air radiation has been released since Thursday. One reason is that the dosimeters being used don't go above 1,000 millisieverts per hour, said Junichi Matsumoto, an executive with Tokyo Electric.

Authorities know the water in the cracked concrete shaft is emitting at least that much radiation -- which equates, at a minimum, to more than 330 times the dose an average resident of an industrialized country naturally receives in a year.




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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #294 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 11:48am
 
day 1 day 3 - whats the difference?

when did the explosions occur again?
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #295 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 12:36pm
 
Equitist wrote on Apr 5th, 2011 at 11:21am:
muso wrote on Apr 5th, 2011 at 11:04am:
NRSI have been conducting tests and making them public since day 1 - well maybe 3.




Sorry, Muso, but they haven't been conducting enough systematic tests, with the right equipment - and their adhoc findings haven't been released in a timely fashion...

It is simply not good enough that they are measuring radiation with equipment that does not record levels as high as those that are being emitted...

How do we know if the levels are 1,001 millisieverts per hour or 2,000 millisieverts per hour or even 10,000 millisieverts per hour!?





I think you've got the wrong end of the stick there. NRSI have been conducting the radiation monitoring in the residential areas around Fukushima, not in the plant itself.

Your wrath needs to be directed at TEPCO.
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #296 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 12:45pm
 
Newly Released TEPCO Data Provides Evidence of Periodic Chain Reaction at Fukushima Unit 1

April 3rd, 2011 - Embedded Video at below site

Recent press reports have discussed the possibility that Fukushima Unit 1 may be having a nuclear chain reaction. New data released by TEPCO indicates that even though Fukushima Unit 1 was shut down during the March 11 earthquake, it appears to have "gone critical" again without human intervention. The detection by TEPCO of short-lived radioactive isotopes substantiates the existence of this inadvertent criticality.

New Images Reveal Nuclear Fuel Rack Exposed to Air

March 31st, 2011 No 2- Embedded Video at below site

Fairewinds Chief Engineer, Arnie Gundersen, analyzes new video from the Fukushima Daiichi Plant. Gundersen determines that the fuel rack in reactor building 4 is exposed to air.

Update on Fukushima: Discussion of High Level Radiation Releases and the Previous "Worse Case Senario" Planned for by The Industry

March 31st, 2011 No 1- Embedded Video at below site

Gundersen describes the Fukushima plant as stable, but precarious. In this update, he discusses the high levels of radiation (2 Million disintegrations/second being found on the ground as far as 25 miles from the plant site.) He also addresses a New York Times report of hundreds of tons of water being put into the reactors each day. Gundersen points out that all of the water going in to the reactors is being irradiated, leaking out, and polluting the Ocean. He concludes by discussing the differences between the accident scenarios that the nuclear industry previously planned for and what has actually happened.

Update on Fukushima: Discovery of Plutonium Leakage and Highly Radioactive Water

March 29th, 2011 - Embedded Video at below site

Arnie Gundersen, Chief Engineer of Fairewinds Associates, discusses the recent finding of plutonium in the soil at five locations around the Daiichi power plant. He also addresses the discovery of highly radioactive water found in trenches which appear to be draining into the ocean.

News on Fukushima Daiichi

March 25th, 2011 - Embedded Video at below site

Arnie Gundersen discusses the specifics of radiation exposure.

Update on Fukushima Daiichi

March 23rd, 2011 - Embedded Video at below site

Link -
http://www.fairewinds.com/updates
================================
A series of 6 embedded video updates, these video's are very informative and relatively easy to understand and I recommend spending the time, to gain an understanding of these very serious issues.


Full details of the video's maker (Arnold Gundersen) are available at the following link.
However, his background briefly is -

Arnie is an energy advisor with 39-years of nuclear power engineering experience. A former nuclear industry senior vice president, he earned his Bachelor's and Master's Degrees in nuclear engineering, holds a nuclear safety patent, and was a licensed reactor operator. During his nuclear industry career, Arnie managed and coordinated projects at 70-nuclear power plants around the country.

As the former vice president in an engineering organization, Arnie led the team of engineers who developed the plans for decommissioning Shippingport, the first major nuclear power plant in the US to be fully dismantled.  
http://www.fairewinds.com/content/who-we-are



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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #297 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 12:59pm
 
Will the radiation cease from the Fukushima nuclear waste dump by the 2096 Olympics Games?

Read on and weap with laughter

Filtering radiation from the water would take too long and its release will help protect equipment in the buildings housing the reactors, another spokesman said yesterday.

The potential additional radiation dose to a person eating seaweed or seafood caught near the plant every day for a year would be 0.6 millisievert, the IAEA said in a statement. That compares to 0.85 millsievert from a year of exposure to granite that comprises the U.S. Capitol, according to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.


Incredible isnt it?

They do not include the radiation concentration effect that will occur in the food chain via the bioaccumulation process.

As algae take up radionuclotides the species up the food chain further concentrate these lethal radioactive isotopes until YOU have a nice tuna salad on your plate - I wonder if the 0.6 miliSv dose is applicable in this situtation.

Do NOT believe anything that comes out of the mouths of oficials representing TEPCO or the IAEA.

(The Japanese Authorities and politicians you can udnerstand - after all they are puppets to the fascist corporate welfare state that enslaves us - WE MUST SAVE TEPCO AND ITS STOCK VALUE - WE MUST SAVE THE CORPORATION AND THE CEO BONUSES - EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY - You only have to look at how the TEPCO workers are being used as guinea pigs as well as the regular and volunteer fire fighters)
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muso
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #298 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 1:47pm
 
Don't you think it has gone a bit beyond the issue of CEO bonuses?  The Fukushima Number 1 (Daichi) plant is now scrap. It will never work again.

Everybody involved is trying to minimise the effects of this incident. It has gone past any possible cover-ups and scandals. That's everybody Including the management and workers at the site.

The cracks in the tunnel were the result of a natural disaster that the plant was not designed to cope with. Now we can follow the BMW approach (Bitch, Moan and Whinge) or we can ask ourselves realisitically what are the likely exposures? and  how can we learn from this. 


Instead of bitching moaning and using every hyperbole in the book, you might be better served trying to understand the consequences.
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Re: Fukushima - Consequences?
Reply #299 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 2:10pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 5th, 2011 at 1:47pm:
Don't you think it has gone a bit beyond the issue of CEO bonuses?  The Fukushima Number 1 (Daichi) plant is now scrap. It will never work again.

Everybody involved is trying to minimise the effects of this incident. It has gone past any possible cover-ups and scandals. That's everybody Including the management and workers at the site.

The cracks in the tunnel were the result of a natural disaster that the plant was not designed to cope with. Now we can follow the BMW approach (Bitch, Moan and Whinge) or we can ask ourselves realisitically what are the likely exposures? and  how can we learn from this.  


Instead of bitching moaning and using every hyperbole in the book, you might be better served trying to understand the consequences.


Sorry Muso, I'm sure we WILL hear about a few scandals, but there WILL be some cover ups, that never see the light or endure any scrutiny, that's life!
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