Australian Politics Forum - Man killed "for his own safety"

BigOl64

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #15 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:11pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:06pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:

MAVIS!

I was hoping you'd say something like .. yes indeed Lisa .. there is a slight spot of bother in a situation where an armed officer of the law states he used his tazer FIVE times .. when in actual fact he used it TWENTY EIGHT times .. ON THE ONE PERSON!

I'll have to disagree with you Lisa.....

The officer claimed he used his Taser FIVE times.....but the device recorded twenty eight times......the internal data record is not the same thing as 'actual fact'.....

But it would be easy enough to determine if the data recorder was serviceable or not. And if it was counting the hits correctly that would be an 'actual fact' wouldn't it?

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Templar

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #16 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:12pm

Quote:

Posted by: BigOl64 Posted on: Today at 2:49pm

I don't think paperwork is going to solve the problem.

Maybe being charged with assault or murder would tighten things up a bit. You known making the cops accountable to the same laws as the rest of us.

For the 2000 assaults commited by QLD coppers there should have been 2000 charges laid, not $4 mil in hush money paid out.

I think that police do a very difficult job and yes some times they do go over the top, but I have seen some of these 'assualts' by police officers at public events and the victims often have brought it on themselves.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #17 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:15pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:06pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:

MAVIS!

I was hoping you'd say something like .. yes indeed Lisa .. there is a slight spot of bother in a situation where an armed officer of the law states he used his tazer FIVE times .. when in actual fact he used it TWENTY EIGHT times .. ON THE ONE PERSON!

I'll have to disagree with you Lisa.....

The officer claimed he used his Taser FIVE times.....but the device recorded twenty eight times......the internal data record is not the same thing as 'actual fact'.....

Isn't it?

Well .. let's see what happens next in this rather interesting case Gizmo.

It will depend on the accuracy of the internal chip on the taser.....

Remember the original police hand held radar guns????
If they were used from INSIDE an idling police car, they added about 15 or 20 kph to the target vehicle's speed.....because there was a glitch, where the fan of the police car was picked up as well as the target vehicle...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #18 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:16pm

Templar wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

We had a similar case in WA involving one Kevin Sprat, 24 shocks over 2 days I believe (can't post a link because of the 5 post rule), it was luckily not fatal.

I think there needs to be greater control over the use of tasers, by making more paperwork for each shocked delivered by the devices the officers will think twice before applying them so liberally.

Funny you should say that - this is from todays west australian:

Quote:

Taser use by police has dropped dramatically since new guidelines were introduced, Police Commissioner Karl O'Callaghan said today.

Speaking on 6PR, Mr O'Callaghan said that in the two months before he changed the guidelines, Tasers were used 148 times.

That number fell to 65 since police officers were told they could only use Tasers to prevent "serious injury".

Mr O'Callaghan said there had not been an increase in the assaults against police during that time.

Of the 65 times Tasers were used, about 60 per cent of those were only 'red dot activations', where officers activate the weapon to the point were a red dot appears on the suspect rather than it being fired.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/8986522/taser-use-drops-on-new-rules/

I'm pretty sure the 'serious injury' clause was in place when tasers were rolled out...but somewhere along the line, it got disregarded. the 'red dot' activations would probably account for some of the discrepnacy between the 5 times the cops claimed they used it, and the 28 times the device recorded.

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In the fullness of time...

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Templar New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 44 Perth Gender:	Re: Man killed "for his own safety" Reply #19 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:18pm Thanks for the info Wesley, it does show that police (well not all) aren't just trigger happy, but maybe got a bit over excited with their new toys.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #20 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:21pm

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:06pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:

MAVIS!

I was hoping you'd say something like .. yes indeed Lisa .. there is a slight spot of bother in a situation where an armed officer of the law states he used his tazer FIVE times .. when in actual fact he used it TWENTY EIGHT times .. ON THE ONE PERSON!

I'll have to disagree with you Lisa.....

The officer claimed he used his Taser FIVE times.....but the device recorded twenty eight times......the internal data record is not the same thing as 'actual fact'.....

But it would be easy enough to determine if the data recorder was serviceable or not. And if it was counting the hits correctly that would be an 'actual fact' wouldn't it?

Yes, and has anyone done so yet??...it might register as a probably fact.....given that electronic devices can develop 'occasional' glitches....

And it would also depend on how old the device is, and how many models the particular company has produced....

Plus the general specs for hand held tasers used in Australia is that they hold about 10 charges before the battery is flat.....Which makes the 28 uses thing an interesting idea....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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BigOl64

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #21 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:21pm

Templar wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

I think that police do a very difficult job and yes some times they do go over the top, but I have seen some of these 'assualts' by police officers at public events and the victims often have brought it on themselves.

When we allow the cops to get off scot free after they have commited a crime, one which you or I would be duly charged and probably convicted, we are asking for trouble as a society.

All I ask is the the police are held to the same account as your or I, regardless of the circumstance.

No more paying of compensation as hush money, charge the cop as you would anyone else.

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BigOl64

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #22 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:27pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:21pm:

Yes, and has anyone done so yet??...it might register as a probably fact.....given that electronic devices can develop 'occasional' glitches....

And it would also depend on how old the device is, and how many models the particular company has produced....

Plus the general specs for hand held tasers used in Australia is that they hold about 10 charges before the battery is flat.....Which makes the 28 uses thing an interesting idea....

It would be a pretty p1ss poor investigationif it wasn't.

All electronic devices can be tested for faults even intermittent ones; I would trust the electronics before I would trust a cop trying to save his own @rse.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #23 - Mar 10^th, 2011 at 4:34pm

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:21pm:

Yes, and has anyone done so yet??...it might register as a probably fact.....given that electronic devices can develop 'occasional' glitches....

And it would also depend on how old the device is, and how many models the particular company has produced....

Plus the general specs for hand held tasers used in Australia is that they hold about 10 charges before the battery is flat.....Which makes the 28 uses thing an interesting idea....

It would be a pretty p1ss poor investigationif it wasn't.

All electronic devices can be tested for faults even intermittent ones; I would trust the electronics before I would trust a cop trying to save his own @rse.

Like Wesley said in an earlier post....sometimes the tasers record 'activation' just from the targetting laser....

I'm a supporter of tasers, CS gas and batons....All these are still less lethal than shooting the offender, which is the only actual alternative to the current 'non-lethal' methods...

To be honest, I've seen people nearly die from 'open hand' arrests.....it happens...

If you manage to ban things like tasers CS spray etc...the alternative is a 10mm bullet to the heart.......THINK about it....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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BigOl64

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #24 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:35am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 4:34pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 3:21pm:

Yes, and has anyone done so yet??...it might register as a probably fact.....given that electronic devices can develop 'occasional' glitches....

And it would also depend on how old the device is, and how many models the particular company has produced....

Plus the general specs for hand held tasers used in Australia is that they hold about 10 charges before the battery is flat.....Which makes the 28 uses thing an interesting idea....

It would be a pretty p1ss poor investigationif it wasn't.

All electronic devices can be tested for faults even intermittent ones; I would trust the electronics before I would trust a cop trying to save his own @rse.

Like Wesley said in an earlier post....sometimes the tasers record 'activation' just from the targetting laser....

I'm a supporter of tasers, CS gas and batons....All these are still less lethal than shooting the offender, which is the only actual alternative to the current 'non-lethal' methods...

To be honest, I've seen people nearly die from 'open hand' arrests.....it happens...

If you manage to ban things like tasers CS spray etc...the alternative is a 10mm bullet to the heart.......THINK about it....

I'm not against anything Giz.

I would like to see cops charged for commiting crimes against the population in the same way the rest of us are.

Im sick of the QLD government covering up police crimes with hush money.

If it was assault or manslaughter, then the Federal Police come in and do the investigation against the QLD cop.

You have to agree, 2000 common assaults against the people of QLD by cops is unacceptable and that does not include 'accidental' killings such as this one.

If they can't do the job properly then leave and find an easier one.

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mavisdavis

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #25 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 8:20am

The over use of force by Police is, in the vast majority, the result of Police panic, rather than Police sadism. As long as unsuitable people are allowed into this job, there will be a high incidence of this type on incident. Unsuitable Police officers who "back up" real Police officers, place extra load on the real Police, byy the knowledge that they are worse than useless.

It`s time to engage real police .

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 118248 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Man killed "for his own safety" Reply #26 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 8:35am Looks like the Police can get away with murder if they say sorry. Still - I wouldn't want to be a cop having to put up with scum every day.
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BigOl64

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Re: Man killed "for his own safety"
Reply #27 - Mar 12^th, 2011 at 7:44am

Someone needs to be re-issued with a Nurf Tazer and a Nurf Gun; friggen clown! Angry

Might have to point out to him that being hit with a 9mm is pretty painful too.

A police officer tasered a north Queensland man up to 28 times because he believed the device, which emits a shock of 50,000 volts, did not cause pain, a coronial inquest has heard.

Senior Constable Craig Myles told the inquest into the death in custody of Antonio Galeano he used the Taser repeatedly because it was not having the desired effect on the 39-year-old.

However, he said he believed the device was designed to incapacitate but not hurt a person.

"I didn't think it was hurting him," he told the inquest in Townsville.

Sen Const Myles said he had seen volunteers tasered during his training with the device but was under the impression it did not cause pain.

"Some of them (the volunteers) screamed out and some said it didn't feel great... but I thought it just incapacitated the person," he said.

The officer told the inquest he remembered using the Taser eight times against Mr Galeano but conceded it was possible he deployed it 28 times - as data recorded by the device suggested.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cop-who-fired-taser-thought-device-was-harmless-20110311-1br21.html

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