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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz... (Read 5855 times)
Foolosophy
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:36pm
 
Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2010 at 9:14pm:
Climate science is statistics. Nothing more, nothing less.



not all aspects are

Quantum Physics is purely stochastic in nature - nothing deterministic about it at all and yet it pervades everyday life and has been verified experimentally over and over again.

Predicting a local weather event and analysing general climate conditions in a specific region of the planet are two very different animals.
Weather does not equate to Climate
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« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:42pm by Foolosophy »  
 
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Foolosophy
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #1 - Mar 9th, 2011 at 11:08pm
 
AGW Denialists like to cherry pick data to suit their propaganda based and fossil fuel industry funded models

Take for example the classic CHOPPED graph that shows a correlation between cyclical sun spot activity and global warming trends
...

And why does the graph mysteriously stop at around 1980? Well let's take a look at the rest of the data folks.
...

Oh dear there seems to be an upward global warming trend after 1980 but the solar radiation variation curve just doesn't match. We will have to just leave it out. Nobody will notice in the mass media. It's not as if we are publishing the first propaganda graph in a peer reviewed scientific journal
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Soren
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #2 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 12:01pm
 
...
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Soren
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #3 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 12:04pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:36pm:
Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2010 at 9:14pm:
Climate science is statistics. Nothing more, nothing less.



not all aspects are

Quantum Physics is purely stochastic in nature - nothing deterministic about it at all and yet it pervades everyday life and has been verified experimentally over and over again.

Predicting a local weather event and analysing general climate conditions in a specific region of the planet are two very different animals.
Weather does not equate to Climate



Quantum physics has what bearing on climate science?

The statistical aggregation of weather measurements is the climate. That is all it is. A rainy climate is one where you have to take a umbrella with you in the morning more often.

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muso
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #4 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 2:29pm
 
The graph is technically incorrect.... ok, it's entirely incorrect. For one thing, it implies that none of the water vapour is due to human activities.

If water vapour accounted for 95% of the greenhouse effect, that would imply a climate sensitivity of 19. If that were the case, we'd really be in trouble because the earth would be warming approximately six times faster than it would with the generally accepted figure of 3.  

Dare I ask for the reference?

Let me guess:

http://thepeoplescube.com/

My my - your only source of the current truth indeed.
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...
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Foolosophy
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #5 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:46pm
 
Soren wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 12:04pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:36pm:
Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2010 at 9:14pm:
Climate science is statistics. Nothing more, nothing less.



not all aspects are

Quantum Physics is purely stochastic in nature - nothing deterministic about it at all and yet it pervades everyday life and has been verified experimentally over and over again.

Predicting a local weather event and analysing general climate conditions in a specific region of the planet are two very different animals.
Weather does not equate to Climate



Quantum physics has what bearing on climate science?

The statistical aggregation of weather measurements is the climate. That is all it is. A rainy climate is one where you have to take a umbrella with you in the morning more often.


Glad you cleared that up

Obviously you lack a basic scientific grounding or training

(Do you know what changes in average global temperature is required in order to trigger an ice age or indeed a major ice melt phase on the earth? - didnt think so. If we burnt ALL the known fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust how much of the atmospheric molecular oxygen content will be consumed? Both of these question are high school level chemistry and phsyics questions. 5 marks each you have 30 minutes)
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #6 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:55pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:46pm:
Soren wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 12:04pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:36pm:
Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2010 at 9:14pm:
Climate science is statistics. Nothing more, nothing less.



not all aspects are

Quantum Physics is purely stochastic in nature - nothing deterministic about it at all and yet it pervades everyday life and has been verified experimentally over and over again.

Predicting a local weather event and analysing general climate conditions in a specific region of the planet are two very different animals.
Weather does not equate to Climate



Quantum physics has what bearing on climate science?

The statistical aggregation of weather measurements is the climate. That is all it is. A rainy climate is one where you have to take a umbrella with you in the morning more often.


Glad you cleared that up

Obviously you lack a basic scientific grounding or training

(Do you know what changes in average global temperature is required in order to trigger an ice age or indeed a major ice melt phase on the earth? - didnt think so. If we burnt ALL the known fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust how much of the atmospheric molecular oxygen content will be consumed? Both of these question are high school level chemistry and phsyics questions. 5 marks each you have 30 minutes)



Isn't the answer to how much "how much of the atmospheric molecular oxygen content will be consumed?" pretty much zero?? since Co2 is consumed by plants to PRODUCE oxygen....

After all, isn't the equation sort of 'more Co2 = more plants and MORE plants = more O2 produced???'

Unless of course you're using the 'AGW' formula, which runs something "more Co2 = massive poisoning of everything'???

In which case your screen name is 'true'...
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« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2011 at 4:02pm by gizmo_2655 »  

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Foolosophy
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #7 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 4:43pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:55pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:46pm:
Soren wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 12:04pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:36pm:
Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2010 at 9:14pm:
Climate science is statistics. Nothing more, nothing less.



not all aspects are

Quantum Physics is purely stochastic in nature - nothing deterministic about it at all and yet it pervades everyday life and has been verified experimentally over and over again.

Predicting a local weather event and analysing general climate conditions in a specific region of the planet are two very different animals.
Weather does not equate to Climate



Quantum physics has what bearing on climate science?

The statistical aggregation of weather measurements is the climate. That is all it is. A rainy climate is one where you have to take a umbrella with you in the morning more often.


Glad you cleared that up

Obviously you lack a basic scientific grounding or training

(Do you know what changes in average global temperature is required in order to trigger an ice age or indeed a major ice melt phase on the earth? - didnt think so. If we burnt ALL the known fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust how much of the atmospheric molecular oxygen content will be consumed? Both of these question are high school level chemistry and phsyics questions. 5 marks each you have 30 minutes)



Isn't the answer to how much "how much of the atmospheric molecular oxygen content will be consumed?" pretty much zero?? since Co2 is consumed by plants to PRODUCE oxygen....

After all, isn't the equation sort of 'more Co2 = more plants and MORE plants = more O2 produced???'

Unless of course you're using the 'AGW' formula, which runs something "more Co2 = massive poisoning of everything'???

In which case your screen name is 'true'...


Did you understand the question?

Do you know why the molecular Oxygen level in todays atmosphere is about 21%?

How did it get to that level and WHY?

How is the fossil fuel reserve related to the O2 level in the earths atmosphere?

As a greedy species we have burnt less than 1% of the total fossil fuel reserves on this planet

If we buirn approx 5% of the fossil fuel reserves we would ramp up the atmospheric CO2 level to approx 1% (or 10,000 ppmv)

Under those CO2 levels the earths average surface temperature would increase to about the boiling point of water (~100degC)

although we would vanish from the scene well before that.

So my question to you is HOW MUCH FOSSIL FUEL DO YOU WISH TO BURN AND WHAT CO2 LEVEL IN THE EARTHS ATMOSPHERE ARE YOU WILLING TO TOLERATE BEFORE YOU FRY OR MELT?

(or another way of posing that question is "why are you willing to cook your future progeny and relatives?")
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #8 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 4:49pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 4:43pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:55pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:46pm:
Soren wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 12:04pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:36pm:
Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2010 at 9:14pm:
Climate science is statistics. Nothing more, nothing less.



not all aspects are

Quantum Physics is purely stochastic in nature - nothing deterministic about it at all and yet it pervades everyday life and has been verified experimentally over and over again.

Predicting a local weather event and analysing general climate conditions in a specific region of the planet are two very different animals.
Weather does not equate to Climate



Quantum physics has what bearing on climate science?

The statistical aggregation of weather measurements is the climate. That is all it is. A rainy climate is one where you have to take a umbrella with you in the morning more often.


Glad you cleared that up

Obviously you lack a basic scientific grounding or training

(Do you know what changes in average global temperature is required in order to trigger an ice age or indeed a major ice melt phase on the earth? - didnt think so. If we burnt ALL the known fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust how much of the atmospheric molecular oxygen content will be consumed? Both of these question are high school level chemistry and phsyics questions. 5 marks each you have 30 minutes)



Isn't the answer to how much "how much of the atmospheric molecular oxygen content will be consumed?" pretty much zero?? since Co2 is consumed by plants to PRODUCE oxygen....

After all, isn't the equation sort of 'more Co2 = more plants and MORE plants = more O2 produced???'

Unless of course you're using the 'AGW' formula, which runs something "more Co2 = massive poisoning of everything'???

In which case your screen name is 'true'...


Did you understand the question?

Do you know why the molecular Oxygen level in todays atmosphere is about 21%?

How did it get to that level and WHY?

How is the fossil fuel reserve related to the O2 level in the earths atmosphere?

As a greedy species we have burnt less than 1% of the total fossil fuel reserves on this planet

If we buirn approx 5% of the fossil fuel reserves we would ramp up the atmospheric CO2 level to approx 1% (or 10,000 ppmv)

Under those CO2 levels the earths average surface temperature would increase to about the boiling point of water (~100degC)

although we would vanish from the scene well before that.

So my question to you is HOW MUCH FOSSIL FUEL DO YOU WISH TO BURN AND WHAT CO2 LEVEL IN THE EARTHS ATMOSPHERE ARE YOU WILLING TO TOLERATE BEFORE YOU FRY OR MELT?


And what effect will 'burning fossil fuel and adding Co2' actually have???

Co2 is used by plants to produce oxygen.....so more Co2 = more Oxygen from plants...
Simple isn't it???

And NO Co2 level will make us 'BURN'....Only complete morons think so...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Foolosophy
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #9 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 4:58pm
 
Gizmo,
Can I ask what your scientific background is exaclty?

(just wondering whether you inderstand the difference between the dynamic Carbon cycle that is essentially biologically based and the naturally sequestered and STABLE/STATIC carbon in the earths crust)
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Foolosophy
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #10 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 5:11pm
 
Gizmo is having a bit of difficulty with that high school level science project.

I may have to think up of a more simpler Primary school level scientific question.

I will really have to dig very deep into my library now - this is far too much work for a long weekend

Oh bugger it
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Soren
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #11 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 7:06pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 4:58pm:
Gizmo,
Can I ask what your scientific background is exaclty?

(just wondering whether you inderstand the difference between the dynamic Carbon cycle that is essentially biologically based and the naturally sequestered and STABLE/STATIC carbon in the earths crust)



That is precisely the sort of question the pope asked Giordano Bruno -what are your quals to argue?


Or as AGW alarmists are asking everywhere - why don't they believe us?
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Soren
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #12 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 7:17pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 5:11pm:
Gizmo is having a bit of difficulty with that high school level science project.

I may have to think up of a more simpler Primary school level scientific question.

I will really have to dig very deep into my library now - this is far too much work for a long weekend

Oh bugger it



Progressives have buggered up education to the point where the population is too stupid to believe the "settled science". What to do?
Step forward snake oil merchants (Gore, Flannery, Garnaut, Combet) who nevertheless want to present scientific arguments nobody understand for taxing the great unwashed, dumbed-down populace.
Now they are wringing their hands and knotting their brows - they are concerned.
The great unwashed can see the one argument they have heard many times before, in all sorts of contexts before - more tax.The progressives have the same solutiion to very problem. More tax. SO the great unwashed rightly say - go get ****ed (not knowing the mathematical formula for it, they speak plainly).




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Soren
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #13 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 7:32pm
 
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 3:46pm:
Soren wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 12:04pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:36pm:
Soren wrote on May 2nd, 2010 at 9:14pm:
Climate science is statistics. Nothing more, nothing less.



not all aspects are

Quantum Physics is purely stochastic in nature - nothing deterministic about it at all and yet it pervades everyday life and has been verified experimentally over and over again.

Predicting a local weather event and analysing general climate conditions in a specific region of the planet are two very different animals.
Weather does not equate to Climate



Quantum physics has what bearing on climate science?

The statistical aggregation of weather measurements is the climate. That is all it is. A rainy climate is one where you have to take a umbrella with you in the morning more often.


Glad you cleared that up

Obviously you lack a basic scientific grounding or training

(Do you know what changes in average global temperature is required in order to trigger an ice age or indeed a major ice melt phase on the earth? - didnt think so. If we burnt ALL the known fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust how much of the atmospheric molecular oxygen content will be consumed? Both of these question are high school level chemistry and phsyics questions. 5 marks each you have 30 minutes)



Look, piling on the stupidity won't help you.

Climate science is the statistical analysis of the weather.  Climate science has abolutely no data other than measurements of various aspects of the weather. Getting all po-faced and snooty about high school science will not disguise your inability to think.



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Foolosophy
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Re: The atmosphere, warming, and all that jazz...
Reply #14 - Mar 12th, 2011 at 9:02pm
 
Soren wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 7:06pm:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 12th, 2011 at 4:58pm:
Gizmo,
Can I ask what your scientific background is exaclty?

(just wondering whether you inderstand the difference between the dynamic Carbon cycle that is essentially biologically based and the naturally sequestered and STABLE/STATIC carbon in the earths crust)



That is precisely the sort of question the pope asked Giordano Bruno -what are your quals to argue?


Or as AGW alarmists are asking everywhere - why don't they believe us?


My my, you are a sensitive lot you AGW DENIALIST priests (incidentally the Pope doesnt refute the high school level science that underpinns AGW)

There is no argument in the Scientific community concerning the fact that human activites such as fossil fuel combustion and deforestation are driving CO2 levels upwards and thus warming the planet.

Now that we have established that you have no or minimal exposure to anything remotely resembling science (or at least you are secretly hiding your climatology PhD) I do have one further question for you entertain.

How many times did you vote for John Howard?
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