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Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax (Read 4087 times)
Andrei.Hicks
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Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Mar 1st, 2011 at 10:22am
 
CARBON TAX CATCHES BUSINESSES UNAWARE

ALAN KOHLER, PRESENTER: Prime Minister Julia Gillard's announcement this week that her Government would be imposing a tax on carbon from July 1 next year caught business unawares and led to complaints it had been left on the sidelines as the politicians thrashed out a political deal. The scheme is intended to start with a tax before converting to an emissions trading system over the next five years. Among the most unimpressed are the steel makers who are already doing it tough at the moment.

Here is Bluescope Steel CEO Paul O'Malley.

ALAN KOHLER: Paul O'Malley when you announced a $46 million first-half loss this week, you said to the analysts that being a steel maker in Australia at the moment is a tough gig. Does a carbon tax make it an impossible gig?

PAUL O'MALLEY, CEO, BLUESCOPE STEEL: It makes it an even tougher gig. I think in manufacturing in Australia with a high Aussie dollar, parts of the economy in recession so low demand, and steel making being difficult, more costs being thrown at us by the Government just really do put a bit more pressure on the business than we'd like to have.

ALAN KOHLER: But they say they will compensate you. All the money will go back into trade-exposed industries like yours to compensate. Don't you trust that compensation process?

PAUL O'MALLEY: Fundamentally, imports will get a free ride, and Australian manufacturing will be taxed, and there will absolutely be leakage because I don't think we have a commitment to carbon neutrality.

ALAN KOHLER: When you say we don't have a commitment to carbon neutrality, do you mean in Australia or the world?

PAUL O'MALLEY: Oh in Australia. I think to really reduce greenhouse emissions we have to reduce global emissions. I think if you look at the experience in Europe, production emissions are flat since 1990, so Europeans are claiming victory, but carbon consumption has increased 47 per cent.

So there has been a hollowing out of manufacturing in Europe and a moving or a hiding of that carbon overseas. I think if the same program is put in place in Australia, effectively you're assuming that policy is that they don't want manufacturing in Australia.

ALAN KOHLER: But your problems are all about, at the moment, high iron ore prices and coal prices making your margin disappear, isn't that right? I mean you've had basically a $250 million disappearance of spread in the latest year because of iron ore and coal. In that context, isn't the carbon tax relatively marginal?

PAUL O'MALLEY: I think from a macro perspective, we've been very clear to say the high Australian dollar - if we were at 80 cents rather than parity, our annual profit would be up $200 million. So there's no doubt that the high Australian dollar is difficult. We have to deal with that.

Raw material costs cost us $2.5 billion today: eight years ago, $400 million, so there is no doubt that we are supporting a significant value transfer to the raw material supplies.

From a macro policy perspective in Australia, we are all riding on the back of resources at the moment, but if you're in education, tourism, manufacturing, the high Aussie dollar and high interest rates are making it tough. Those parts of the economy are in recession.

In that framework, you would expect policy to say we need to ensure that we have more than a resources economy when the boom breaks. Throwing a carbon tax on top of that basically says 'No we don't want to be anything but a resources economy'.

ALAN KOHLER: But I suppose the question is, even if whether there's a carbon tax or not, if the Australian dollar stays at parity and the iron ore and coal prices stay where they are, are you going to be able to survive as a steelmaker?

PAUL O'MALLEY: I think through the cycle we've got a great business and a very good business model. But if you've got policy settings and macro factors that make it harder for manufacturing in Australia, there is no doubt that things are going to be tough anyway.

ALAN KOHLER: Do you actually make money on a tonne of steel you produce at Port Kembla?

PAUL O'MALLEY: So in the last half our industrial business at Port Kembla lost $100 million. In the last quarter of fiscal year 10, we made a couple of 100 million dollars. So as steel prices go up, which they are at the moment - steel prices have increased $250 to $300 dollars in the last four months - we can start to make money again.

But an incremental cost, which could be material. If you take one part of the policy, which is that there's no assistance for industry, we'd be paying an extra $300 million a year. That is clearly economic vandalism. It clearly says we don't want manufacturing in Australia.

Under the CPRS regime, what the policy said was 'We would prefer steel to be imported with the carbon produced overseas than produced domestically'. And that's the issue. It is unfair, and it basically says 'We don't want manufacturing in Australia'.

ALAN KOHLER: So under the CPRS, would it have resulted in the closure of Australian steel making?

PAUL O'MALLEY: I think under the current environment with the CPRS, you have to look at the long-term and see, to your question, is steel making viable in Australia?

You also have to look at the intent of the policymakers to determine whether they want to support manufacturing in Australia. There is a huge question mark on that at the moment.

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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #1 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 10:24am
 

I've just spent the week talking to investors. They are aghast at the policy settings that we are being faced with and the additional costs, including the fact that we have to deal with a high Aussie dollar.

So the policy framework at the moment is wrong. It seems to be captured by people who don't care whether there are manufacturing jobs in Australia, and you just wonder whether there is an anti-manufacturing focus in Australia and that people want jobs to go offshore.

ALAN KOHLER: Do you think there is?

PAUL O'MALLEY: I think there is at the moment, absolutely. I think that there's a lack of trust between government and business. I think there's poor communication between government and business, and I think things that appear simple to investors and to ourselves are completely discounted from a government perspective. So you do question the sustainability of manufacturing in Australia.

ALAN KOHLER: But does business have to take some responsibility for that? I mean, is it all about the politicians not trusting business, or have business done something to contribute to that?

PAUL O'MALLEY: Well, I think from a manufacturing perspective we've got the support of a great community in the Illawarra and at Western Port in Victoria. We participate very well within the community. We keep our markets, investors, communities informed.

I've spent an inordinate amount of time going backwards and forwards between Canberra and Melbourne and Sydney over the last few years, articulating the detail that Bluescope faces under a CPRS. I don't think we could have been any more transparent. We've offered to have our information audited, but there's complete ignorance, or they don't want to listen to what we're saying.

And I don't know why, but I think it's politics. I think it's economic vandalism, and I think the issue is that the aspiration of reducing carbon is very important, but the detail of the legislation doesn't actually achieve that as it pertains to steel manufacturing in Australia.

ALAN KOHLER: Well, I was going to ask you - do you actually think something needs to be done about greenhouse gas?

PAUL O'MALLEY: Oh absolutely. I've got four young kids. My wife and kids want me as a CEO of a manufacturing company to reduce our carbon emissions. As a company we are doing that.

But to make steel - you cannot make steel through the blast furnace technology without emitting carbon, whether it's made in Australia, whether it's made in Korea, Taiwan, China or Japan. Those producers send steel to Australia and compete with us. They are emitting carbon, and on average we're more efficient in producing steel with less carbon than those companies that import into Australia. So if you shut us down, you don't actually reduce the amount of carbon because steel will still come into Australia. That's the bit that doesn't make sense.

ALAN KOHLER: But are you saying that Australia can't actually have a price on carbon before those other countries?

PAUL O'MALLEY: I think there's fundamentally an issue for manufacturing that says that if you're an exporter and compete with imports, you must tax imports if you're going to tax the local manufacturing business. Not to tax imports says that you would prefer the steel to be produced overseas. That does not make sense.

In relation to energy, there is absolutely an argument that says there needs to be a carbon price so we can have natural gas base load generation in Australia, because no-one's going to build new coal fired generation because it's not going to make sense and it's too carbon intensive, but you need a price signal for natural gas.

So I think a carbon tax around energy is a really good thing to do at the moment and will have a big effect in reducing carbon. Taxing steel simply to move it offshore will actually increase global carbon emissions. That doesn't make sense.

ALAN KOHLER: Yeah, but the problem is that the growth in carbon emissions is now transferring to resource industries, resource extraction industries - coal and natural gas, LNG. They're the ones that are responsible for the projected growth in carbon emissions.

PAUL O'MALLEY: It's really interesting. We're a country at the moment that is absolutely jumping up and down with glee because we're exporting carbon overseas. The carbon is being turned into steel and other products overseas, but we don't account for that carbon, and then we're importing the products back.

You know, there's a race to hide the carbon here, which I think is absolutely horrid. I think we need good policy around energy and carbon intensity in energy. I think we need practical policy that says that we have to have the lowest CO2 emissions in producing steel, but we shouldn't be hiding the carbon overseas.

ALAN KOHLER: Thanks for joining us, Paul O'Malley.

PAUL O'MALLEY: Thanks very much, Alan.

http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/content/2011/s3150004.htm
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #2 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 10:35am
 
If Bluescope AND Alcoa go offshore -  Australia will be stuffed,  pollution will NOT be reduced, merely moved,  and steel etc will be produced in countries that have no interest in reducing carbon.

I posted the following  elsewhere slightly earlier . 


Reply #377 - Today at 10:16am      I have just heard that Alcoa will move offshore if the carbon tax impacts heavily on them.    That would absolutely decimate towns like Portland where the smelter is the main provider of jobs.

And it  won't lessen world wide carbon pollution,  it will just move it to another location.

Labor is being blackmailed by the Greens .

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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #3 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 10:37am
 

Quote:
............If you take one part of the policy, which is that there's no assistance for industry, we'd be paying an extra $300 million a year.
That is clearly economic vandalism. It clearly says we don't want manufacturing in Australia.

Under the CPRS regime, what the policy said was 'We would prefer steel to be imported with the carbon produced overseas than produced domestically'.
And that's the issue. It is unfair, and it basically says 'We don't want manufacturing in Australia'.............

............But to make steel - you cannot make steel through the blast furnace technology without emitting carbon, whether it's made in Australia, whether it's made in Korea, Taiwan, China or Japan.
Those producers send steel to Australia and compete with us.
They are emitting carbon, and on average we're more efficient in producing steel with less carbon than those companies that import into Australia.
So if you shut us down, you don't actually reduce the amount of carbon because steel will still come into Australia.
That's the bit that doesn't make sense. ..............
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #4 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:06am
 
THE world's biggest mining company, BHP Billiton, is urging the Gillard government to impose a tax on carbon before any international agreement.

This is in order to protect Australia's long-term economic interests.

Mr Kloppers's call for a carbon tax undermines the passionate objections of Tony Abbott to setting a price on carbon before there is a global consensus.

"We do believe that such a global initiative will eventually come and, when it does, Australia will need to have acted ahead of it to maintain its competitiveness,"
Mr Kloppers told a packed Australian British Chamber of Commerce lunch in Sydney.

"Carbon emissions need to have a cost impact in order to cause the consumer and companies to change behaviour and favour low-carbon alternatives.

"We all recognise this is a politically charged subject. No government relishes telling people that things need to cost more


http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/bhp-boss-marius-kloppers-its-time-for-carbon-tax...
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #5 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:30am
 
But to make steel - you cannot make steel through the blast furnace technology without emitting carbon, whether it's made in Australia, whether it's made in Korea, Taiwan, China or Japan. Those producers send steel to Australia and compete with us. They are emitting carbon, and on average we're more efficient in producing steel with less carbon than those companies that import into Australia. So if you shut us down, you don't actually reduce the amount of carbon because steel will still come into Australia. That's the bit that doesn't make sense


++++++++++++++++++


I think THIS more than anything underlines the nonsensical folly of it all.

It remind me of what we do in accounting to report a profit. We move items to other areas.
I know it made a loss, the CFO knows it made a loss, deep down the analysts know it made a loss but we all talk about a profit.

It's the same here, we'd allow carbon emitters to import into Australia and yet curtail Australian businesses from doing the same process?

What do we achieve?

Well we push it offshore. How is that affecting world emissions??

It's not.

Madness and it reeks of well, any dealing I have ever had with a Government or public sector.

Smoke and mirrors.

And they call us Accountants bad?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #6 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:33am
 
In fairness and interests of related party views and all that I will declare I am a shareholder in both BHP Billiton and Bluescope Steel.

(Yep as well as Monstanto too Buzz  Smiley )
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #7 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:39am
 
"It remind me of what we do in accounting to report a profit. We move items to other areas.
I know it made a loss, the CFO knows it made a loss, deep down the analysts know it made a loss but we all talk about a profit."

What an interesting comment. Reminds me of another argument I read, about government debt.

You argue about carbon emmisions as if you believe that they are a problem hicks, isn't that sort of contradictory?
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #8 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:40am
 
Please delete wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:39am:
"It remind me of what we do in accounting to report a profit. We move items to other areas.
I know it made a loss, the CFO knows it made a loss, deep down the analysts know it made a loss but we all talk about a profit."

What an interesting comment. Reminds me of another argument I read, about government debt.

You argue about carbon emmisions as if you believe that they are a problem hicks, isn't that sort of contradictory?


I've always said, in every argument on the subject, that carbon emissions are a problem and affecting climate change.

I am not a climate change denier and never have been.

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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:44am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:40am:
Please delete wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:39am:
"It remind me of what we do in accounting to report a profit. We move items to other areas.
I know it made a loss, the CFO knows it made a loss, deep down the analysts know it made a loss but we all talk about a profit."

What an interesting comment. Reminds me of another argument I read, about government debt.

You argue about carbon emmisions as if you believe that they are a problem hicks, isn't that sort of contradictory?


I've always said, in every argument on the subject, that carbon emissions are a problem and affecting climate change.

I am not a climate change denier and never have been.



Yes, I recall that you consistently argue that we may as well do nothing, since (in your opinion) China & India will not be stopping their march to full industrialization.

You can't see the advantage? If western nations reduce emmisions overall by 20 units, and China & India increase theirs by ONLY 20 units, we slow the effects. Is that so wrong to you?
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:48am
 
Please delete wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:44am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:40am:
Please delete wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:39am:
"It remind me of what we do in accounting to report a profit. We move items to other areas.
I know it made a loss, the CFO knows it made a loss, deep down the analysts know it made a loss but we all talk about a profit."

What an interesting comment. Reminds me of another argument I read, about government debt.

You argue about carbon emmisions as if you believe that they are a problem hicks, isn't that sort of contradictory?


I've always said, in every argument on the subject, that carbon emissions are a problem and affecting climate change.

I am not a climate change denier and never have been.



Yes, I recall that you consistently argue that we may as well do nothing, since (in your opinion) China & India will not be stopping their march to full industrialization.

You can't see the advantage? If western nations reduce emmisions overall by 20 units, and China & India increase theirs by ONLY 20 units, we slow the effects. Is that so wrong to you?



In 2007, China's emissions increases alone were FIVE TIMES the amount of all the emissions reductions of the Kyoto Protocol countries added together.

Do you see the folly of us shooting ourselves in the foot whilst allowing those two international environmental terrorists to pollute wantonly.

India grew their emissions by over 58% in the last decade alone.

They have said they regard reducing poverty as a higher goal than addressing their growing emissions.

So can I ask you - why do you think we should reduce ours but yet not cap them to the same levels?
Why should they get away with it? I am not in the business of feeling sorry for countries.

You address the problem or you don't.
There is no room for compassion for others.
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #11 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:50am
 
Please delete wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:44am:
If western nations reduce emmisions overall by 20 units, and China & India increase theirs by ONLY 20 units, we slow the effects. Is that so wrong to you?



Do you really not see the problem in that statement??

Why are we handing out Get out of Jail Free cards to two of three worst polluters on the planet?
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #12 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:53am
 
Because we need them, and becasue the genie is out of the bottle.

Who made China so powerful? We did.

You try and stop them industrializing. Since they will, we have only one choice - work with them.

You seem to take the attitude that if they don't, we shouldn't either, which is a recipe for disaster.

Who is the third big emitter?
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #13 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:55am
 
"but yet not cap them to the same levels?"

How do you do that? I've asked you this several times, and never got an answer.
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Re: Bluescope Steel CEO on Carbon Tax
Reply #14 - Mar 1st, 2011 at 12:22pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:50am:
Please delete wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 11:44am:
If western nations reduce emmisions overall by 20 units, and China & India increase theirs by ONLY 20 units, we slow the effects. Is that so wrong to you?



Do you really not see the problem in that statement??

Why are we handing out Get out of Jail Free cards to two of three worst polluters on the planet?





Only an accountant could skew figures in that manner
China has over
SIXTY THREE TIMES
the population of Australia
India, almost,
FIFTY SEVEN TIMES


To suggest that Australia's emissions should be compared to EITHER is
 
LAUGHABLE



Of COURSE they are larger, as a combined total
Proportionally, they are MUCH lower






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