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'Worst ever' property dive after disasters (Read 35869 times)
Sir lastnail
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #225 - Mar 8th, 2011 at 10:14pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 8th, 2011 at 10:04pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 8th, 2011 at 8:55pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 8th, 2011 at 2:12pm:
LOL! Ah yes. Okkkkayyyy.


here it is http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20110308/why-property-investing-is-for-mugs.html

what is wrong with what he says in particular the bit about property never going down but every other investment does ??

Lisa, just because you don't want property to go down doesn't mean that it won't.


Last Nail .. it has nothing at all to do with that.

The guy responsible for that publication has a questionable reputation/vested interest in what he is pushing.

And he talks a lot of sh.it too.

PLEASE tell me you're not RELYING on what he says.


Well I'd believe him before I believe the rubbery figures from the REIV which has a much bigger vested interest don't you think.

Sure this guy has a vested interests in the share market but is telling the truth when he says the property market is no different than any other markets when it comes to boom and bust. Just look at the many countries which have had property busts. Surely you are not going to tell me that Australia is somehow excluded from the normal market forces which is essentially the behaviour of a large group of people who behave irrationally ??

A lot of these property spruikers are just like crabs. They come in with the tide, dry up in the sun and die, and then get swept out with the tide  never to be seen again Wink Free financial advice always worth what you pay for it Wink
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #226 - Mar 9th, 2011 at 6:55am
 
To borrow someone's words from another forum:

It is simple maths people… You cant defy the laws of gravity forever!!!!

3% above inflation for 100 years means that in 100 years house prices will be about 19 times higher than they are now in real terms. That is a $500,000 house renting for $500 per week will be 9.5 million and only renting for $500 per week.

Logic people please!!!!!

If you stretch your arguments out over a longer time frame, you realise how ridiculous they are!!!!

Property has gone up at the rate above inflation for 2 main reasons.

1. Easy credit. There is only so much the average person on $65,000 per year can afford in rent and interest payments. If you think that the average person will be able to afford a $9.5 million dollar mortgage with a $40,000 deposit in 100 years then property prices will continue at 3% above inflation. If you are a rational person, you may consider that a bit of a stretch!!!!

2. More women working – double income. Until we allow multiple wives / or husbands in Australia, this factor in property price growth has a limit. Maybe people are thinking we might be able to follow India’s model and get the 5 year olds working to help pay of a bigger mortgage. The money has to come from somewhere!!!!
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #227 - Mar 9th, 2011 at 7:24am
 
Quote:
House prices on shaky foundations
Adam Schwab
March 9, 2011 - 6:41AM

     Comments 3

Auction clearance rates have fallen in Melbourne and Sydney, and slumped in Brisbane.

Auction clearance rates have fallen in Melbourne and Sydney, and slumped in Brisbane. Photo: Jessica Shapiro

It is not a question of if a housing correction will happen, but when, writes Adam Schwab.

Property prices down 24 per cent since 2008. Dublin? Las Vegas? No, try Noosa Heads.

Contrary to popular belief, not only is it possible for Australian housing prices to fall substantially but, in glamorous Noosa Heads on Queensland’s Sunshine Coast, they already have.

According to RP Data, house prices have fallen 18 per cent in Noosa since peaking in 2008, while apartment prices have slumped by 24 per cent. With 800 properties for sale, it is unlikely that prices will rebound anytime soon.
Advertisement: Story continues below

But it doesn’t seem as if the Australian capital cities are paying all that much attention. While prices haven’t risen since May last year, they haven’t fallen much either. This paper reported last week that capital cities are starting to lose a little bit of froth, with prices falling by 1.6 per cent nationally during January.

With auction clearance rates dropping to about 65 per cent in Melbourne and 55 per cent in Sydney (and far lower in Brisbane), and Reserve Bank interest rate rises never able to be ruled out, it is not a question of if a housing price correction will happen, but when.

Consider this: In 1994, average annual earnings for Australians were $28,080. In 2010, average annual earnings were $50,824. That is an increase of 80 per cent.

If people spent the same proportion of their income on their home in 2010 as they did in 1994, that would have resulted in an 80 per cent increase in house prices (subject to other factors being equal, such as number of people working in each household).

However, in 1994, the median property price was $148,800; in 2010, RP Data found that the median property price was about $450,000. That is an increase of more than 200 per cent.

Had property prices increased at the same level as wages, the median house price in Australia would be $267,000 – 41 per cent lower than they are. By contrast, had house prices simply tracked the consumer price index, using 1994 as a base, house prices should be $230,640 – or about 49 per cent lower than their current price.

These figures are not altogether different from the findings of the Economist magazine, which determined that house prices in Australia were overpriced by 56 per cent. This made ours the world’s most expensive market, on a price-to-rent comparison.

While housing bulls will point to a shortage of property, or rising incomes, the real reason for the rise is far more nefarious. Since 1994, the ratio of housing debt compared with housing assets has risen from 15.8 per cent to 28.7 per cent.  Even though house prices have increased, the increase in debt has been even greater. In fact, virtually all the out-performance in the housing market can be attributed not to people having more disposable income but, rather, to Australians borrowing more.

The Noosa experience has shown that Australian housing prices are not immune to basic laws of investment. As the price of an asset rises, its yield will fall. That means, to justify the higher price, the future income associated with that asset must also rise. That has not happened with housing.

This is because the increase in house prices since 1994 has not been driven by higher rentals (or higher household incomes), but rather, purchasers using more leverage to pay more for the same asset. While income from property has more closely tracked higher household earnings (as it should), the underlying asset has increased in price by a far greater extent. That is why net yields on housing in capital cities are about 2 per cent – far lower than the return one can receive in the bank.

As with the United States, the main culprits behind Australia's rapidly appreciating property prices have been mortgage lenders, who have effectively funded the boom.

Just in case you thought Australian banks had learnt their lesson, last week this country’s largest home lender, the Commonwealth Bank, announced that it would allow mortgage customers to borrow up to 95 per cent of the '‘value’' of a property, up from 90 per cent. This will have the dual effect of increasing the bank’s short-term profits (and ensuring its executives receive substantial bonuses) and further increasing the bank’s risk profile by exposing its balance sheet to even more over-priced residential housing.

An asset can be valued with reference to the income it generates, not by how much someone using mostly other people’s money is willing to pay. As many Australian property buyers will soon find out – price and value are two different concepts.

Adam Schwab is the author of Pigs at the Trough: Lessons from Australia’s Decade of Corporate Greed.


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/house-prices-on-shaky-foundati...

Seems to be a regular theme ATM
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #228 - Mar 9th, 2011 at 10:11am
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 7:24am:


looks like the banks are desperate to do anything to get the punters to borrow to buy a house. I thought the banks are tightening up on their lending practices. Soon they will be back to lending 105% of the loan again just like before !!

Also I believe the so called housing shortage myth is based on the number of homeless who aren't looking for a house to live in because they couldn't afford one anyway Smiley LOL
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #229 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 12:11pm
 
.. it is not a question of if a housing price correction will happen, but when.

- extract from the previous post/article with this link:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/house-prices-on-shaky-foundati...

I keep telling you Last Nail .. it's just going to be a correction/adjustment. Nothing more.
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #230 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 12:44pm
 
Just a slight adjustment nails....ask LJ Hooker, he'll tell you the same.
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #231 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 12:52pm
 
There's not a lot of booming.
................................................................

BOOMING house prices could trigger a mortgage crisis in Australia, a property researcher says.

The nation could face a sub-prime crisis like the one in the US that sparked the global financial crisis, said Brian Haratsis, chief economist at Macro Plan Australia.

He warned that without government intervention on house prices battlers at the bottom end of the market would be worst affected, the Herald-Sun reports.

He is also predicting at least two rate rises this year, pushing home loan interest rates as high as eight per cent for some punters and freezing the market.

"Australia is going to be extremely exposed between 2012-15 because people won't be able to afford to buy a house," he said.

Home loans, savings accounts and more

"A lot of people could wind up with negative equity and we could have a sub-prime issue on our hands."

He warns that all parts of the property market could feel the effects if another "Black Swan Event" like a market crash in China occurs.

Mr Haratsis has been monitoring the industry for 30 years and believes house prices are inflated by about 20 per cent at the moment.

He will be speaking at the first ever Australian Mortgage Conference in Sydney today, which will discuss this and other issues facing the lending market in the coming decade.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/money/property/soaring-house-prices-may-spark-mortgage-crisis-economist-brian-haratsis/story-e6frfmd0-1226018966994#ixzz1GA2yrfDk

.......................................................................

Will the government intervene again?
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #232 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 12:56pm
 
Here we go again. Help needed for battlers to buy houses they can't afford or more correctly translated as "estate agents" need help or market needs intervention to stop it from crashing Wink We have the most enviable economy in the world but battlers still need help to buy a house !! Haven't we heard all of this before Smiley LOL

http://www.news.com.au/money/property/soaring-house-prices-may-spark-mortgage-cr...

Quote:
Soaring house prices may spark mortgage crisis - economist Brian Haratsis

    * Economist warns of sub-prime crisis
    * "Market is inflated by about 20 per cent"
    * Predicts two rate rises this year

BOOMING house prices could trigger a mortgage crisis in Australia, a property researcher says.

The nation could face a sub-prime crisis like the one in the US that sparked the global financial crisis, said Brian Haratsis, chief economist at Macro Plan Australia.

He warned that without government intervention on house prices battlers at the bottom end of the market would be worst affected, the Herald-Sun reports.

He is also predicting at least two rate rises this year, pushing home loan interest rates as high as eight per cent for some punters and freezing the market.

"Australia is going to be extremely exposed between 2012-15 because people won't be able to afford to buy a house," he said.

"A lot of people could wind up with negative equity and we could have a sub-prime issue on our hands."

He warns that all parts of the property market could feel the effects if another "Black Swan Event" like a market crash in China occurs.

Mr Haratsis has been monitoring the industry for 30 years and believes house prices are inflated by about 20 per cent at the moment.

He will be speaking at the first ever Australian Mortgage Conference in Sydney today, which will discuss this and other issues facing the lending market in the coming decade.



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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #233 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:02pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 12:52pm:
There's not a lot of booming.

Will the government intervene again?


Yes what will it be this time. Quadrupling the first home buyers scam or let in any foreigners and non residents to buy up property even if they are criminals Wink LOL

If property is so rock solid like Lisa says it is then why the reliance on Government handouts to prop it up ?? Lets not prop it up and see if it lives up to its solid reputation Wink
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #234 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:08pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 12:11pm:
.. it is not a question of if a housing price correction will happen, but when.

- extract from the previous post/article with this link:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/house-prices-on-shaky-foundati...

I keep telling you Last Nail .. it's just going to be a correction/adjustment. Nothing more.


that's what they said before the dot com bust and US housing slump Wink
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #235 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:14pm
 
Quadrupling the first home buyers scam or let in any foreigners and non residents to buy up property even if they are criminals.

- Last Nail


These were definitely mistakes Last Nail. That's a fact. (Only Andrei seems to think the latter was a GOOD thing .. and only the GOOD Lord knows why.)

I find it difficult to believe that ANY future Federal govt in office will ever consider repeating these 2 mistakes again. These measures caused undue suffering for Aussies and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING at all to help them in terms of housing.

If anything .. these mistakes have contributed to and exacerbated the housing bubble we're seeing today.

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« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:28pm by Lisa Jones »  

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #236 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:21pm
 
If property is so rock solid like Lisa says it is then why the reliance on Government handouts to prop it up?

- Last Nail


Please refer to my previous post.

In essence, the situation may be summarized as follows:

When an incompetent Federal govt treats its residents like lab rats and stuffs up their environment (and thus lives) .. it then means they need to get back in to FIX things up again before they get voted out of office. Ya dig?
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« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:30pm by Lisa Jones »  

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #237 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:26pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 6th, 2011 at 8:50pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 6th, 2011 at 5:36pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 6th, 2011 at 5:29pm:
I am in favor of overseas investors being allowed to buy Australian property.

This is capital coming INTO the country.

Works for me.


Ok Andrei .. kindly tell us all how that works for you as an Australian citizen.

You have the floor.


You're competing against cashed up Asians who can access interest rates at half the rates that you and I can ... and it seems to somehow work for you.

By all means do tell us how this works for YOU! I know I am all ears.

Hopefully you will be able to let us know soon.


I note with interest that Andrei hasn't been able to respond in this topic ever since.
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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #238 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 2:03pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:14pm:
Quadrupling the first home buyers scam or let in any foreigners and non residents to buy up property even if they are criminals.

- Last Nail


These were definitely mistakes Last Nail. That's a fact. (Only Andrei seems to think the latter was a GOOD thing .. and only the GOOD Lord knows why.)

I find it difficult to believe that ANY future Federal govt in office will ever consider repeating these 2 mistakes again. These measures caused undue suffering for Aussies and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING at all to help them in terms of housing.

If anything .. these mistakes have contributed to and exacerbated the housing bubble we're seeing today.



I hate to say this but I don't think the libbos would have done such a stupid thing as what dudd did. They would have let it crash and then blame the GFC for it and no one would be the wiser and you wouldn't be paying so much for a joint now and having to compete with lots of cashed up chinese who have entered the country on mickey mouse business migration scams Sad

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Re:  'Worst ever' property dive after disasters
Reply #239 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 2:05pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 1:26pm:
I note with interest that Andrei hasn't been able to respond in this topic ever since.


he does that when the going gets tough and he pisses off and hopes that everyone forgets about what he has said Wink Or maybe he is busy flying his Walter Mitty hot air balloon and traveling around the world in 80 days Wink LOL

you've got to laugh at Andrei. He is a real character Wink LOL
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« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2011 at 6:51pm by Sir lastnail »  

"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995
 
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