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Racism vs Free Speech (Read 67593 times)
Equitist
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #225 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:32pm
 


I challenge anyone to try to prove that there hasn't been an exponential increase in the amount of divisive anti-Muslim rhetoric emanating from Western pollies and media outlets over the past decade...

The anti-Muslim propaganda was both a convenient way of justifying warmongering in the ME - and of scoring cheap political points on the part of right whinger pollies...

That approach works to quell discontent at home when the vilified 'enemy' is abroad - but the West's rabid push for 'globalisation' has changed all of that...

Nothing good could ever have come from taking such a divisive approach - and we have inevitably reached the point where we have a chicken-egg problem...

To undo the damage, there needs to be unequivocal top-down messages which promote mutual tolerance,empathy, trust and respect - and broad social cohesiveness and harmony...

These messages must come from political, business and community leaders - as well as parents!

For what should be obvious reasons, this will take a long time...

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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #226 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:36pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:28pm:
You state that you use stereotype as a useful tool in order to make sense of your world.

If this is the case .. then your interpretative tool is in fact misinterpreting the information you're receiving.

How? Stereotyping as an interpretative tool will only allow you to receive and understand part of the message.



I think you might have overlooked this, from my earlier post:
Quote:
Stereotyping is not evil, it is a useful tool for making sense of the world.   The problem arises when you allow the steroetype to be your ONLY judge.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #227 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:42pm
 
A stereotype is a standardized and simplified conception of a group/s based on some prior assumption/s.

That is your interpretative tool .. and that is how you are making sense of the world (given your above volunteered statement).

The moment you see just ONE person who fits that stereotype .. then that is all you need to FEED that stereotype .. and legitimise it.

I mentioned groups. The issue with stereotyping is that the process involves an ingroup and an outgroup.

The ingroup is seen as superior/normal whereas the outgroup is seen as inferior/abnormal.

Can you see now why stereotyping as an interpretative tool isn't helpful or useful?
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #228 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:46pm
 
Quote:
I mentioned groups. The issue with stereotyping is that the process involves an ingroup and an outgroup.


ahhh you mean like 'racists' and 'fine upstanding individuals'?  Right, gotcha.

Quote:
Can you see now why stereotype as an interpretative tool isn't helpful?



You're fooling yourself if you think you never stereotype.  You're actually doing it right now....but I won't judge you for it.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #229 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:50pm
 
Let's move on to your next statement ...

The problem arises when you allow the stereotype to be your ONLY judge. - Wesley

The problem arises the minute you allow stereotype as your interpretative tool .. into your tool box? Why? Because by it's very nature .. it defines your paradigm .. how you think/act/react.
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #230 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:56pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:50pm:
Let's move on to your next statement ...

The problem arises when you allow the stereotype to be your ONLY judge. - Wesley

The problem arises the minute you allow stereotype as your interpretative tool .. into your tool box? Why? Because by it's very nature .. it defines your paradigm .. how you think/act/react.



It's in EVERYONES 'toolbox'

EVERYONE, without exception.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #231 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:56pm
 
Stereotyping is not evil, it is a useful tool for making sense of the world.   The problem arises when you allow the stereotype to be your ONLY judge.

- Wesley


That is the statement you volunteered Wesley .. and that is the statement I've responded to. I responded to it in 2 parts as per the 2 sentences you constructed.

I'm not addressing everyone .. I am addressing you and what you have openly (and I believe honestly) have stated.

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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #232 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 6:00pm
 
Quote:
The ABC News magazine program 20/20 just had an interesting piece on the psychology of stereotypes. The main point was that all people have an underlying psychological architecture of stereotypes and that human beings are biologically set up to stereotype. To me, there are several important factors to go with any discussion of stereotypes.

First, how do stereotypes help us? Most of it can be viewed as the ability to quickly categorize people based on certain factors as a way to identify threats, friends, and other people that you can interact with socially. Furthermore, the mental energy it would take for each person you encounter to be processed from scratch without some of the shortcuts that stereotypes provide us would almost debilitate us and make life extremely difficult to navigate. Unfortunately, these networks can contain negative information associated with certain groups that we apply to individuals in those groups that do not actually possess those characteristics.

Second, understanding the stereotypes you hold of others is key in avoiding them getting in your way and resulting in discrimination, prejudice, and unfair assumptions. For exmaple, if you hold a view that ALL men or ALL women are prone to be unfaithful in relationships, then it is important acknowledge that you hold this belief on some level, reality test it, and avoid it becomming a problem that works unconsciously.

The overall message here is that we all have biases, assumptions, and stereotypes for all sorts of people: Caucasian, male, midwestern, tall, thin, pretty, uneducated, wealthy, dog owner, athletes, etc. Acknowledging that these exist, exploring their content, and working through any unfair elements can be a key part to becomming a more competent person socially and psychologically.




And heres the story they refer to:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2442521

familairise yourself.
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Axle
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #233 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 7:22pm
 
Yes, people can stereotype on lots of grounds but that does not mean that some have to be used or are helpful. Some are just plain wrong and cause more problems than they're worth. I don't need to be thinking of a person's "race" to judge whether they're hostile and mean me harm. I can quickly determine that from the body language, what they say, how they say it, when they say it and the nature of the situation.

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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #234 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 7:41pm
 
Axle wrote on Mar 3rd, 2011 at 7:22pm:
Yes, people can stereotype on lots of grounds but that does not mean that some have to be used or are helpful. Some are just plain wrong and cause more problems than they're worth. I don't need to be thinking of a person's "race" to judge whether they're hostile and mean me harm. I can quickly determine that from the body language, what they say, how they say it, when they say it and the nature of the situation.




Yah, but the subconscious is not quite so easily controlled as saying 'just don't do it'.  Your subconcious does all this 'nasty' stereotyping, whether you like it or not.
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Soren
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #235 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 10:25pm
 
Equitist wrote on Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:32pm:
I challenge anyone to try to prove that there hasn't been an exponential increase in the amount of divisive anti-Muslim rhetoric emanating from Western pollies and media outlets over the past decade...




I'll prove it to you:

There has been no exponential increase in the amount of divisive anti-Muslim rhetoric emanating from Western pollies and media outlets over the past decade because every politician or media commentator has been very carful to always say 'it's not Islam, it's the extremists'.


It's only in the last year or so, with the European electorates NOT buying this carefully made distinctions that that some politicins and media outlets are beginning to say that mebbe, just mebbe, you know.... gosh... how to put it?... Muslims seem to dominate the bad news section of the papers and it's news of Muslims behaving badly while shouting Allahu Akhbar. And that's just the bad news covering non-Muslim majority countries.

So all the politicians and media outlets have been very careful to make a distinctions for 10 or more years that is not borne out by the the evening news.



Here's your challenge: prove to me that the anti-western criminal activities and rhetoric of Muslims living in the west has not increased significantly in the past 10 years.

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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #236 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 10:35pm
 
Equitist wrote on Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:32pm:
To undo the damage, there needs to be unequivocal top-down messages which promote mutual tolerance,empathy, trust and respect - and broad social cohesiveness and harmony...




Unequivocal top-down message - that speaks to your totalitrian, Stalinist little soul, doesn't it?  Well, here's why your scheme is incoherent: is a dirty big example of stereotyping itself. But as always you are too dizzy to grasp that.


"The attempt to rid the world of stereotyping is as totalitarian as it is in theory incoherent: for of course it relies upon the stereotyping of stereotypers, namely all of us. Show me a man without stereotypes, and I will show you a man in a coma. But mere impossibility has never stopped intellectuals from proposing their schemes."

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/83711/sec_id/83711

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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #237 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 10:47pm
 


Over the past few weeks, in particular...Abbott, Morrison and Bernardi have been systematically inciting fear, resentment and hatred against Muslims and 'boat people'...

These men are in very powerful positions within our society, including as role models for our youth - and therefore they have a duty of care and responsibility to promote a positive community spirit...

Not only was their bigoted conduct morally repugnant to many, but it was also reckless and dangerous...


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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #238 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 10:49pm
 


Soren wrote on Mar 3rd, 2011 at 10:25pm:
Equitist wrote on Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:32pm:
I challenge anyone to try to prove that there hasn't been an exponential increase in the amount of divisive anti-Muslim rhetoric emanating from Western pollies and media outlets over the past decade...




I'll prove it to you:

There has been no exponential increase in the amount of divisive anti-Muslim rhetoric emanating from Western pollies and media outlets over the past decade because every politician or media commentator has been very carful to always say 'it's not Islam, it's the extremists'.


It's only in the last year or so, with the European electorates NOT buying this carefully made distinctions that that some politicins and media outlets are beginning to say that mebbe, just mebbe, you know.... gosh... how to put it?... Muslims seem to dominate the bad news section of the papers and it's news of Muslims behaving badly while shouting Allahu Akhbar. And that's just the bad news covering non-Muslim majority countries.

So all the politicians and media outlets have been very careful to make a distinctions for 10 or more years that is not borne out by the the evening news.



Here's your challenge: prove to me that the anti-western criminal activities and rhetoric of Muslims living in the west has not increased significantly in the past 10 years.




Like I said: chicken, egg!

All the more reason why our political 'leaders' must grow up and refrain from self-servingly-inciting religious and racial hatred...


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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #239 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 11:00pm
 
What nonsense - chicken and egg. You have no bloody idea beyond the cheap and shrill slogans.

You also seem to acquiesce in the increased criminal activity in western countries in the name of islam, as if it was justified or at least understandable to your mind. As if it was an understandable chicken. Or an egg.
What's the diff when you're spining' around all day long in progressive pap.



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