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Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain (Read 36585 times)
gizmo_2655
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #75 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 11:54am
 
____ wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 10:53am:
50 years, Atmospheric CO2 has increased about 65 ppm

Now, has this ever happened so fast before?

If not, then human population and human behaviour is the likely cause
... correct?



440 ppm, and world agriculture is likely to collapse. Lets all follow the denialists and play russian roulette.


Very good Greens, now what was the 'recorded' rate of increase at the beginning of the Sangamon interglacial, about 125,000 years ago???
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #76 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 12:02pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 11:54am:
____ wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 10:53am:
50 years, Atmospheric CO2 has increased about 65 ppm

Now, has this ever happened so fast before?

If not, then human population and human behaviour is the likely cause
... correct?



440 ppm, and world agriculture is likely to collapse. Lets all follow the denialists and play russian roulette.


Very good Greens, now what was the 'recorded' rate of increase at the beginning of the Sangamon interglacial, about 125,000 years ago???



Why do you require that considering if it doesn't work with your political view, that climate change is crap, you will deny the science.


We are on a path to 440 parts and higher. When will the denialist decide to pull their heads in ... when they are starving to death, within a short period of time?

Current Humans behaviour increases carbon pollution and the human population is exploding. Doesn't take a scientist to understand the consequences of this.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #77 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 12:32pm
 
____ wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 12:02pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 11:54am:
____ wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 10:53am:
50 years, Atmospheric CO2 has increased about 65 ppm

Now, has this ever happened so fast before?
If not, then human population and human behaviour is the likely cause
... correct?



440 ppm, and world agriculture is likely to collapse. Lets all follow the denialists and play russian roulette.


Very good Greens, now what was the 'recorded' rate of increase at the beginning of the Sangamon interglacial, about 125,000 years ago???



Why do you require that considering if it doesn't work with your political view, that climate change is crap, you will deny the science.

We are on a path to 440 parts and higher. When will the denialist decide to pull their heads in ... when they are starving to death, within a short period of time?

Current Humans behaviour increases carbon pollution and the human population is exploding. Doesn't take a scientist to understand the consequences of this.


Again, it depends on definition, doesn't it??

So do you mean Climate Change, or MAN-MADE Climate Change???
Because I believe in the former, but not the latter...oh and my views on the subject are NOT 'political'.


And I want to know, in answer to YOUR question..:

"Now, has this ever happened so fast before?
If not, then human population and human behaviour is the likely cause
... correct?"....
Of course it also follows that if it HAS happened as fast( or faster) before, then human population and behaviour can't be the cause
... correct? ....
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #78 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:05pm
 
You mean massive asteroids smacking into the planet disprove human caused climate change?


Loooooong bow you are pulling there.


meanwhile back to the graph, 330 ---> 380 ppm in 50 years is enough proof that whatever the cause, it is time for calculated action.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas and humans have upset this balance in the natural environment. Reducing the carbon greenhouse gas is a logical step alongside other actions like reducing human population growth.

The time for polluters and their hard right political allies to stop this greedy short term obstruction and think of the children.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #79 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:19pm
 
____ wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:05pm:
You mean massive asteroids smacking into the planet disprove human caused climate change?

Loooooong bow you are pulling there.


meanwhile back to the graph, 330 ---> 380 ppm in 50 years is enough proof that whatever the cause, it is time for calculated action.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas and humans have upset this balance in the natural environment. Reducing the carbon greenhouse gas is a logical step alongside other actions like reducing human population growth.

The time for polluters and their hard right political allies to stop this greedy short term obstruction and think of the children.


What asteroids???...I never mentioned asteroids..

How about just answering the question??

Was the rate of Co2 increase during the Sangamon interglacial, about 125,000 years ago, higher or lower than the 'current' rate of increase (1ppm per year)????

It's a straight YES or NO answer...
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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #80 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:20pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:19pm:
____ wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:05pm:
You mean massive asteroids smacking into the planet disprove human caused climate change?

Loooooong bow you are pulling there.


meanwhile back to the graph, 330 ---> 380 ppm in 50 years is enough proof that whatever the cause, it is time for calculated action.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas and humans have upset this balance in the natural environment. Reducing the carbon greenhouse gas is a logical step alongside other actions like reducing human population growth.

The time for polluters and their hard right political allies to stop this greedy short term obstruction and think of the children.


What asteroids???...I never mentioned asteroids..

How about just answering the question??

Was the rate of Co2 increase during the Sangamon interglacial, about 125,000 years ago, higher or lower than the 'current' rate of increase (1ppm per year)????

It's a straight YES or NO answer...



I'm looking forward to your answer woody.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #81 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:26pm
 
Gizmo, where is this question coming from? Where did YOU read about this Sangamon interglacial matter?

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gizmo_2655
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #82 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:39pm
 
Please delete wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:26pm:
Gizmo, where is this question coming from? Where did YOU read about this Sangamon interglacial matter?


Here and there on the net...

The Sangamon interglacial was the last 'warm period' before the last ice age (the last time the ice sheets covered the world)..we are currently in the Holocene Interglacial, which is a warm period after the last glaciation.....The Sangamon interglacial was the most recent previous time when similar conditions existed, since we are currently in an interglacial...Therefore, IF the rate of increase in Co2 (ppm/years) was markedly different 'then' to now...that would be a good indication that man IS affecting Climate Change...if it was close to the same rate (like +0.80 ppm/year), then man is NOT affecting the climate....

See, fairly simple, yes??

Oh the Eemian interglaical is the same thing as the Sangamon interglacial ..different names in different countries..
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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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mavisdavis
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #83 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:47pm
 
It appears to me that AGW worshipers rely largely on faith and convenient coincidence to justify their religion.  Greens, have you ever considered that the issue could be slightly more complex than a convenient graph and a couple of hockey sticks?

BTW, did you know that the big hair fashion caused Haley`s Comet to appear?
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #84 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:47pm
 
but the sangamon interglacial lasted thousands of years???!!!
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #85 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 2:29pm
 
Please delete wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:47pm:
but the sangamon interglacial lasted thousands of years???!!!



As has the Holocene interglacial...what's your point??

Greens_win made a claim that the rate of Co2 increase is higher now, than it's ever been in the past...I want him to prove that claim..


I KNOW he won't...and I also suspect he won't even contribute to this thread anymore...because he never does..Once he's been challenged he leaves and doesn't return...
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #86 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 2:56pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 2:29pm:
Please delete wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:47pm:
but the sangamon interglacial lasted thousands of years???!!!



As has the Holocene interglacial...what's your point??

Greens_win made a claim that the rate of Co2 increase is higher now, than it's ever been in the past...I want him to prove that claim..


I KNOW he won't...and I also suspect he won't even contribute to this thread anymore...because he never does..Once he's been challenged he leaves and doesn't return...


Well that's a stupid argument. But anything green argues is probably a bit stupid.

It certainly wasn't this rapid for the 15000 years of the sangamon.

The only way to answer your question would be to have the same sort of detailed records we have for the last 100 years. 50 year periods don't reflect themselves in the geologic record. Maybe ice cores, but talk abou a needle in a haystack. 

Did you notice that sea levels were 6m higher in the sangamon?
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #87 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 2:58pm
 
OK, you're talking about the BEGINNING of the sangamon. What time period?

Such a stupid argument. You find some esoteric bit of data, and demand someone refute it. FFS.

You sound like longweekend.
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #88 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 3:17pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 8:08am:
IF there isn't any proof that this hasn't happened before then AGW is NOT a viable concept...

Flawed how?? Is there one single part of current climate change that hasn't happened before??? No there's not....

So if the same actions have happened due to natural causes in the past, then there isn't any way say it's man caused THIS time...


Going back to the analogy it's the fact that the knife is in the chest and we know that if you are stabbed through the heart with a knife , your pulse was quite normal beforehand and no pulse after, then there is a 99%+ chance that it was the act of being stabbed through the heart that killed Colonel Mustard.

In the same way, we know that CO2 in the atmosphere causes the Greenhouse Effect (the CO2 molecule has the property of absorbing LW Infrared radiation etc). We know that the CO2 has been increasing as a result of activities such as cement manufacture and fossil fuel burning, and there is a 99% + chance that this is what is causing the increase in mean global temperatures.

Of course we know that colonels might have died from natural causes in the past, and we know that there have been perturbations of the climate in the past, but in both cases, the evidence is equally compelling.  
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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #89 - Feb 19th, 2011 at 3:22pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 2:29pm:
Please delete wrote on Feb 19th, 2011 at 1:47pm:
but the sangamon interglacial lasted thousands of years???!!!



As has the Holocene interglacial...what's your point??

Greens_win made a claim that the rate of Co2 increase is higher now, than it's ever been in the past...I want him to prove that claim..


I KNOW he won't...and I also suspect he won't even contribute to this thread anymore...because he never does..Once he's been challenged he leaves and doesn't return...



I've gone down that track in some detail previously on the Environment board.

There were probably occasions where temperature increase was just as rapid, but in each case we have causes, just as we have today, and the causes were different to today.  

What happened in the past under a totally different set of circumstances is a red herring.
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