Australian Politics Forum - Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain

gizmo_2655

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #45 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:32pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:16pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

Quote:

[b]This has never happened before!

And you're 5 billion years old, and KNOW this for certain???

I don't know about 5 billion years, to be honest. But I love how deniers will try to refute science that is available and provide NO EVIDENCE to the contrary.

YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it didn't happen??

No I don't know for certain that the Ice caps haven't melted many times in the past, or that some (or numerous) land areas haven't been flooded due to perfectly natural fluctuations in temperature and climate conditions....which is in fact the whole point to the argument..

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR AGREEING WITH ME..... Grin

Exactly right. So, would you rather just deny deny deny or listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise? No one, at least not me, is suggesting we go all out and call the end of the world, buit surely if YOU DON"T KNOW and SCIENCE is suggesting something is incredibly plausible we should look at it?

That and the fact that in the end it just make perfect sense for the future sustainability of not only this planet but the economy.

LOL no not really alevine, I ask perceptions fro 'proof' that the current conditions have never happened before, and YOU asked me for proof that it's 'never happened before'......which IS the same question.....so you stuffed up..

What you SHOULD have asked is "YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it did happen?? (before)"

To which I would have answered YES.....
Typos suck, don't they??

The problem with the idea of "listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise?" is that the science is doing JUST that.......suggesting..It's not, and cannot BE absolutely set in stone..Simply because there was no one there to observe it..there can't be any 'absolute, 100% proof'...simply because it's a guess....much like the idea of Atlantis, and alien visitations to the Incans and Lake Titicaca or the Nazca desert carvings.....They're 'suggestive', but NOT conclusive..

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« Last Edit: Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:41pm by gizmo_2655 »

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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mozzaok

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #46 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:34pm

Only deniers and morons would either misinterpret, or not understand the straightforward point you made, preceptions_now.

The greatest shame of the whole Global warming issue is that the extreme right of politics accepted the lobbying of the energy companies who engineered the denialist campaign, and now that campaign has taken on a life of its own, and otherwise reasonable people can just ignore and reject totally respected and credible scientific opinion, not because of any fault in the science, but based upon their political prejudices alone.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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perceptions_now

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #47 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:46pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:16pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

Quote:

[b]This has never happened before!

And you're 5 billion years old, and KNOW this for certain???

I don't know about 5 billion years, to be honest. But I love how deniers will try to refute science that is available and provide NO EVIDENCE to the contrary.

YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it didn't happen??

No I don't know for certain that the Ice caps haven't melted many times in the past, or that some (or numerous) land areas haven't been flooded due to perfectly natural fluctuations in temperature and climate conditions....which is in fact the whole point to the argument..

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR AGREEING WITH ME..... Grin

Exactly right. So, would you rather just deny deny deny or listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise? No one, at least not me, is suggesting we go all out and call the end of the world, buit surely if YOU DON"T KNOW and SCIENCE is suggesting something is incredibly plausible we should look at it?

That and the fact that in the end it just make perfect sense for the future sustainability of not only this planet but the economy.

LOL no not really alevine, I ask perceptions fro 'proof' that the current conditions have never happened before, and YOU asked me for proof that it's 'never happened before'......which IS the same question.....so you stuffed up..

What you SHOULD have asked is "YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it did happen?? (before)"

To which I would have answered YES.....
Typos suck, don't they??

The problem with the idea of "listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise?" is that the science is doing JUST that.......suggesting..It's not, and cannot BE absolutely set in stone..Simply because there was no one there to observe it..there can't be any 'absolute, 100% proof'...simply because it's a guess....much like the idea of Atlantis, and alien visitations to the Incans and Lake Titicaca or the Nazca desert carvings.....They're 'suggestive', but NOT conclusive..

So, I gather from your non-response, that you are not aware of any other time, "when the Earth was near Peaking its warming cycle AND there were 7 Billion+ humans on this planet"?

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skippy.

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #48 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:54pm

mozzaok wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:34pm:

Only deniers and morons would either misinterpret, or not understand the straightforward point you made, preceptions_now.

The greatest shame of the whole Global warming issue is that the extreme right of politics accepted the lobbying of the energy companies who engineered the denialist campaign, and now that campaign has taken on a life of its own, and otherwise reasonable people can just ignore and reject totally respected and credible scientific opinion, not because of any fault in the science, but based upon their political prejudices alone.

Good to see you here ,Mozz.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #49 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:57pm

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:46pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:16pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

Quote:

[b]This has never happened before!

And you're 5 billion years old, and KNOW this for certain???

I don't know about 5 billion years, to be honest. But I love how deniers will try to refute science that is available and provide NO EVIDENCE to the contrary.

YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it didn't happen??

No I don't know for certain that the Ice caps haven't melted many times in the past, or that some (or numerous) land areas haven't been flooded due to perfectly natural fluctuations in temperature and climate conditions....which is in fact the whole point to the argument..

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR AGREEING WITH ME..... Grin

Exactly right. So, would you rather just deny deny deny or listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise? No one, at least not me, is suggesting we go all out and call the end of the world, buit surely if YOU DON"T KNOW and SCIENCE is suggesting something is incredibly plausible we should look at it?

That and the fact that in the end it just make perfect sense for the future sustainability of not only this planet but the economy.

LOL no not really alevine, I ask perceptions fro 'proof' that the current conditions have never happened before, and YOU asked me for proof that it's 'never happened before'......which IS the same question.....so you stuffed up..

What you SHOULD have asked is "YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it did happen?? (before)"

To which I would have answered YES.....
Typos suck, don't they??

The problem with the idea of "listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise?" is that the science is doing JUST that.......suggesting..It's not, and cannot BE absolutely set in stone..Simply because there was no one there to observe it..there can't be any 'absolute, 100% proof'...simply because it's a guess....much like the idea of Atlantis, and alien visitations to the Incans and Lake Titicaca or the Nazca desert carvings.....They're 'suggestive', but NOT conclusive..

So, I gather from your non-response, that you are not aware of any other time, "when the Earth was near Peaking its warming cycle AND there were 7 Billion+ humans on this planet"?

Personally, no...but over 4.3 billion years, who can say??...Do you know how many people 'may' have existed in the Atlantean civilisation????, or in any other 'previous' civilisation???...Written history (that WE know of) goes back about 10,000 or 15,000 years...Yes?

Can you tell, with any level of certainty, how many people 'may' have existed on Earth, 2 billion years ago???......I know I can't....I'm reduced to using the fossil record and other archaeological evidence...which may not cover all of human existence...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #50 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 4:06pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:16pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

Quote:

[b]This has never happened before!

And you're 5 billion years old, and KNOW this for certain???

I don't know about 5 billion years, to be honest. But I love how deniers will try to refute science that is available and provide NO EVIDENCE to the contrary.

YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it didn't happen??

No I don't know for certain that the Ice caps haven't melted many times in the past, or that some (or numerous) land areas haven't been flooded due to perfectly natural fluctuations in temperature and climate conditions....which is in fact the whole point to the argument..

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR AGREEING WITH ME..... Grin

Exactly right. So, would you rather just deny deny deny or listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise? No one, at least not me, is suggesting we go all out and call the end of the world, buit surely if YOU DON"T KNOW and SCIENCE is suggesting something is incredibly plausible we should look at it?

That and the fact that in the end it just make perfect sense for the future sustainability of not only this planet but the economy.

LOL no not really alevine, I ask perceptions fro 'proof' that the current conditions have never happened before, and YOU asked me for proof that it's 'never happened before'......which IS the same question.....so you stuffed up..

What you SHOULD have asked is "YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it did happen?? (before)"

To which I would have answered YES.....
Typos suck, don't they??

The problem with the idea of "listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise?" is that the science is doing JUST that.......suggesting..It's not, and cannot BE absolutely set in stone..Simply because there was no one there to observe it..there can't be any 'absolute, 100% proof'...simply because it's a guess....much like the idea of Atlantis, and alien visitations to the Incans and Lake Titicaca or the Nazca desert carvings.....They're 'suggestive', but NOT conclusive..

I can't believe I have to explain this, but hey, this is wha thappens when you deal with right wingers I guess.

You asked for prove that these conditions have never occured before.

I asked you the same question back, because, like perceptions, you are not 5 billion years of age. So, how do you know they didn't happen?

Do I need to write it out in baby language for you? Seriously?

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #51 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 5:05pm

Quote:

I can't believe I have to explain this, but hey, this is wha thappens when you deal with right wingers I guess.

You asked for prove that these conditions have never occured before.

I asked you the same question back, because, like perceptions, you are not 5 billion years of age. So, how do you know they didn't happen?

Do I need to write it out in baby language for you? Seriously?

Oh gods, are you actually THAT stupid???

You asked for proof that the 'current climate conditions' didn't happen before...AND I told you that there IS no proof...

IF there isn't any proof that this hasn't happened before then AGW is NOT a viable concept...

To talk in 'baby language'...if the same things HAVE happened , in the past, long before humans developed 'industrial technology'...then Climate Change doesn't have anything to do with Technology....

Can you 'FINALLY' work it out???? The fact that the very same changes to climate have happened LONG before humans started producing Co2 means that Co2 has NOTHING to do with Climate Change...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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perceptions_now

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #52 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 5:46pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:57pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:46pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 3:16pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

Quote:

This has never happened before!

And you're 5 billion years old, and KNOW this for certain???

I don't know about 5 billion years, to be honest. But I love how deniers will try to refute science that is available and provide NO EVIDENCE to the contrary.

YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it didn't happen??

No I don't know for certain that the Ice caps haven't melted many times in the past, or that some (or numerous) land areas haven't been flooded due to perfectly natural fluctuations in temperature and climate conditions....which is in fact the whole point to the argument..

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR AGREEING WITH ME.....

Exactly right. So, would you rather just deny deny deny or listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise? No one, at least not me, is suggesting we go all out and call the end of the world, buit surely if YOU DON"T KNOW and SCIENCE is suggesting something is incredibly plausible we should look at it?

That and the fact that in the end it just make perfect sense for the future sustainability of not only this planet but the economy.

LOL no not really alevine, I ask perceptions fro 'proof' that the current conditions have never happened before, and YOU asked me for proof that it's 'never happened before'......which IS the same question.....so you stuffed up..

What you SHOULD have asked is "YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it did happen?? (before)"

To which I would have answered YES.....
Typos suck, don't they??

The problem with the idea of "listen to some science that is suggesting otherwise?" is that the science is doing JUST that.......suggesting..It's not, and cannot BE absolutely set in stone..Simply because there was no one there to observe it..there can't be any 'absolute, 100% proof'...simply because it's a guess....much like the idea of Atlantis, and alien visitations to the Incans and Lake Titicaca or the Nazca desert carvings.....They're 'suggestive', but NOT conclusive..

So, I gather from your non-response, that you are not aware of any other time, "when the Earth was near Peaking its warming cycle AND there were 7 Billion+ humans on this planet"?

Personally, no...but over 4.3 billion years, who can say??...Do you know how many people 'may' have existed in the Atlantean civilisation????, or in any other 'previous' civilisation???...Written history (that WE know of) goes back about 10,000 or 15,000 years...Yes?

Can you tell, with any level of certainty, how many people 'may' have existed on Earth, 2 billion years ago???......I know I can't....I'm reduced to using the fossil record and other archaeological evidence...which may not cover all of human existence...

Let's try to stay with what the best science of the day can tell!

Wandering off, into a vitual realm of what if's & maybe's, only serves those who look for confusion!

The facts are that we (humans) haven't been around that long and there were only a few of us at the end of the last warming cycle, which is the one & only that we have experienced and we all but disappeared during the following Ice Age, again the only one we have experienced.

It is interesting, that you defer to a science, in order to disprove a science?

As I said, this has never happened before!
Trust me (I'm not a Politician), I guarantee it and if Public Policy/planning is done on the back of an assumption that it (the usual climate cycle) has happened before and we are still here, then we will risk the entire future of humanity, on a false premise!

You know what?
Given the human species track record and the record of our Politicians and of TPTB, it is quite likely that we will proceed with those false assumptions and it may well, cost us the Earth?

And, future generations, if there are any, will look back say, "they knew there were substantial Risks, but they didn't try to mitigate those Risks, they didn't even try"!

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perceptions_now

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #53 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 5:55pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 5:05pm:

Quote:

I can't believe I have to explain this, but hey, this is wha thappens when you deal with right wingers I guess.

You asked for prove that these conditions have never occured before.

I asked you the same question back, because, like perceptions, you are not 5 billion years of age. So, how do you know they didn't happen?

Do I need to write it out in baby language for you? Seriously?

Oh gods, are you actually THAT stupid???

You asked for proof that the 'current climate conditions' didn't happen before...AND I told you that there IS no proof...

IF there isn't any proof that this hasn't happened before then AGW is NOT a viable concept...

To talk in 'baby language'...if the same things HAVE happened , in the past, long before humans developed 'industrial technology'...then Climate Change doesn't have anything to do with Technology....

Can you 'FINALLY' work it out???? The fact that the very same changes to climate have happened LONG before humans started producing Co2 means that Co2 has NOTHING to do with Climate Change...

gizmo,
Can I ask another question?

Yes! Thank you!

Are the causes of current GFC different to previous GFC's?

Let me tell you, the answer is yes!

You know what that tells me?

It is possible to arrive at a similar outcome, when the underlying causes are not completely the same!

Would you agree?

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cods

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #54 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 6:16pm

, I gather from your non-response, that you are not aware of any other time, "when the Earth was near Peaking its warming cycle AND there were 7 Billion+ humans on this planet"?
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I could be wrong but I am assuming you are saying because there are 7 billion humans on the globe.. thats why the weather is warming up??..

so in that case I think I answered you question and said yes you greens are dead right.. so when do you plan to jump off.. and let all those naysayers get on with their lives..

I mean sweating bodyheat. deadskin flakes.. dandruff farts. breathing all add to our carbon emmissions.. we wont go near the sewage ugh thingy... so lets see the less humans the better.. good of you guys to put your hands up very comendable..

theres me thinking its the nasty machines and electricity and coal we would die for,

that was the reason and its all about body odor now... got it.

why didnt woody explain that in the first place.. 7 bil never had that many people on the planet before

how many in the greens party can we count on to jump and make the place safer????????

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Equitist

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #55 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 6:44pm

Will somebody at least try to explain to Cods, that the problem isn't just that there are unprecedented numbers of humans on the planet but that we've become obscenely materialistic, destructive and short-sighted buggers - who worship the Mickey Mouse Monopoly Money of the Growth Fairy and his evil twin the Good Greedy Witch of the West...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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perceptions_now

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #56 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 6:51pm

cods wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 6:16pm:

, I gather from your non-response, that you are not aware of any other time, "when the Earth was near Peaking its warming cycle AND there were 7 Billion+ humans on this planet"?
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I could be wrong but I am assuming you are saying because there are 7 billion humans on the globe.. thats why the weather is warming up??..

so in that case I think I answered you question and said yes you greens are dead right.. so when do you plan to jump off.. and let all those naysayers get on with their lives..

I mean sweating bodyheat. deadskin flakes.. dandruff farts. breathing all add to our carbon emmissions.. we wont go near the sewage ugh thingy... so lets see the less humans the better.. good of you guys to put your hands up very comendable..

theres me thinking its the nasty machines and electricity and coal we would die for,

that was the reason and its all about body odor now... got it.

why didnt woody explain that in the first place.. 7 bil never had that many people on the planet before

how many in the greens party can we count on to jump and make the place safer????????

So, you DO live with slr20mcclaren and perhaps Mellie?

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain Reply #57 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 7:03pm Yer, them and the Pixies, no doubt...
Back to top	Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer! IP Logged

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #58 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 7:13pm

There is still a window of opportunity to coax the hard right out of their denial. The return from their share portfolio.

Energy Investor Corporate Resolutions Increase on Climate Change

Climate change is bad for business—2011 marks a 50 percent hike in corporate energy investor climate change resolutions

Climate change doesn’t just have an effect on the environment; it can affect your portfolio as well. In fact, a report just released by Mercer consulting group claims that climate change could increase portfolio risk by 10 percent over the next 20 years—and this applies to nearly all businesses directly and indirectly tied to the energy sector.

More @
http://www.energydigital.com/sectors/other-energy/energy-investor-corporate-reso...

It isn't hard to realise we can not debate logically with the denialists, they refuse to believe science because this is their only weapon ; ignorance.

Yet if we educate them about the cost and risk via their portfolios and superannuation fund payouts, maybe we might get a spark in their grey matter. They could then realise calculated action is better than just ignoring and letting money vanish out of their pockets.

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shutterstock_64076425.jpg (26 KB | 74 )

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Climate Change Is the Culprit in Extreme Rain
Reply #59 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 8:36pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 5:05pm:

Quote:

I can't believe I have to explain this, but hey, this is wha thappens when you deal with right wingers I guess.

You asked for prove that these conditions have never occured before.

I asked you the same question back, because, like perceptions, you are not 5 billion years of age. So, how do you know they didn't happen?

Do I need to write it out in baby language for you? Seriously?

Oh gods, are you actually THAT stupid???

You asked for proof that the 'current climate conditions' didn't happen before...AND I told you that there IS no proof...

IF there isn't any proof that this hasn't happened before then AGW is NOT a viable concept...

To talk in 'baby language'...if the same things HAVE happened , in the past, long before humans developed 'industrial technology'...then Climate Change doesn't have anything to do with Technology....

Can you 'FINALLY' work it out???? The fact that the very same changes to climate have happened LONG before humans started producing Co2 means that Co2 has NOTHING to do with Climate Change...

I'm going to put this into point for for you, so you can hopefully get the picture and realise what the debate is bout:

* No one is arguing anymore that climate change is not real, yet the argument is whether humans have accelerated climate change because of carbon emissions. Catch up on the debate, Human-Caused climate change is the actual thing even Abbott is debating, not JUST climate change in general. We know climate change exist and always happens. You know how? the ice age.
* Considering humans weren't around 5 billion years ago, any evidence about that time becomes meaningless, unless you can show that climate change had the same effects in regards to its veracity and enhancement over time. Good luck with that. Like you said, you weren't around then, you can't prove that the weather patterns were as strong/the changes were as fast etc.etc.
* If you're hard right, aren't you meant to believe that the world was created only like 2000 years ago or so, and that dinosaur fossils were only a trick by god to reveal true believers?
* The argument is also whether we put action into place to reduce human-caused climate change, to hopefully reduce the veracity of climate change. No one denies that the climate will change. It's whether we can reduce the effects of it by reducing our emissions that theoretically accelerate it.

Are you also going to suggest CO2 is a harmless gas like mavisthebevishead? Someone should inform the science community because there's not much point in them continuing research if the hard right nutters have found the answer!

I ask you again, do you have evidence that climate change was the SAME veracity and had the same acceleration over time 5 billion years ago? No? Then shut up and do some research about what the debate has always been about.

Not to mention that if we want to revolutionize our economy we must put into action policies that will begin to transform the way we do things. I know the hard right things progression is the most horrible thing in the world, but you can't seat here and constantly go "over time enhanced technology will become available." Technology advancement depends on demand and expectation. there is a reason we don't have a self-driving car but have increased the speed of our computers x1000 since their introduction. Work out why.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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