Australian Politics Forum - The case against homosexual parents

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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #45 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 4:33pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 4:28pm:

... wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 3:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 3:33pm:

... wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 3:25pm:

adelcrow wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 3:04pm:

I dare say Elton Johns child is going to have a far richer life than long term unemployed outer suburbs Bob and Brenda's kids

Being gay or straight makes no difference its the love of the parents that counts.
There are highly educated gay's and lesbian's with good careers that are financially secure that have a far greater prospect of bringing up loved, well rounded and successfull children than the typical intergenerational unemployed bogans in the outer suburbs that pump out kids by the dozen for the welfare payments.
I say lets ban the long term unemployed from breeding before we get stuck into the gay and lesbian community

Is there any argument FOR gay marrtaige/breeding/adoption that doesn't rely on a compariosn between the best of gays and the worst of heterosexuals? Be alot more convincing if we could compare apples with apples.

Wesley...WHY does there need to be???
The couple who can provide the 'best' life for the child should be the ONLY criteria...Which is better in your mind....a hetero couple, made up of an alcoholic mother and paedophile father, OR a gay couple made up of 2 loving, non addicted, non paedophillic parents (male OR female)???

Ahaaa but gays are 'just like you and I' aren't they?
So if that's the case, the gay couple are just as likely to be alcoholic paedophiles aren't they?Let's face it, the 'queue' for adoption is waaaaay longer than the children available for adoption.

Of course, if they can make their own child, how could I object?

That's my point...Judge the prospective parents by their behaviour, not their sexuality...

If the parents are alcoholic,druggies or paedophilles, refuse them, irrespective of the parents sexual preferences...Why is it 'better' to allow drunk, or druggie or paedophile parents to adopt...JUST because they're heterosexual, when there are gay parents willing to adopt, who aren't alcoholics, druggies or paedophiles?????.....Do you see my point?? it's better to allow an upstanding, 'clean' couple to adopt, no matter their sexuality than it is to put the children at risk...

They don't!!!!! theres a rigorous screening process!

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: The case against homosexual parents Reply #46 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 4:35pm Double post. oops
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adelcrow

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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #47 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 4:35pm

Actually you will find advertising agencies "profiling" of long term gay and lesbian couples show them to be on average higher achieving, highly educated, higher incomes, better travelled, happier with their lives and much more involved in community issues than the average straight couple. So in that sense they are a little different Tongue

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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #48 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 4:37pm

adelcrow wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 4:35pm:

Actually you will find advertising agencies "profiling" of long term gay and lesbian couples show them to be on average higher achieving, highly educated, higher incomes, better travelled, happier with their lives and much more involved in community issues than the average straight couple. So in that sense they are a little different Tongue

You'll also find they are more probe to STD's, drug abuse and suicide....but we're not allowed to mention that.

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: The case against homosexual parents Reply #49 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 4:55pm It is true to say that established loving gay/lesbian couples are less likely to be victims of spouse abuse, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, suicide and venereal diseases. In fact straight men in rurual areas have much higher stats when it comes to all of the above.
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #50 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:01pm

adelcrow wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 4:55pm:

It is true to say that established loving gay/lesbian couples are less likely to be victims of spouse abuse, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, suicide and venereal diseases.
In fact straight men in rurual areas have much higher stats when it comes to all of the above.

Gay and Lesbian domestic violence
Data on domestic violence in gay and lesbian relationships in Australia is
almost non-existent. McQuarrie (1995, p. 39) states, ‘although no research
has ever been done, guesttimates suggest that up to 25% of same-sex
relationships could be affected.’ Others have also commented that
prevalence rates are not dissimilar to those in heterosexual relationships.
Papers from the First National Conference on Violence and Abuse within
Lesbian Relationships (Irwin 1997) highlighted that it has been difficult to talk
about violence within relationships within the lesbian community, let alone the
broader community, and that there is little documented evidence available.
The NSW Police Service Out of the Blue report (Thompson 1995) provided
details of the experiences of violence of gay men and lesbian through a
survey administered at Mardi Gras Fair Day in 1994:
Australian Domestic and Family Violence Clearinghouse Topic Paper:
Australian Statistics on Domestic Violence
13
• 5% of lesbians and 5% of gay men who responded to the survey,
stated they had experienced domestic violence within the previous 12
months.
• Barriers to reporting incidents to the police were highlighted with many
reporting that there was little they thought the police could do.
• Results also indicated that lesbians expressed higher fear levels about
sexual assault and domestic violence than gay men and that they were
twice as fearful of experiencing domestic violence than the general
female population.
http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/PDFfiles/Statistics_final.pdf

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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #51 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:03pm

School's Out: Homosexuality, Bullying and Suicide

Heidi Gilchrist, Glennys Howarth and Gerard Sullivan

University of Sydney

Suicide is now the leading cause of death by injury in Australia ahead of car accidents and homicide, and it is the largest single cause of death in Australian men. In recent years, several reports have linked homosexual orientation to youth suicide. Studies estimate nearly 30 percent of gay youths attempt suicide (Nicholas and Howard, 1998), but the complex relationship between the two has not been studied. This paper, therefore, focuses on the cultural context of suicide and asks questions about how it comes to be constructed as an option for young people experiencing harassment due to sexual orientation. The data are based primarily on interviewee responses to a scenario that describes the experiences of Chris, a young person, who confides in a teacher that s/he is considering suicide due to the marginalization s/he feels as a result of a gay identity. This paper explores the views of young people, teachers, youth counsellors, parents and community leaders about the role of school communities and key actors within them in the development of this situation and their role in overcoming it. The paper concludes with an investigation of implications for pastoral care of gay youths and professional practice in schools.

http://www.aare.edu.au/02pap/gil02454.htm

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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #52 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:05pm

Alcohol and drug use among homosexual men and women: epidemiology and population characteristics.
McKirnan DJ, Peterson PL.

University of Illinois, Department of Psychology, Chicago 60680.

Abstract
Homosexual men and women have been described as at high risk for alcohol and drug abuse, due to psychosocial variables such as stress levels or the cultural importance of bar settings. However, there are few actual data in this regard. This paper presents the findings of a large (n = 3400) survey of a homosexual population regarding population characteristics and patterns of alcohol and drug use. Psychosocial variables that may account for substance use patterns both generally and in this population are discussed in an accompanying paper. Substantially higher proportions of the homosexual sample used alcohol, marijuana, or cocaine than was the case in the general population. Contrary to other reports, this was not accompanied by higher rates of heavy use, although homosexuals did show higher rates of alcohol problems. In the general population women consume less drugs and alcohol than do men, and substance use substantially declines with age. Neither of these patterns were found for the homosexual sample, thus creating overall higher rates of substance abuse. This may reflect differences between homosexuals and the general population in their adherence to sex-role stereotypes and age-related social role changes, as well as culturally specific stressors and vulnerability to substance use.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2589133

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adelcrow

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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #53 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:27pm

It all points to older gays and lesbians in stable loving relationships as being as good a parents as any straight couple.
What are the comparisons to men in rural areas where suicide, violence and drug and alcochol abuse are in almost epidemic proportions.

I dont usually pay much attention to stuff plucked from the internet because quite honestly two people could go back and forth for years posting opposing uni papers plucked from almost anywhere.
University papers are usually the worse way to prove a point..I dont know anyone who has a tertiary education who would wipe their bums with a paper that came out of a uni.
Unless of course it was by an internationally respected expert in the particular field, otherwise its just a lecturer or a student dribbling on looking for brownie points

I am always happy to consider studies done by respected, experienced; experts in the field

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: The case against homosexual parents Reply #54 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:30pm oops..and only Australian studies ' There are many factors in the USA that make their stats pretty useless when taken outside of the USA
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: The case against homosexual parents Reply #55 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:32pm If you're going to make claims about how superior gays are, I don't need to look too hard to 'prove' otherwise. They might be just as good PEOPLE, but as for being just as good PARENTS...well, one could debate whether they are really parents at all.
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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: The case against homosexual parents Reply #56 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:40pm Quote: They don't!!!!! theres a rigorous screening process Yes THAT is exactly my point...as long as the SAME screening process is used, it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter about the sexual preference...
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #57 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:48pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 5:40pm:

Quote:

They don't!!!!! theres a rigorous screening process

Yes THAT is exactly my point...as long as the SAME screening process is used, it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter about the sexual preference...

Well if it came down to 2 'equally qualified' couples (whatever that means) one hetero, one homo, you'd hafta go hetero every time, for the childs sake. And since the queue is so full with caring, stable heterosexual couples anyway, it'd be a very rare occurrence indeed for the homos to win out.

Of course, if history tells us anything, they'd just sue, claiming discrimination until they got their little trophy.

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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #58 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 6:42pm

adelcrow wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 3:04pm:

I dare say Elton Johns child is going to have a far richer life than long term unemployed outer suburbs Bob and Brenda's kids

Being gay or straight makes no difference its the love of the parents that counts.
There are highly educated gay's and lesbian's with good careers that are financially secure that have a far greater prospect of bringing up loved, well rounded and successfull children than the typical intergenerational unemployed bogans in the outer suburbs that pump out kids by the dozen for the welfare payments.
I say lets ban the long term unemployed from breeding before we get stuck into the gay and lesbian community

As someone who supports gays right to access IVF, you couldnt have used a worse example if you tried. Elton is far to old to be having children, and his child faces a childhood with potentially without his father because Elton is entering the later stages in his life.

Eltons act was a selfish one.

He should have done it 20 years ago and his child would have been far richer for the experience.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 122741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The case against homosexual parents Reply #59 - Feb 17^th, 2011 at 8:26pm But Verge - you are a christian & homosexuality is a sin. Leviticus 20: Quote: 13] If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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