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The case against homosexual parents (Read 22505 times)
Soren
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #180 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:18pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 1:59pm:
MoreKavaPlease wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:31pm:
I personally dislike homosexuals. I don't care what they do, as long as they keep away from me. Don't care if they marry whatever, but when it comes to children, I petty any child subjected to such sociological experimentation.

I am afraid I believe in the evolutionary model for raising children- a man and a woman.

Gay rights all the way, except I don't want to be exposed to gay sex acts, and I think the rights of children override the rights of gays.


That's interesting Kava, since in most primitive societies the 'model' was children raised by the whole tribe....


Sh!t, now you are angling for NOT just for gay couples but the whole smacking Village People adopting.




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« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:38pm by Soren »  
 
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #181 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:36pm
 
Soren wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:18pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 1:59pm:
MoreKavaPlease wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:31pm:
I personally dislike homosexuals. I don't care what they do, as long as they keep away from me. Don't care if they marry whatever, but when it comes to children, I petty any child subjected to such sociological experimentation.

I am afraid I believe in the evolutionary model for raising children- a man and a woman.

Gay rights all the way, except I don't want to be exposed to gay sex acts, and I think the rights of children override the rights of gays.


That's interesting Kava, since in most primitive societies the 'model' was children raised by the whole tribe....


Sh!t, now you are angling for just for gay couples but the whole smacking Village People adopting.





That is true Gizmo, but in most primitive societies, there weren't these bogus notions of homsexuality being an equal or desirable condition either.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #182 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:43pm
 
Soren wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:18pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 1:59pm:
MoreKavaPlease wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:31pm:
I personally dislike homosexuals. I don't care what they do, as long as they keep away from me. Don't care if they marry whatever, but when it comes to children, I petty any child subjected to such sociological experimentation.

I am afraid I believe in the evolutionary model for raising children- a man and a woman.

Gay rights all the way, except I don't want to be exposed to gay sex acts, and I think the rights of children override the rights of gays.


That's interesting Kava, since in most primitive societies the 'model' was children raised by the whole tribe....


Sh!t, now you are angling for just for gay couples but the whole smacking Village People adopting.


Yeah, why not???

Only 3 members of the Village People were actually gay after all..

And back when I was a kid, the whole street ('tribe') looked after us kiddies......if we fell over and hurt ourselves, the people from the closest house did the first aid and comfort thing...including food and drinks...

Back then, a crying child attracted every adult within hearing, to help... sadly, that doesn't happen now...
But even then, it was still a case of one in ten people were homosexual, and it made NO difference...Homosexuals were just as quick to help injured children, as anyone else...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #183 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:45pm
 
... wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:36pm:
Soren wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:18pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 1:59pm:
MoreKavaPlease wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:31pm:
I personally dislike homosexuals. I don't care what they do, as long as they keep away from me. Don't care if they marry whatever, but when it comes to children, I petty any child subjected to such sociological experimentation.

I am afraid I believe in the evolutionary model for raising children- a man and a woman.

Gay rights all the way, except I don't want to be exposed to gay sex acts, and I think the rights of children override the rights of gays.


That's interesting Kava, since in most primitive societies the 'model' was children raised by the whole tribe....


Sh!t, now you are angling for just for gay couples but the whole smacking Village People adopting.





That is true Gizmo, but in most primitive societies, there weren't these bogus notions of homsexuality being an equal or desirable condition either.


But they still existed.....it was just that no one cared..
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #184 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:47pm
 
Sh!t, now you are angling for NOT just for gay couples but the whole smacking Village People adopting.... Soren

Great line Soren.
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


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"He who does not value life does not deserve it." -- Leonardo da Vinci&&&&
 
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #185 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:35pm
 
. I gotta stop trolling. [edited]
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« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:42pm by MoreKavaPlease »  
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #186 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:56pm
 
MoreKavaPlease wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:35pm:
Actually the village idea is good, but I think the man and woman still bore primary responsibility for the children...

In my opinion homosexuality is a form of personality disorder. I also don't believe 10% of males are gay, that is just propoganda to make them seem more common, more like 3-5%, simular to the rate of deranged personality disorders and mental illness... Hardly something that should be encouraged... I mean hey if you want to not discriminate against homosexuals, and celebrate their sexuality, then you should celebrate pedophilia, because its just as legitimate a sexual orientation, and if the person isn't molesting children, then they should morally be accepted.

I have known two gays in my life, and they were both complete whackos, confirming that homosexuals tend to be more mentally unstable than hetrosexuals, on average.

I don't hate homosexuals as people, I hate the advocacy of their sexual orientation. They have far enough bloody rights, bloody appalling the idea of fags having kids, as if the kids aren't at a much higher chance of being molested by them, and  the homos will try and "convert" them by deliberately sexualizing the children with their gayness. Gays = hypersexual lunatics.


I think you might need to re-write that as "I have known openly gay people....'' etc...

I've known considerable more than 2 gay people in MY life and most of them have been fairly well adjusted and 'normal' (allowing for the differences in sexuality)....And I've yet to find any reliable data in any study of child molesters to indicate that homosexuals are more likely to molest children.....quite the opposite in fact, most paedophiles are heterosexual, and something more than 80% are married or in long-term heterosexual relationships...
That is actually the problem...most child sexual abuse is committed by a family member (parent, grandparent, uncle/aunt) or step-parent (step-father, step-mother)...the adoption risk of abuse is also from heterosexual foster parents...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #187 - Apr 17th, 2011 at 5:10pm
 


Earlier this arvo, I watched a heartwarming re-run of an Australian Story entitled 'Fathers Day'...

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/fathersday/default.htm

Quote:
29/05/2006

Over the last ten years Australian Story has featured many families of all sorts of background and make-up, but probably none as challenging as the extended household viewers will meet on Monday night.

When Paul Van Reyk set out to have a child more than 20 years ago, he was trying to make a political statement. He says: "It seemed wrong to me that gay men and women were excluded from having children."

So when a single, straight friend wanted to have a child, he agreed to marry her – 'to give the child legal protection' - but with no intention of helping to raise the child, a daughter, Mary. One thing led to another; other friends, straight and gay sought his help, and now Paul Van Reyk has six children with five different mothers - all part of one big extended family with Van Reyk at the centre. He suspects, there may be another half dozen children out there somewhere.

Paul Van Reyk broke the news of his fecundity to his own parents on Fathers Day 2003. They knew about Mary, but not the other children. Paul Van Reyk says: "I said Dad, I've got a special present. I brought out the pictures of all the other kids and I just put them across the table and said 'these are your other grandchildren'.
He was stunned but he just kept grinning..."




PROGRAM EXTRAS

Fathers' Day - Transcript





It can be watched at the above link - and probably on IView...


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gizmo_2655
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #188 - Apr 17th, 2011 at 5:26pm
 
Equitist wrote on Apr 17th, 2011 at 5:10pm:
Earlier this arvo, I watched a heartwarming re-run of an Australian Story entitled 'Fathers Day'...

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/fathersday/default.htm

Quote:
29/05/2006

Over the last ten years Australian Story has featured many families of all sorts of background and make-up, but probably none as challenging as the extended household viewers will meet on Monday night.

When Paul Van Reyk set out to have a child more than 20 years ago, he was trying to make a political statement. He says: "It seemed wrong to me that gay men and women were excluded from having children."

So when a single, straight friend wanted to have a child, he agreed to marry her – 'to give the child legal protection' - but with no intention of helping to raise the child, a daughter, Mary. One thing led to another; other friends, straight and gay sought his help, and now Paul Van Reyk has six children with five different mothers - all part of one big extended family with Van Reyk at the centre. He suspects, there may be another half dozen children out there somewhere.

Paul Van Reyk broke the news of his fecundity to his own parents on Fathers Day 2003. They knew about Mary, but not the other children. Paul Van Reyk says: "I said Dad, I've got a special present. I brought out the pictures of all the other kids and I just put them across the table and said 'these are your other grandchildren'.
He was stunned but he just kept grinning..."




PROGRAM EXTRAS

Fathers' Day - Transcript





It can be watched at the above link - and probably on IView...





So, does it strike you as 'silly' or 'wrong' that a gay man...( which I assume Paul Van Reyk IS) has to use his own 'donated sperm' to father children....rather than just adopting unwanted children??

This guy seems to be fairly prolific breeder....so why shouldn't he be involved in his kids lives???

He seems happy to have children, and proud of them too...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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buzzanddidj
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #189 - Apr 17th, 2011 at 7:47pm
 
... wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:36pm:
Soren wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:18pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 1:59pm:
MoreKavaPlease wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:31pm:
I personally dislike homosexuals. I don't care what they do, as long as they keep away from me. Don't care if they marry whatever, but when it comes to children, I petty any child subjected to such sociological experimentation.

I am afraid I believe in the evolutionary model for raising children- a man and a woman.

Gay rights all the way, except I don't want to be exposed to gay sex acts, and I think the rights of children override the rights of gays.


That's interesting Kava, since in most primitive societies the 'model' was children raised by the whole tribe....


Sh!t, now you are angling for just for gay couples but the whole smacking Village People adopting.





That is true Gizmo, but in most primitive societies, there weren't these bogus notions of homsexuality being an equal or desirable condition either.






Though often ignored or suppressed by European explorers and colonialists, homosexual expression in native Africa was also present and took a variety of forms. Anthropologists Stephen Murray and Will Roscoe reported that women in Lesotho engaged in socially sanctioned "long term, erotic relationships" called motsoalle.[121] E. E. Evans-Pritchard also recorded that male Azande warriors in the northern Congo routinely took on young male lovers between the ages of twelve and twenty, who helped with household tasks and participated in intercrural sex with their older husbands. The practice had died out by the early 20th century, after Europeans had gained control of African countries, but was recounted to Evans-Pritchard by the elders to whom he spoke.[122]

The first record of possible homosexual couple in history is commonly regarded as Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, an Egyptian male couple, who lived around the 2400 BCE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

Among indigenous peoples of the Americas prior to European colonization, a common form of same-sex sexuality centered around the figure of the Two-Spirit individual. Typically this individual was recognized early in life, given a choice by the parents to follow the path and, if the child accepted the role, raised in the appropriate manner, learning the customs of the gender it had chosen. Two-Spirit individuals were commonly shamans and were revered as having powers beyond those of ordinary shamans. Their sexual life was with the ordinary tribe members of the same sex.

Homosexual and transgender individuals were also common among other pre-conquest civilizations in Latin America, such as the Aztecs, Mayans, Quechuas, Moches, Zapotecs, and the Tupinambá of Brazil



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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #190 - Apr 17th, 2011 at 8:00pm
 

buzz,
Quote:
Though often ignored or suppressed by European explorers and colonialists, homosexual expression in native Africa was also present and took a variety of forms. Anthropologists Stephen Murray and Will Roscoe reported that women in Lesotho engaged in socially sanctioned "long term, erotic relationships" called motsoalle.[121] E. E. Evans-Pritchard also recorded that male Azande warriors in the northern Congo routinely took on young male lovers between the ages of twelve and twenty, who helped with household tasks and participated in intercrural sex with their older husbands. The practice had died out by the early 20th century, after Europeans had gained control of African countries, but was recounted to Evans-Pritchard by the elders to whom he spoke.[122]

The first record of possible homosexual couple in history is commonly regarded as Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, an Egyptian male couple, who lived around the 2400 BCE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

Among indigenous peoples of the Americas prior to European colonization, a common form of same-sex sexuality centered around the figure of the Two-Spirit individual. Typically this individual was recognized early in life, given a choice by the parents to follow the path and, if the child accepted the role, raised in the appropriate manner, learning the customs of the gender it had chosen. Two-Spirit individuals were commonly shamans and were revered as having powers beyond those of ordinary shamans. Their sexual life was with the ordinary tribe members of the same sex.

Homosexual and transgender individuals were also common among other pre-conquest civilizations in Latin America, such as the Aztecs, Mayans, Quechuas, Moches, Zapotecs, and the Tupinambá of Brazil



You are folowing a fallacy there.
People have always murdered others, does not make it a good thing
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #191 - Apr 17th, 2011 at 8:06pm
 

Homosexual and transgender individuals were also common among other pre-conquest civilizations in Latin America, such as the Aztecs, Mayans, Quechuas, Moches, Zapotecs, and the Tupinambá of Brazil

Non of these exist any longer either.


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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #192 - Apr 17th, 2011 at 8:13pm
 
Verge wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 12:01pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 10:27am:
look, the homos cant have kids.
nature states that, not me.
If they cant have kids, they ain't meant them

about 2 - 4 % of population are homo.
Few of that want kids.
What %age are we spending millions on to grant them something nature says "NO" to ?????


Will you be applying the same to any person who wishes to conceive a child through unnatural causes?





Well, he'd HAVE to be
He'd be a HYPOCRITE, otherwise








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Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #193 - Apr 17th, 2011 at 9:05pm
 


gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 17th, 2011 at 5:26pm:
Equitist wrote on Apr 17th, 2011 at 5:10pm:
Earlier this arvo, I watched a heartwarming re-run of an Australian Story entitled 'Fathers Day'...

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/fathersday/default.htm

Quote:
29/05/2006

Over the last ten years Australian Story has featured many families of all sorts of background and make-up, but probably none as challenging as the extended household viewers will meet on Monday night.

When Paul Van Reyk set out to have a child more than 20 years ago, he was trying to make a political statement. He says: "It seemed wrong to me that gay men and women were excluded from having children."

So when a single, straight friend wanted to have a child, he agreed to marry her – 'to give the child legal protection' - but with no intention of helping to raise the child, a daughter, Mary. One thing led to another; other friends, straight and gay sought his help, and now Paul Van Reyk has six children with five different mothers - all part of one big extended family with Van Reyk at the centre. He suspects, there may be another half dozen children out there somewhere.

Paul Van Reyk broke the news of his fecundity to his own parents on Fathers Day 2003. They knew about Mary, but not the other children. Paul Van Reyk says: "I said Dad, I've got a special present. I brought out the pictures of all the other kids and I just put them across the table and said 'these are your other grandchildren'.
He was stunned but he just kept grinning..."




PROGRAM EXTRAS

Fathers' Day - Transcript





It can be watched at the above link - and probably on IView...





So, does it strike you as 'silly' or 'wrong' that a gay man...( which I assume Paul Van Reyk IS) has to use his own 'donated sperm' to father children....rather than just adopting unwanted children??

This guy seems to be fairly prolific breeder....so why shouldn't he be involved in his kids lives???

He seems happy to have children, and proud of them too...




Dunno why you addressed that to me, Gizmo, because I have expressed no firm opinion one way or another in relation to parental rights ...

I wouldn't presume the right to judge nor interfere in any particular case, where the best interests of the children are kept at the forefront of any decision making...

As for the unique extended-cum-communal family structure profiled in that Australian Story program, it seems to work very well for all of the individuals involved...

The program showed an atmosphere of mutual respect and positivity and the children seem particularly well-adjusted - hence I found the story refreshingly heartwarming (and it triggered my memory of this thread)...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Re: The case against homosexual parents
Reply #194 - Apr 17th, 2011 at 9:37pm
 
Maeve wrote on Apr 17th, 2011 at 8:06pm:
Homosexual and transgender individuals were also common among other pre-conquest civilizations in Latin America, such as the Aztecs, Mayans, Quechuas, Moches, Zapotecs, and the Tupinambá of Brazil

Non of these exist any longer either.


Still a lot of gays amongst the priesthood that replaced them though.
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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
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