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Muslim brotherhood of Egypt (Read 3429 times)
stryder
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Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:10pm
 
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IN 1985 as a teenager in Kenya, I was an adamant member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Seventeen years later, in 2002, I took part in a political campaign to win votes for the conservative party in The Netherlands. Those two experiences gave me some insights that I think are relevant to the crisis in Egypt.
They lead me to believe it is highly likely but not inevitable that the Muslim Brotherhood will win the elections to be held in Egypt in September.

As a participant in an election, I learned a few basic lessons.

1. The party must have a political program all members commit to with a vision of how to govern the country until the next election. Dissent within the party is a sure way of losing elections.

2. Candidates must articulate not only what they will do for the country but also why the other party's program will be catastrophic for the nation.

3. The party has to be embedded in as many communities as possible, regardless of social class, religion or even political views.



by  Ayaan Hirsi Ali



I think this opinion as it is gives us those who do see a threat of hard radical muslims rising amongst the moderate mainstream muslim world, and those who feel its natural to question Islam,
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stryder
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #1 - Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:14pm
 
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4. Candidates must constantly remind potential voters of their party's record of success and the opponent's record of failure.

The secular democratic and human rights groups in Egypt and in the rest of the Arab world show little sign of understanding these facts of political life. The Muslim Brotherhood, on the other hand, gets at least three out of four. True, they have never been in office. But they have a political program and a vision not only until the next elections, but in their view until the hereafter. And they are very good at reminding Egyptians of why the other party's policies will be ungodly and therefore catastrophic for Egypt. Above all, they have succeeded in embedding themselves in Egyptian society in ways that could prove crucial.

When I was 15 and considered myself a member of the Muslim Brotherhood movement, there were secular political groups in the diasporas of Pakistanis, Yemenis and Somalis in Nairobi who lived in exile like my family. These loosely organised groups had vague plans for restoring their respective countries and building them into peaceful, prosperous nations. These were dreams they never realised.




by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
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stryder
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #2 - Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:17pm
 
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The Muslim Brotherhood did more than dream. With the help of money from Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich countries, they established cells in my school and functioning institutions in my neighbourhood. There were extracurricular activities for students. There were prayer and chant hours, as well as communal Koran readings. We were encouraged to become volunteers, to help the indigent, to spread Allah's message. There were classes and activities for all age groups. They established charities to which we could give Zakat (tithe for charity), which was then used to provide health and educational centres.

The Brotherhood also provided the only functioning banking networks, based on trust. They rescued teenagers from lives of drug addiction and excited them about a purposeful future for justice. Each of us was expected to recruit more people for the Muslim Brotherhood, creating a perpetual campaign. The mosques and Muslim centres were the main areas of association, but they visited us at home. Importantly, their message transcended ethnicity, social class and even educational levels.

It is true that the movement was violent, but we tend to underestimate in the West the Brotherhood's ability to adapt to reality and implement lessons learned. One such adaptation is the debate within the network on the use of violence. There


by  Ayaan Hirsi Ali


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stryder
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #3 - Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:20pm
 
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The mosques and Muslim centres were the main areas of association, but they visited us at home. Importantly, their message transcended ethnicity, social class and even educational levels.

It is true that the movement was violent, but we tend to underestimate in the West the Brotherhood's ability to adapt to reality and implement lessons learned. One such adaptation is the debate within the network on the use of violence. There are two schools of thought within the network, and both of them invoke the Prophet Mohammed as an example.

Those who want instant jihad hark back to the time when the Prophet had small armies that defeated massive ones, as in the battles of Badr and Uhud. The nonviolent branch of the Brotherhood emphasises the Prophet's perseverance and patience. They emphasise Da'wa (persuasion through preaching and by example) and above all a gradual multi-generational process in coming to power and holding on to it. Above all, they argue for Taqiyyah, a strategy to collaborate with your enemies until the time is ripe to defeat them or convert them.

Why are the secular democratic forces in Egypt so much weaker than the Muslim Brotherhood? There are a number of factors. One reason is that they are an amalgam of very diverse elements: There are tribal leaders, free-market liberals, socialists, hard-core Marxists and human rights activists. In other words, they lack common ideological glue comparable to the one that the Brotherhood has. Finally, there is a deep-seated fear that opposition to the Muslim Brotherhood, whose aim is to install sharia law once they come to power, will be seen by the masses as a rejection of Islam altogether.




by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
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stryder
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #4 - Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:21pm
 
full article http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/muslim-brotherhood-will-likely-win-next-poll/story-e6frg6zo-1226003954495

something to ponder about
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abu_rashid
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #5 - Feb 12th, 2011 at 9:44am
 
Hirsi Ali is a charlatan.

She's an opportunist who has lied her way into the Netherlands, and continues to "reconstruct" her own past to make a name for herself amongst the anti-Islamic circles that are rising in Europe.

Anyone with an iota of knowledge about the situation of the Muslim world would pick her tales apart at the seams.

Just for a start, although I'm sure most Westerners (to whom she peddles her nonsense) wouldn't know the difference, the Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Arabia are pretty much complete opposites, and they would certainly not be in any funding arrangement. The Saudi government has funded people to challenge and oppose the Brotherhood, not to help them. But to the gullible Westerners that Hirsi Ali seeks her audience amongst, that would go unnoticed.

She lied about her circumstances to get into the Netherlands, and she continues to lie about things now.
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salad in
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #6 - Feb 12th, 2011 at 9:59am
 
stryder wrote on Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:10pm:
I think this opinion as it is gives us those who do see a threat of hard radical muslims rising amongst the moderate mainstream muslim world, and those who feel its natural to question Islam,


Where have you been? Haven't you heard that Islam is a religion of peace. Just because a few guys became proficient at conducting take-offs in large passenger aircraft without learning how to land them is nothing to be concerned about.

Learn to relax Cry Tongue Lips Sealed Cool
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The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
 
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stryder
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #7 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 3:09pm
 
[quote Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #5 - Feb 12th, 2011, 9:44am     Hirsi Ali is a charlatan.

She's an opportunist who has lied her way into the Netherlands, and continues to "reconstruct" her own past to make a name for herself amongst the anti-Islamic circles that are rising in Europe.

Anyone with an iota of knowledge about the situation of the Muslim world would pick her tales apart at the seams.

Just for a start, although I'm sure most Westerners (to whom she peddles her nonsense) wouldn't know the difference, the Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Arabia are pretty much complete opposites, and they would certainly not be in any funding arrangement. The Saudi government has funded people to challenge and oppose the Brotherhood, not to help them. But to the gullible Westerners that Hirsi Ali seeks her audience amongst, that would go unnoticed.

] [/quote]


Hirsi ali is well respected for her views on Islam in many circles and her views are very forthright and interesting, of course you would naturally call her a LIAR.

BUT HEY RASHID, MUSLIMS HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH LYING  Grin Grin

Isnt there somewhere in the Koran that permits MUSLIMS to lie to NON MUSLIMS if it is for the advancement of Islam, ????

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stryder
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #8 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 3:12pm
 
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Where have you been? Haven't you heard that Islam is a religion of peace. Just because a few guys became proficient at conducting take-offs in large passenger aircraft without learning how to land them is nothing to be concerned about.

Learn to relax   


MOI, RELAX  Grin Grin Grin

WELL WHY DONT YOU TELL YOUR MUSLIM BROTHERS TO RELAX AND STOP GONG APE poo WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO REFERENCE THE MOHAMMED IN A CARTOON OR A NOVEL,
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jame-e
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #9 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 5:28pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 12th, 2011 at 9:44am:
Just for a start, although I'm sure most Westerners (to whom she peddles her nonsense) wouldn't know the difference, the Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Arabia are pretty much complete opposites, and they would certainly not be in any funding arrangement.


Any idea as to where the money comes from? Is it peoples charity?



What exactly does Hirsi Ali lie about? Everything, or just some things. Give one example of a lie that you have some evidence of, unless it is you who is the charlatan.



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abu_rashid
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #10 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 7:24pm
 
stryder,

Quote:
WELL WHY DONT YOU TELL YOUR MUSLIM BROTHERS TO RELAX AND STOP GONG APE poo WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO REFERENCE THE MOHAMMED IN A CARTOON OR A NOVEL,


salad in is not a Muslim, don't know where you got that one from...

jame-e,

Quote:
Any idea as to where the money comes from? Is it peoples charity?


Yes, through charitable contributions. They may also have some form of membership fee, that is ongoing, not sure about that though. Some other Ikhwaan-inspired groups do.

The sincere Islamic movements usually decided from the outset not to take donations from governments, as those governments then try to control and corrupt them for their own purposes.

Quote:
What exactly does Hirsi Ali lie about?


Probably shorter to list what she doesn't lie about.

Most of her statements about Islam are littered with lies, in order to get publicity. She's an opportunist of the highest order.

Quote:
Give one example of a lie that you have some evidence of, unless it is you who is the charlatan.


Her story about fleeing war and a forced marriage in Somalia and being stuck in refugee camps, for a start.



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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #11 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 8:41pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 7:24pm:
Quote:
Any idea as to where the money comes from? Is it peoples charity?


Yes, through charitable contributions. They may also have some form of membership fee, that is ongoing, not sure about that though. Some other Ikhwaan-inspired groups do.

The sincere Islamic movements usually decided from the outset not to take donations from governments, as those governments then try to control and corrupt them for their own purposes.


So you have no authority in this area?


[/quote]


Quote:
What exactly does Hirsi Ali lie about?


Probably shorter to list what she doesn't lie about.

Most of her statements about Islam are littered with lies, in order to get publicity. She's an opportunist of the highest order.

Quote:
Give one example of a lie that you have some evidence of, unless it is you who is the charlatan.


Her story about fleeing war and a forced marriage in Somalia and being stuck in refugee camps, for a start.

[/quote]



Again, it appears as though you have no authority in this area, and that you are being opportunistic.



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abu_rashid
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #12 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 9:21pm
 
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So you have no authority in this area?


I have enough authority to know the Saudi government specifically funds people to intellectually attack and slander the Muslim Brotherhood, the idea they're funding the Brotherhood is just ludicrous.

It's about as whacky as the idiot idea that al-Qaeda and Iran are in cahoots, nevermind that the two are completely ideologically opposed to one another in every aspect one could imagine.

Or the garbage about al-Qaeda & Saddam.

There's always plenty of gullible fools to swallow it though I guess.

Kinda like the article today in the Herald Sun, where the source of the "Mobile WMD labs" fabrication admitted it was fully concocted. I still remember watching the footage of it on the news, and how they used these satellite images to convince us it was undeniably true.

The entire Western case on Islam is a sham, the Brotherhood being funded by Saudi Arabia is no exception.

It's all built on the fact most people are so incredibly stupid, you could tell 'em anything and they'd just go along with it.


Quote:
Again, it appears as though you have no authority in this area, and that you are being opportunistic.


You asked for examples of her lies, you got 'em. Her lies about Islam began when she was seeking asylum, she was so devoid of any morals or decency, she decided to trash her own religion to convince the Dutch to take her in. So she invented the garbage about forced marriage and escaping civil war and refugee camps, and she hasn't stopped since, especially when she realised how gullible the masses in the West are, and that they'd actually pay her just for telling whoppers about her own cultural background.
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abu_rashid  
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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #13 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 9:40pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 9:21pm:
Quote:
So you have no authority in this area?


I have enough authority to know the Saudi government specifically funds people to intellectually attack and slander the Muslim Brotherhood, the idea they're funding the Brotherhood is just ludicrous.

It's about as whacky as the idiot idea that al-Qaeda and Iran are in cahoots, nevermind that the two are completely ideologically opposed to one another in every aspect one could imagine.

Or the garbage about al-Qaeda & Saddam.

There's always plenty of gullible fools to swallow it though I guess.

Kinda like the article today in the Herald Sun, where the source of the "Mobile WMD labs" fabrication admitted it was fully concocted. I still remember watching the footage of it on the news, and how they used these satellite images to convince us it was undeniably true.

The entire Western case on Islam is a sham, the Brotherhood being funded by Saudi Arabia is no exception.

It's all built on the fact most people are so incredibly stupid, you could tell 'em anything and they'd just go along with it.



There does not appear to be anything in what you have said that in any way differentiates you're self from you're opposition.
Why is the possibility that Saudi Arabia funds the brotherhood ludicrous?

As to the rest, does it surprise you that a power like America has opponents and uses cunning to deal with them? Not unlike the rest of the world.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 9:21pm:
You asked for examples of her lies, you got 'em. Her lies about Islam began when she was seeking asylum, she was so devoid of any morals or decency, she decided to trash her own religion to convince the Dutch to take her in. So she invented the garbage about forced marriage and escaping civil war and refugee camps, and she hasn't stopped since, especially when she realised how gullible the masses in the West are, and that they'd actually pay her just for telling whoppers about her own cultural background.


How do you know this?

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Re: Muslim brotherhood of Egypt
Reply #14 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 10:17pm
 
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So she invented the garbage about forced marriage and escaping civil war and refugee camps


Are you accusing her of lying about Islam, or of lying about her own past?
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