Australian Politics Forum - Proof that Christians are atheists !!

gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !! Reply #45 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:21pm It's very hard to be specific about it, since there are as many different versions of christianity, as there are christian churchs......and they all have slightly different beliefs....
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muso

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #46 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:22pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:01pm:

muso wrote on Feb 12^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 12^th, 2011 at 10:19am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 11^th, 2011 at 9:52pm:

Christians are often baffled as to how atheists could deny the existence of their god, Yahweh. But they shouldn’t be. Christians deny thousands of the same gods that atheists deny. Atheists just deny one more god than Christians do (or three, maybe).

Christians deny nothing of god's existence. Their dispute is with the worship of (what they'd term) false gods over their one god. All supernatural faculties attributed to the many gods, for Christians, are all vested in the one... They have more common cause with Muslims and Hindus than atheists, who disbelieve in the proposition that god/s exist.

The Hindu religion was invented by the British Empire when they gave a name to a strange collection of local and national religious and cultural practices and beliefs (mainly cultural practices) which are often in conflict with each other.

I am not sure about that. What about the Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita?

What I'm saying is that the collective term for these Indian religions is Hinduism, and before the British came along, nobody really placed all these religions in one basket. A Hindu is a follower of one of many non-Vedic Indian religions. The Brits started using the term in that way in the 18th Century. Prior to that a Hindu was a non-religious term that just meant an Indian.

Hinduism is much more diverse than (say) Christianity.

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muso

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #47 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:28pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:18pm:

Not really, no.....there is a great difference between not believing in ANY supreme beings (atheists), and considering other supreme beings to be demons, or devils/evil spirits etc ( monotheists)...

A god doesn't have to be a supreme being. You'd hardly call Bacchus a supreme being, and followers of the cult of Bacchus were theists, not atheists, however I agree that the original premise is a gross generalisation. I realise that it's not original either.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #48 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:32pm

muso wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:28pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:18pm:

Not really, no.....there is a great difference between not believing in ANY supreme beings (atheists), and considering other supreme beings to be demons, or devils/evil spirits etc ( monotheists)...

A god doesn't have to be a supreme being. You'd hardly call Bacchus a supreme being, and followers of the cult of Bacchus were theists, not atheists, however I agree that the original premise is a gross generalisation. I realise that it's not original either.

Perhaps I should have used the terms gods or deities instead of 'supreme being'????

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !! Reply #49 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:34pm gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:32pm: Perhaps I should have used the terms gods or deities instead of 'supreme being'???? Yeah. Bacchus is more of a supremely pissed being.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #50 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:44pm

muso wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 7:53am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 12^th, 2011 at 10:58pm:

Your response prompted me to recall the "Johari Window" concept.

I may need to start a separate topic on that though.

Yes. Lao Zi invented the concept of individual windows on the world in the "Daodejing" about 2500 years ago, but that's a separate topic again.

He extended the concepts of windows or frames of reference to relative good and bad. Now I know that we see different things out of our windows in that respect, but "de gustibus non est disputandum".

Quote:

The Horse

Once upon a time in a village in ancient China there was an old man who lived alone with his son. They were very poor. They had just a small plot of land outside the village to grow rice and vegetables and a rude hut to live in. But they also had a good mare. It was the son's pride and joy, and their only possession of value.

One day the mare ran away.The old man's friends came to him and commiserated. "What a wonderful mare that was!" they said. "What bad fortune that she ran off!"
"Who can tell?" the old man said.

Two weeks later the mare returned accompanied by a fine barbarian stallion. Friends and neighbors all came around and congratulated the old man. "Now you have your mare back, and that stallion is as fine as any in the land. What a stroke of good fortune!"
"Who can tell?" the old man said.
Two weeks later the son fell off the stallion while riding and broke his leg. Friends of the old man came to him to express their sympathy. "It's too bad your son broke his leg, and right before the planting season, too. What bad luck!"
"Who can tell?" the old man said.

Two weeks later, war came to the land, and all able-bodied young men were drafted. The troop that contained the men from the village was at the front in a bloody engagement, and the entire troop was lost. All the men from the village died in battle.

The young man with the broken leg stayed home. His leg healed. He and his father bred many fine horses, and tended their fields.

(Huai Nan Tzu)

Excellent post! I do believe it's time we started a new topic regarding this. There is much to be said for WINDOWS .. and so much to be learned

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #51 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:45pm

muso wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:34pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:32pm:

Perhaps I should have used the terms gods or deities instead of 'supreme being'????

Yeah. Bacchus is more of a supremely pissed being.

LOL but he was the supreme being who made wine ferment....so.......I feel that is a supreme idea...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Equitist

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #52 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:47pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

It's very hard to be specific about it, since there are as many different versions of christianity, as there are christian churchs......and they all have slightly different beliefs....

It has been a long time since I basically came to the conclusion that: there are as many religions in this world as there are religious people - since each and every religious person both adopts and rejects a range of moral and theological ingredients for their life (and death), according to what most suits their own ego and personal agenda/s, to cook up their own religious recipe...

Only an ignoramus and/or dogmatist would believe otherwise!

BTW, the same goes for Agnostics and Atheists - who will also devise their own moral code but will make a conscious decision to either remain ambivalent or to reject all religions - and who may or may not adopt a different form of 'spirituality'...

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #53 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:54pm

Equitist wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:47pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

It's very hard to be specific about it, since there are as many different versions of christianity, as there are christian churchs......and they all have slightly different beliefs....

It has been a long time since I basically came to the conclusion that: there are as many religions in this world as there are religious people - since each and every religious person both adopts and rejects a range of moral and theological ingredients for their life (and death), according to what most suits their own ego and personal agenda/s, to cook up their own religious recipe...

Only an ignoramus and/or dogmatist would believe otherwise!

BTW, the same goes for Agnostics and Atheists - who will also devise their own moral code but will make a conscious decision to either remain ambivalent or to reject all religions - and who may or may not adopt a different form of 'spirituality'...

Yes, that's why there are so many different versions of each religion....Just look a how many different 'churches' exist within christianity (for example)...each is slightly different.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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muso

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #54 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 2:31pm

Equitist wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:47pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

It's very hard to be specific about it, since there are as many different versions of christianity, as there are christian churchs......and they all have slightly different beliefs....

It has been a long time since I basically came to the conclusion that: there are as many religions in this world as there are religious people - since each and every religious person both adopts and rejects a range of moral and theological ingredients for their life (and death), according to what most suits their own ego and personal agenda/s, to cook up their own religious recipe...

Only an ignoramus and/or dogmatist would believe otherwise!

Exactly. That sums up how I feel too. I find anti-theists to be as irritating as evangelicals these days.

Atheists and Christians are really not that different. The important thing for me is the thought processes rather than the beliefs.

Who cares if you believe in God or not? Such a belief (or lack of) doesn't say anything about the person and how they go about their life.

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Equitist

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #55 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 2:51pm

Here's a poignant illustration of today's tangent: -

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1297475999/47#47

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 2:41pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 12^th, 2011 at 9:13pm:

tln, I agree.
Luke is from the new testament, so for christians.
Levicitus is from the old testament, so for jews.

Both of you are wrong. ANY sin excludes you from heaven - from the smallest to the largest.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !! Reply #56 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 3:10pm Ahh many thanks Equitist for bringing that contentious topic to my attention. I've sorted that little discrepancy out now. >> pensively ponders why it must take a woman to correct/reassure men .. sighs <<
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !! Reply #57 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 3:11pm Everyone's religion is right and all the others are wrong. Enlightenment comes from within.
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Equitist

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #58 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 3:11pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 3:10pm:

Ahh many thanks Equitist for bringing that contentious topic to my attention.

I've sorted that little discrepancy out.

>> pensively ponders why it must take a woman to correct/reassure men .. sighs <<

LOL...

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1297475999/47#47

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 2:41pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 12^th, 2011 at 9:13pm:

tln, I agree.
Luke is from the new testament, so for christians.
Levicitus is from the old testament, so for jews.

Both of you are wrong. ANY sin excludes you from heaven - from the smallest to the largest.

Actually both of you are right.

Remember the Old Testament is a shadow of and is confirmed by the New Testament.

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Proof that Christians are atheists !!
Reply #59 - Feb 13^th, 2011 at 3:17pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 13^th, 2011 at 3:10pm:

Ahh many thanks Equitist for bringing that contentious topic to my attention.

I've sorted that little discrepancy out now.

>> pensively ponders why it must take a woman to correct/reassure men .. sighs <<

It doesn't....we men just let you THINK it does...LOL (sarcasm)

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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