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Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review (Read 9509 times)
whatsforme
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #15 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:48pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
whatsforme wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 5:27pm:
<<So Andrei, you going to send your kids to public school? And if not, why?>>

If you are a product of the public system than I would suggest Andrie would have to say NO.


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
I am a product of public school.  And I believe that while obviously private school provides students with more opportunities, in the end it is up to you what you do in school and how you go.

That is clearly shown by the fact that I did quite well in school and you thought that the internet was running out of english names, not IP addresses. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



Hey dopey show me the post?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #16 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:54pm
 
I think people get a bit hung up on schooling and the 'type' of school.

My wife went to a public school in North Queensland, I went to a private school which cost a fortune in Britain.
Year on year in the last few years she out-earned me by a good $5k per year.

My father went to a right drop-kick school in Britain, my mother went to a pretty elite Afrikaans school in Apartheid South Africa.
He supported the family and out earned her several times over.

Two personal examples (which i know Longweekend hates but I find them real world to me) of how the type of school means little the character of the person means everything.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #17 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 8:10pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:54pm:
I think people get a bit hung up on schooling and the 'type' of school.

My wife went to a public school in North Queensland, I went to a private school which cost a fortune in Britain.
Year on year in the last few years she out-earned me by a good $5k per year.

My father went to a right drop-kick school in Britain, my mother went to a pretty elite Afrikaans school in Apartheid South Africa.
He supported the family and out earned her several times over.

Two personal examples (which i know Longweekend hates but I find them real world to me) of how the type of school means little the character of the person means everything.



defining the world based on your own experience and that of your parents might give you a great deal of comfort, but what it doesnt do is deliver a world-view based on facts. That outcomes of private educated people is measurebly better than public educated ones is an irrefutable fact - like it or not. Your personal experience is not the world in microcosm. You need to look outward and read more than margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and your father's diary.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #18 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 9:45pm
 
whatsforme wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:48pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
whatsforme wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 5:27pm:
<<So Andrei, you going to send your kids to public school? And if not, why?>>

If you are a product of the public system than I would suggest Andrie would have to say NO.


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
I am a product of public school.  And I believe that while obviously private school provides students with more opportunities, in the end it is up to you what you do in school and how you go.

That is clearly shown by the fact that I did quite well in school and you thought that the internet was running out of english names, not IP addresses. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



Hey dopey show me the post?



Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295824310
Reply #7

Obviously neither public or private could've helped you.

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #19 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 9:52pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 8:10pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:54pm:
I think people get a bit hung up on schooling and the 'type' of school.

My wife went to a public school in North Queensland, I went to a private school which cost a fortune in Britain.
Year on year in the last few years she out-earned me by a good $5k per year.

My father went to a right drop-kick school in Britain, my mother went to a pretty elite Afrikaans school in Apartheid South Africa.
He supported the family and out earned her several times over.

Two personal examples (which i know Longweekend hates but I find them real world to me) of how the type of school means little the character of the person means everything.



defining the world based on your own experience and that of your parents might give you a great deal of comfort, but what it doesnt do is deliver a world-view based on facts. That outcomes of private educated people is measurebly better than public educated ones is an irrefutable fact - like it or not. Your personal experience is not the world in microcosm. You need to look outward and read more than margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and your father's diary.


Agree that private schooling does provide students a lot more opportunities when we consider the state of some of the public schools.  From a point of view however, I agree that public school funding is not the responsibility of the federal government, and Howard's reasoning of every child receiving the same support from the government regardless of private/public makes sense.  What I would like to see however is that idea actually taken up in a more efficient way then the way it currently works.  I know private schools are against a "voucher" based system where each child is handed a $1000 voucher that goes to their school because they state it gives them uncertainty in terms of funding, and as a result they can't plan their curriculum.  I think that's absolute crap. Schools do analysis and predict what their intake will be each year, and for future years. Based on that alone they can still do their predictions, and given budgets are a living document, they can alter where necessary. But it makes more sense to use a voucher based system, especially given that the federal government's position is that "each child deserves the same opportunities" etc. etc.

I also note I said before that it's up to the student to take advantage of their education, and actually put effort into their education rather than expect to be taught.  That being said, public schools are underfunded in each state, and with the extra funding that a voucher based system can bring to them it might actually give them resources to allow different approaches towards teaching that get their students interested, and as a result take advantage of the AUstralian school system.
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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whatsforme
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #20 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 5:55am
 
<<I am a product of public school.  And I believe that while obviously private school provides students with more opportunities, in the end it is up to you what you do in school and how you go.

That is clearly shown by the fact that I did quite well in school and you thought that the internet was running out of english names, not IP addresses.>>
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whatsforme
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #21 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 6:01am
 
Clearly you misunderstood the above post. It points out that the English language has over 1,000,000 words and more words are coming into it everyday so how is it possible to run out of internet names.

Now show me where it says anything about English names.

Yep you done weal good at skol d1ckhead.
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whatsforme
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #22 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 6:07am
 
Guess how many words there are in the Chinese language alevere?

Give up?

I will help you out here...Over 15,000,000.
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buzzanddidj
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #23 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 6:17am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:54pm:
 

I went to a private school which cost a fortune in Britain.






A "working class" private school ?






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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
 
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philperth2010
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #24 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 7:22am
 
Parents bear the burden of surging private fees Anna Patty
January 23, 2011

THE state's richest schools are more out of reach than ever to ordinary families. In the 10 years since the Howard government introduced a funding system to make private schools more affordable, the most expensive schools' fees have risen by about 100 per cent - against inflation of 37 per cent.

At Trinity Grammar, a private school for boys in primary and high school, year 12 fees have increased from $10,020 in 2001 to $25,330 this year - a rise of 153 per cent.

Scots College, at Bellevue Hill, will charge as much as $28,296 for year 12 day students this year. Scots' headmaster Ian Lambert said this was all-inclusive, unlike schools that charged for additional expenses.

Advertisement: Story continues below The Howard government made assurances that its socio-economic status funding model, introduced in 2001, would keep a lid on fee rises. The model aims to allocate funding to schools based on the socio-economic status of the families of their students. But it uses census data to measure the average wealth of families in the areas where they live.

This has drawn criticism of the funding for schools such as Kings, which draws some of its students from wealthy farming families, even if they live in relatively poor areas.

Under its ''no losers'' policy, the Howard government refused to cut funding to schools, even if they were entitled to less under the new funding arrangement. This has meant that more than half the schools funded under the system have received more than their strict entitlement.

The Rudd and Gillard governments have maintained the $27 billion four-year funding arrangement, despite a federal Department of Education review finding it delivered $2.7 billion in overpayments. The inflated payments will grow to at least $3 billion by the end of 2016 if the current system continues.

The Gillard government has commissioned a panel of eminent Australians, headed by Sydney businessman David Gonski, to review schools funding. Mr Gonski told a recent meeting of the Australian Education Union that the charge for his panel was to address disadvantage. He said a direct measure of parents' income or occupation might be a more effective measure for funding needs than census data.

''The panel believes that the focus on equity should be ensuring that differences in educational outcomes are not the result of differences in wealth, income, power or possession,'' he said. The funding system should be ''transparent, fair, equitable and financially sustainable''.

Of NSW's 20 most expensive schools, the 17 that provided full details lifted fees by an average of 102 per cent between 2001 and 2011. Cranbrook, at Bellevue Hill, managed a surplus $8.4 million while receiving a Commonwealth subsidy of $3.5 million. Malek Fahd Islamic school, at Greenacre, got one of the biggest subsidies - $15.46 million.

The Sydney Anglican Schools Corporation, which oversees 16 schools including Roseville College, received $88 million in government revenue in 2009, when it also posted a $20.7 million surplus. In 2004 the corporation received $45.4 million and posted a $13.95 million surplus.

Laurie Scandrett, chief executive of the corporation, said enrolments had increased by 28 per cent between 2004 to 2009.

Funding for independent schools is tied to the average recurrent cost of funding government secondary schools, which rose by 24 per cent between 2004 and 2009.

''Multiply these together and that will explain the increase in the government revenue,'' Dr Scandrett said.

In 2009, he said, parents had paid $85 million in addition to the $88 million in government subsidies.

Some of the ''accounting surplus'' included capital grants, such as those awarded under the Building the Education Revolution. Of the $20.7 million surplus, $12 million was used to pay loans on school land and buildings; the rest went to capital works.

''Any surplus earnings, after day-to-day operating expenses are deducted, are retained for SASC's self-preservation, expansion and future plans,'' he said.

The chief executive of the Association of Independent Schools NSW, Geoff Newcombe, said education costs had increased by about 8 per cent last year and on average about 6 per cent a year since 2001.

''Independent school fees have to take into account both recurrent and capital costs, so it is not surprising that fees have had to increase at or above these average figures over the years,'' Dr Newcombe said.

Trevor Cobold, from Save Our Schools, a public school advocacy group, said the wealthiest schools had become more exclusive. ''The fee increase is more than double the cost increases in private schools. The wage price index for private education and training increased by only 44 per cent between 2001 and 2010 …

The school funding review has to put a stop to this appalling waste of taxpayer funds.''

A Greens NSW MP John Kaye said: ''There are grave concerns that Julia Gillard's schools funding review panel will not understand the frustration felt by public sector teachers and parents after 11 years of watching ever greater amounts of government money flooding into wealthy private schools.''

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/back-to-school/parents-bear-the-burden-of-surging-private-fees-20110122-1a0jq.html

Smiley
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #25 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 7:39am
 
"A "working class" private school ?"


Their uniform had blue collars.








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longweekend58
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #26 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 7:50am
 
philperth2010 wrote on Jan 25th, 2011 at 7:22am:
Parents bear the burden of surging private fees Anna Patty
January 23, 2011

THE state's richest schools are more out of reach than ever to ordinary families. In the 10 years since the Howard government introduced a funding system to make private schools more affordable, the most expensive schools' fees have risen by about 100 per cent - against inflation of 37 per cent.

At Trinity Grammar, a private school for boys in primary and high school, year 12 fees have increased from $10,020 in 2001 to $25,330 this year - a rise of 153 per cent.

Scots College, at Bellevue Hill, will charge as much as $28,296 for year 12 day students this year. Scots' headmaster Ian Lambert said this was all-inclusive, unlike schools that charged for additional expenses.

Advertisement: Story continues below The Howard government made assurances that its socio-economic status funding model, introduced in 2001, would keep a lid on fee rises. The model aims to allocate funding to schools based on the socio-economic status of the families of their students. But it uses census data to measure the average wealth of families in the areas where they live.

This has drawn criticism of the funding for schools such as Kings, which draws some of its students from wealthy farming families, even if they live in relatively poor areas.

Under its ''no losers'' policy, the Howard government refused to cut funding to schools, even if they were entitled to less under the new funding arrangement. This has meant that more than half the schools funded under the system have received more than their strict entitlement.

The Rudd and Gillard governments have maintained the $27 billion four-year funding arrangement, despite a federal Department of Education review finding it delivered $2.7 billion in overpayments. The inflated payments will grow to at least $3 billion by the end of 2016 if the current system continues.

The Gillard government has commissioned a panel of eminent Australians, headed by Sydney businessman David Gonski, to review schools funding. Mr Gonski told a recent meeting of the Australian Education Union that the charge for his panel was to address disadvantage. He said a direct measure of parents' income or occupation might be a more effective measure for funding needs than census data.

''The panel believes that the focus on equity should be ensuring that differences in educational outcomes are not the result of differences in wealth, income, power or possession,'' he said. The funding system should be ''transparent, fair, equitable and financially sustainable''.

Of NSW's 20 most expensive schools, the 17 that provided full details lifted fees by an average of 102 per cent between 2001 and 2011. Cranbrook, at Bellevue Hill, managed a surplus $8.4 million while receiving a Commonwealth subsidy of $3.5 million. Malek Fahd Islamic school, at Greenacre, got one of the biggest subsidies - $15.46 million.

The Sydney Anglican Schools Corporation, which oversees 16 schools including Roseville College, received $88 million in government revenue in 2009, when it also posted a $20.7 million surplus. In 2004 the corporation received $45.4 million and posted a $13.95 million surplus.

Laurie Scandrett, chief executive of the corporation, said enrolments had increased by 28 per cent between 2004 to 2009.

Funding for independent schools is tied to the average recurrent cost of funding government secondary schools, which rose by 24 per cent between 2004 and 2009.

''Multiply these together and that will explain the increase in the government revenue,'' Dr Scandrett said.

In 2009, he said, parents had paid $85 million in addition to the $88 million in government subsidies.

The school funding review has to put a stop to this appalling waste of taxpayer funds.''

A Greens NSW MP John Kaye said: ''There are grave concerns that Julia Gillard's schools funding review panel will not understand the frustration felt by public sector teachers and parents after 11 years of watching ever greater amounts of government money flooding into wealthy private schools.''

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/back-to-school/parents-bear-the-burden-of-surging-private-fees-20110122-1a0jq.html

Smiley


This is just the same old envy-based nonsense, using 20 elite schools to mask the argument for 4000 private schools. A proper value-based argument would come up with a very different result.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #27 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 8:14am
 
I don't get what people's hang-up about private and public schools are about most of the time.

Some people get quite worked up about it, really for no reason.

From what I can see and have experienced, I think the schools system works pretty fine as it is.

I see no need to change it.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #28 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 8:23am
 
whatsforme wrote on Jan 25th, 2011 at 6:01am:
Clearly you misunderstood the above post. It points out that the English language has over 1,000,000 words and more words are coming into it everyday so how is it possible to run out of internet names.

Now show me where it says anything about English names.

Yep you done weal good at skol d1ckhead.


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
OMG You just love to dig the hole even deeper don't you!!!!
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
What am absolute nuff!!!  hahahahaahahahahaahahaha!
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Private Schools ~ Public Funding Review
Reply #29 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 8:24am
 
whatsforme wrote on Jan 25th, 2011 at 6:07am:
Guess how many words there are in the Chinese language alevere?

Give up?

I will help you out here...Over 15,000,000.


ooOOoooh wow Smiley Can I have your autograph, Mr. Genius? 

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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