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Christmas in Gaza (Read 3245 times)
abu_rashid
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Christmas in Gaza
Jan 8th, 2011 at 5:15pm
 
Christmas in Bethlehem off limits for Gaza's Christians

Eva Bartlett, The Electronic Intifada, 7 January 2011


GAZA CITY, occupied Gaza Strip (IPS) - "We try to be happy and celebrate with our families during Christmas, but the atmosphere is not cheery as in other parts of the world," says Hossam Tawwil. And as around Christmas on 25 December, so for Orthodox Christians preparing to celebrate Christmas on 7 January.

"We are from Palestine and our lives aren't easy: we are under occupation, under siege, and we're prevented from visiting our holy city, Bethlehem," says Tawwil, Member of Parliament in Gaza. "We don't truly feel like we are celebrating holy days, not in the way we'd like to."

Bendali Tarazi is a Christian living in Gaza City. "We celebrate Christmas as we can. On Christmas morning, my family and I pray at the church, and after the service we visit our relatives then go home for a Christmas meal together."

Like most Palestinians in Gaza, Tarazi suffers from Gaza's imprisonment under siege and the constant threat and reality of Israeli attacks.

"Everything is difficult here, for all Palestinians, not just Christians. We are in a huge prison together, and not just locked in but under complete siege, where virtually nothing and no one gets in or out through the borders. And there are constantly new Israeli bombings and demolitions."

Israeli authorities and various news outlets announced exit permits for 500 Gazan Christians to Bethlehem this Christmas. But Tawwil says this news is not as it seems.

"Of the 500, there are Orthodox Christians and Catholic Christians. The Catholics celebrate on 25 December, and the Orthodox celebrate on 7 January. Those who celebrate in January were given permits to go to Bethlehem before their holy day. Those Christians who would like to have gone for the 25th didn't get a permit."

Bethlehem and Jerusalem are two of Palestine's holiest sites, and for both Christians and Muslims, they are infinitely out of reach.

"The Israeli occupation authorities prevent Christians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank from going to Bethlehem at Christmas just as they prevent Muslims from going to al-Quds [Jerusalem] during Ramadan," Tawwil says.

Attaining a permit is no easy matter. "You must be older than 35 years, which immediately eliminates the majority of Gazans," explains Tawwil. "And, the Israeli occupation forces arbitrarily decide who may exit or not, regardless of age or even holding a permit. They never have to explain the reason why."

According to Tawwil, although 500 Palestinians from Gaza may have been granted exit permits, in reality not all 500 will be able to leave, or want to, depending on when they celebrate Christ's birth.

Bendali Tarazi has experience with this. "Last year I got a permit to travel to Bethlehem, but when we learned that my wife didn't get one, I couldn't leave without her, as much as I wanted to see Bethlehem at Christmas. It's our holy city, our land, but we aren't allowed to go to it at the most important time of the year."

This is common, says Hossam Tawwil. "Sometimes parents will get the permit but their children will not, so no one goes. Or only one of a couple will get the permit, so neither goes."

Families suffer from other siege and war-related consequences.

"Virtually every family has lost someone from their family. Maybe they have a child imprisoned in an Israeli jail, or who was martyred in Israeli attacks, or was ill and died because he couldn't get treatment under the siege," Tawwil says. "During holidays families remember their lost loved ones all the more. Any holiday, without loves ones, isn't a good holiday."

With Israeli attacks newly escalating, the threat of a new war on Gaza clouds the holiday merriment. "Many feel there is a new Israeli war coming to Gaza soon. There are already random bombings," Tawwil says.

The siege and war-orchestrated financial disaster of Gaza's economy means that families lack the money and means to celebrate as Christians worldwide might.

"No work, no money, we can't buy the gifts and special foods that make the holiday magical," says Tawwil.

Tawwil disputes reports of Muslim-Christian animosity. "Muslims have the same problems as Christians do in Gaza. We live together, as neighbors, under the same siege, occupation and same Israeli attacks."

Ahmed Mahdi, a Muslim in Gaza City, has Christian neighbors. "We are good friends with our neighbors, and visit them during their Christian holidays," Mahdi says. "And they visit us during our Muslim holidays. We feel and act like family."

Like Mahdi, Tawwil and other Christians share Muslim holy times.

"We are with them for Muslim holidays, we celebrate with them as if its our holiday. We don't feel a difference between Muslims and Christians in Gaza."

"The occupation does not allow for freedom for any religion other than Judaism. Aside from banning us from our holy places, the Israelis have attacked and destroyed our churches and mosques," notes Hossam Tawwil.

Ahmed Mahdi's message is simple. "I just wish that this year is better for Palestine's Christians, and that Christians everywhere celebrate and enjoy their holy day."

Source: Electronic Intifada
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2011 at 6:05pm
 
Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #2 - Jan 8th, 2011 at 7:26pm
 
Abu do you know why the muslims are pissed off with the coptics? Apparently there were serious threats to bomb coptic churches yesterday (christmas day for them). It included 4 in sydney.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #3 - Jan 8th, 2011 at 8:09pm
 
Quote:
Abu do you know why the muslims are pissed off with the coptics?


Yes.

They kidnapped and are holding hostage two women who converted to Islam.
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abu_rashid  
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GH
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2011 at 8:32pm
 
What complete and utter garbage !!

What are you talking about?

The Moslem
[mod: speak nice, or scat]
in Egypt over the last year, have reduced the total of Copts in the country to a third of what it was.


Then we have your lies in regards to Bethlehem

IT seems one of the victims of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism seems to be the Christians of Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus. The Christian population has been in massive decline for years and lest you wish to place the blame on the Jews, allow me to present this recent story wherein Samir Qumsieh, director of the Catholic television station Al-Mahed Nativity TV in Bethlehem is interviewed about the state of Christendom in the Palestinian territories.

   This Christmas in Bethlehem, the cross has been banned from souvenirs for tourists and pilgrims in the Holy Land. Some textile workshops in Jerusalem and Hebron have begun to print and sell T-shirts depicting the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem without the cross. Because of the growth of Islamic fundamentalism in the Palestinian territories, the cross was also removed from t-shirts of football teams. Interviewed by AsiaNews, Samir Qumsieh, journalist and director of the Catholic television station Al-Mahed Nativity TV in Bethlehem, said: “I want to launch a campaign to urge people not to buy these products – he says – because the removal of the cross is an intimidation against Christians, it is like saying that Jesus was never crucified. “

The article continues:

   Qumsieh points out that from 2002 to 2010 the Christian population of Bethlehem has dropped from over 18 thousand to 11 thousand people. In Gaza, after Hamas came to power in 2006, Christians have fallen by about 3,200 units, from 5 thousand to less than 1800 in 2010. Only 15,400 Christians (2% of the population) live in Jerusalem, as reported in a study by the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies. They are 50% less than the 31 thousand registered residents in 1948, when Christians accounted for 20% of the population of the city… The reporter says that if this exodus continues there will be no more Catholics in the Holy Land and that one day the Church of the Nativity could be turned into a museum. “If there are no more Christians in the Holy Land – he says – then there will no longer be Christians anywhere.”


abu_rashid wrote on Jan 8th, 2011 at 8:09pm:
Quote:
Abu do you know why the muslims are pissed off with the coptics?


Yes.

They kidnapped and are holding hostage two women who converted to Islam.

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« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:57pm by abu_rashid »  
 
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GH
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #5 - Jan 9th, 2011 at 8:34pm
 
Here is the article mentioned.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Christmas-in-Bethlehem:-the-cross-banished-from-s...

12/22/2010 09:29
PALESTINE - ISRAEL
Christmas in Bethlehem: the cross banished from souvenirs
For fear of Islamic fundamentalism, textile workshops in Hebron and Jerusalem, produce and sell T-shirts and other items depicting the Church of the Nativity without the cross. Discrimination and economic crisis are forcing Christians to flee from the Palestinian territories and Israel. The risk is to see a future without Christians in the Holy Land. Interview with Samir Qumsieh, director of the Catholic television station Al-Mahed Nativity TV in Bethlehem.

Bethlehem (AsiaNews) - This Christmas in Bethlehem, the cross has been banned from souvenirs for tourists and pilgrims in the Holy Land. Some textile workshops in Jerusalem and Hebron have begun to print and sell T-shirts depicting the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem without the cross. Because of the growth of Islamic fundamentalism in the Palestinian territories, the cross was also removed from t-shirts of football teams. Interviewed by AsiaNews, Samir Qumsieh, journalist and director of the Catholic television station Al-Mahed Nativity TV in Bethlehem, said: "I want to launch a campaign to urge people not to buy these products - he says - because the removal of the cross is an intimidation against Christians, it is like saying that Jesus was never crucified. "

Like every year, thousands including authorities, faithful and tourists from all over the world crowd, the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem for midnight mass on the night of 24 December. It will be celebrated by the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem and will be attended by the highest offices of the Palestinian Authority.

Qumsieh says that the population is living these days with joy, but the situation for Christians is still dramatic. According to the journalist, the dialogue of recent years between Muslims, Christians and Jews has not changed the situation.

"In the Holy Land - said Qumsieh - the emigration of Christians is growing, even if the authorities refuse to give precise numbers. Every day there are people who flee to other countries. As Christians, we live in a constant feeling of fear and uncertainty, and if you live in constant tension and pessimism you can not plan anything.

According to the journalist, "people leave because there is no work and movement is restricted under Israeli control." Other factors are the internal problems of Palestine, such as the clash between Hamas and Fatah, which has repercussions on the economic situation. Qumsieh points out that from 2002 to 2010 the Christian population of Bethlehem has dropped from over 18 thousand to 11 thousand people. In Gaza, after Hamas came to power in 2006, Christians have fallen by about 3,200 units, from 5 thousand to less than 1800 in 2010. Only 15,400 Christians (2% of the population) live in Jerusalem, as reported in a study by the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies. They are 50% less than the 31 thousand registered residents in 1948, when Christians accounted for 20% of the population of the city.

The reporter says that if this exodus continues there will be no more Catholics in the Holy Land and that one day the Church of the Nativity could be turned into a museum. "If there are no more Christians in the Holy Land - he says – then there will no longer be Christians anywhere."

Meanwhile, on the occasion of the celebrations for Christmas, the Israeli military has ordered troops deployed in the occupied Palestinian territories to facilitate the passage of Christian pilgrims at checkpoints. The military has also distributed a brochure explaining the importance of Christmas for Christians and is urging soldiers to avoid unnecessary discussions and obstacles at the borders with the West Bank.
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #6 - Jan 9th, 2011 at 10:25pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 8th, 2011 at 8:09pm:
Quote:
Abu do you know why the muslims are pissed off with the coptics?


Yes.

They kidnapped and are holding hostage two women who converted to Islam.


Do you see it as a reasonable response?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:30pm
 
GH,

Quote:
The Moslem [mod: speak nice, or scat] in Egypt over the last year, have reduced the total of Copts in the country to a third of what it was.


You are on drugs right?

You're trying to say that prior to 1 year ago, Christians in Egypt were not ~10%, but were ~30%??? LOL Do you have some kind of evidence or statistics to back this up?

Perhaps you left off some 0's, and actually meant over the last 1000 years Copts have reduced to 10%?

Quote:
IT seems one of the victims of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism seems to be the Christians of Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus.


Bethlehem, and all of Palestine were ruled by Islamic shari'ah for over 1200 years, yet Christians thrived there.

Since 1948 (wonder what happened in that year???) Christian numbers in the holy land have decreased dramatically.... yet supposedly Islam is to blame? What a crock.

As Hussam Tawwil (ie. a Palestinian Christian himself) mentions above:

"Virtually every family has lost someone from their family. Maybe they have a child imprisoned in an Israeli jail, or who was martyred in Israeli attacks, or was ill and died because he couldn't get treatment under the siege,"

"Muslims have the same problems as Christians do in Gaza. We live together, as neighbors, under the same siege, occupation and same Israeli attacks."

"We are with them for Muslim holidays, we celebrate with them as if its our holiday. We don't feel a difference between Muslims and Christians in Gaza."

"The occupation does not allow for freedom for any religion other than Judaism. Aside from banning us from our holy places, the Israelis have attacked and destroyed our churches and mosques,"


Seems you're not interested in what Palestinian Christians are going through, only in what Zionist propaganda tells you to believe.

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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:37pm
 
Quote:
Do you see it as a reasonable response?


Honestly I am insulted fd. You continually question me as if I support such horrific acts, when I have never done so, in fact it's only you guys here who have supported this kind of thing.

Murdering civilians blindly is plain wrong, and you are the ones who need to learn this, because the West are the ones who day in day out are murdering civilians. Then you try and find one little isolated desperate incident like this, and claim that Islam promotes attacking civilians.

You come here harping on about this case of ~20 civilians being killed, yet whilst you wrote your post out, another 20 or more Muslim civilians have been murdered by your own armies and leaders.

On the same token, if they're going to take Muslim women hostage then they have to be prepared to face the consequences. It is their own authorities who've done this, not some loner extremist group. The Copts should be rallying their leaders to release these poor women.

And that's the real crux of this isn't it? Western/Christian _authorities_ and armies and other official arms carry out unspeakable acts against poor defenceless Muslims, and lazy thinkers like yourself don't even bat an eyelid, yet if some fringe Muslim movement _replies_ in kind, you're all over it like it's the only news that exists.

You are intellectually bankrupt fd, and that's why you raise such poor and pathetically lop-sided issues.
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #9 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 7:21am
 
Quote:
Murdering civilians blindly is plain wrong, and you are the ones who need to learn this, because the West are the ones who day in day out are murdering civilians.


I am not doing this any more than you are.

Quote:
Honestly I am insulted fd. You continually question me as if I support such horrific acts....


Quote:
....On the same token, if they're going to take Muslim women hostage then they have to be prepared to face the consequences. It is their own authorities who've done this, not some loner extremist group. The Copts should be rallying their leaders to release these poor women.


Abu could you give us a bit more detail about these kidnappings? If it wasn't for the involvement of Muslims, I don't think anyone would consider 'being prepared to face the consequences' to include churches getting bombed. Do the four churches in Sydney have anything to do with it?
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #10 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 10:19am
 
Quote:
I am not doing this any more than you are.


So you don't "support our troops"? You don't support the West's incursion into Afghanistan?

Quote:
Abu could you give us a bit more detail about these kidnappings?


Although there's been a lot of cases, there were two very high profile ones, as the women were former wives of priests in the Coptic church. Their names were Wafaa Constantine and Camilia Shehata (you can read about them here). They were kidnapped by the government's security forces under pressure from massive demonstrations and riots by Copts. They were then handed over to the Coptic church and have since disappeared, apparently being held captive in monastries and tortured, reportedly to death.

Quote:
If it wasn't for the involvement of Muslims, I don't think anyone would consider 'being prepared to face the consequences' to include churches getting bombed.


I can't quite decipher what this is supposed to mean. Can you possibly unwrap all your anti-Islamic hints and innuendo from it and put it in plainer English.

Quote:
Do the four churches in Sydney have anything to do with it?


Not quite sure what four churches you mean (got a link?), if they're Coptic, then I guess the link would be that they are part of the organisation whose leadership (note, not some rogue individuals, the actual leadership) are holding these women captive.
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #11 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 1:02pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 10:19am:
.
Quote:
Abu could you give us a bit more detail about these kidnappings?


Although there's been a lot of cases, there were two very high profile ones, as the women were former wives of priests in the Coptic church. Their names were Wafaa Constantine and Camilia Shehata (you can read about them here). They were kidnapped by the government's security forces under pressure from massive demonstrations and riots by Copts. They were then handed over to the Coptic church and have since disappeared, apparently being held captive in monastries and tortured, reportedly to death.




Yes there are many, many, other cases within moslem majority countries, of the attempted 'criminal' kidnapping of women and girls - by their Christian parents/ families.
/sarc off




e.g.
In Pakistan; TWO CHRISTIAN GIRLS, 13- AND 10-YEAR-OLD GIRLS, chose to convert to ISLAM [oh yeah! the other one plays Jingle Bells.].

And these young Christian girls are given shelter by moslems - OF COURSE!

And their 'wicked' Christian parents tried to 'kidnap' these young, 13- AND 10-YEAR-OLD GIRLS, from their moslem 'protectors'.

Sure, sure Abu!

Pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells.


e.g.
Quote:
.
July 12, 2008
Pakistan: Christian girls kidnapped; captors file for custody, claiming girls converted to Islam
And the police weren't about to be of any help without outside pressure: The girls' father "was told to 'remain silent,' as the officers said the girls had embraced Islam in a written statement."
"Pakistan: Girls kidnapped, allegedly forced to convert,"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/021731.php



July 14, 2008
Pakistan: 13- and 10-year-old girls abducted, raped, and forced into the fold of Islam
More Christian girls being forced to convert to the religion of peace. As this report notes, the Muslim majority, including the police, are either actively or passively aiding the abductors, a common phenomenon in Muslim majority countries, such as Egypt, where Coptic girls are regularly abducted.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/021760.php



update....

July 20, 2008
Pakistan: Court grants custody of Christian girls to Muslim kidnappers
Because they converted to Islam, you see. More on this story. "Pakistan: Court Grants Custody of Girls to Kidnappers," from Compass Direct News, July 18:
  ISTANBUL, July 18 (Compass Direct News) A Pakistani couple has appealed a court decision to award custody of their two daughters, 10 and 13, to the children’s alleged kidnappers. The court based its custody decision on the girls’ conversion to Islam.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/021866.php



January 14, 2009
Pakistan: Christian girls drugged, coverted to Islam, sold as sex slaves
Muslim men are permitted to have sex with the "captives their right hands possess" (Qur'an 4:24). "Christian Girls Drugged and Sold As Sex Slaves in Pakistan," from AINA, January 13:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/024393.php



here on Oz Pol...
" 'Aussie Fritzl' emerges"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1253145391/2#2





What are you ppl going to believe ???      Cheesy

That;

1/ That two 10 & 13 year old Christian girls, freely choose to convert to ISLAM, and were subsequently given sanctuary by moslem men?

OR,

2/ That two 10 & 13 year old Christian girls, living within moslem majority country, were kidnapped BY MOSLEM MEN, and their families were told that these young girls chose to convert to ISLAM, and THEREFORE, they cannot, and would not be returned to their Christian parents ?



Well if you are Abu, OF COURSE, you will believe #1.



Now Abu, what was that which you were trying to convince us of ???

Something about the former wives of priests in the Coptic church, abandoning their families, for ISLAM ???
/sarc off


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #12 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 1:57pm
 
Quote:
What are you ppl going to believe ???      Cheesy

That;

1/ That two 10 & 13 year old Christian girls, freely choose to convert to ISLAM, and were subsequently given sanctuary by moslem men?


You must really know you have absolutely no chance of even participating in this discussion, that's why you completely ignored the actual case being discussed (ie. that of two middle aged women who chose to convert to Islam in Egypt) and instead attempted to present an alternative case (completely unrelated to this one) of two young teenage girls in Pakistan and then give us an ultimatum to choose from  Grin

You're a truly sad individual Yadda.
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #13 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 2:15pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 1:57pm:
Quote:
What are you ppl going to believe ???      Cheesy

That;

1/ That two 10 & 13 year old Christian girls, freely choose to convert to ISLAM, and were subsequently given sanctuary by moslem men?


You must really know you have absolutely no chance of even participating in this discussion, that's why you completely ignored the actual case being discussed (ie. that of two middle aged women who chose to convert to Islam in Egypt) and instead attempted to present an alternative case (completely unrelated to this one) of two young teenage girls in Pakistan and then give us an ultimatum to choose from  Grin

You're a truly sad individual Yadda.




What i am saying Abu, to everyone who frequents this forum, is that any account given by a moslem, or from a moslem perspective, FROM EXPERIENCE, such accounts are most likely not credible.

And if a moslem, for example, assured me that that bright thing in the sky was the sun, I WOULD SEEK A SECOND OPINION.

That, is the measure of the veracity i give to any account, which is related to me, by a moslem, any moslem.



Dictionary;
veracity = = conformity to facts; accuracy. Ø habitual truthfulness.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Re: Christmas in Gaza
Reply #14 - Jan 13th, 2011 at 10:04pm
 
Quote:
So you don't "support our troops"? You don't support the West's incursion into Afghanistan?


I supported Afghanistan, but not Iraq.

Quote:
I can't quite decipher what this is supposed to mean. Can you possibly unwrap all your anti-Islamic hints and innuendo from it and put it in plainer English.


You seem to think that churches getting bombed is a consequence the coptic church should have expected. If it wasn't Muslims doing the bombing, it would seem kind of absurd.

Quote:
Not quite sure what four churches you mean (got a link?)


I thought this had already been posted here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/01/australia-jihadist-threats-against-four-coptic-churches-in-sydney.html
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