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Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling. (Read 13976 times)
freediver
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #30 - Dec 23rd, 2010 at 10:42pm
 
Quote:
The Court orders that the respondent be restrained from killing


So, no jail term, no fine, not even a slap on the wrist. There is nothing at all imposed on the Japs, because they have not broken the law, because they are not subject to our law.

Quote:
The EPBC Act applies to all persons and all vessels within territorial Australia and the EEZ
including persons who are not Australian citizens and vessels that are not registered
Australian vessels.13
· Australia’s claimed EEZ extends to the waters within 200 nautical miles of the Australian
Antarctic Territory14;


We could claim the moon as our territory, just like that Spanish woman. It wouldn't make it reality. You laugh at that Spanish woman. The Japs laugh at us. The act can only be applied to our actual EEZ, not the imaginary, or 'claimed' one, which is why the court could not impose a penalty on the Japs, and why no Australian authority can carry out the court order to restrain them, unless they enter our real EEZ and start shooting whales there.

I have no idea what this court was playing at, making a statement just sufficiently complicated so that all the loonies thought the Japs were actual criminals. It has made us a laughing stock. Maybe it was some kind of experiment to test the limits of mass self delusion.

You need to read what it actually says, not what you want it to say. It is all there, in black and white, right before your eyes.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #31 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 5:20am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2010 at 10:42pm:
Quote:
The Court orders that the respondent be restrained from killing


So, no jail term, no fine, not even a slap on the wrist. There is nothing at all imposed on the Japs, because they have not broken the law, because they are not subject to our law.

Quote:
The EPBC Act applies to all persons and all vessels within territorial Australia and the EEZ
including persons who are not Australian citizens and vessels that are not registered
Australian vessels.13
· Australia’s claimed EEZ extends to the waters within 200 nautical miles of the Australian
Antarctic Territory14;


We could claim the moon as our territory, just like that Spanish woman. It wouldn't make it reality. You laugh at that Spanish woman. The Japs laugh at us. The act can only be applied to our actual EEZ, not the imaginary, or 'claimed' one, which is why the court could not impose a penalty on the Japs, and why no Australian authority can carry out the court order to restrain them, unless they enter our real EEZ and start shooting whales there.

I have no idea what this court was playing at, making a statement just sufficiently complicated so that all the loonies thought the Japs were actual criminals. It has made us a laughing stock. Maybe it was some kind of experiment to test the limits of mass self delusion.

You need to read what it actually says, not what you want it to say. It is all there, in black and white, right before your eyes.


Why is it an 'imaginary' claim??
The Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is recognised by the IWC, of which Japan is a member...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #32 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 6:39am
 
It is not recognised under international law. Seeing as it is in international waters, that is what matters. Our actions are no less absurd than the Spanish woman claiming ownership of the sun and trying to charge people for it.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #33 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 6:42am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 24th, 2010 at 6:39am:
It is not recognised under international law. Seeing as it is in international waters, that is what matters. Our actions are no less absurd than the Spanish woman claiming ownership of the sun and trying to charge people for it.



So you think that Treaties and Agreements signed by a country or countries and ratified by the United Nations and similar regulatory bodies aren't binding ON those countries???
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #34 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 6:45am
 
I don't think Japan ever agreed to cede those international waters to Australia.

They can leave the IWC at any time they please, and that is just what will happen if the IWC does not go back to its roots.
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #35 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 6:47am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 24th, 2010 at 6:45am:
I don't think Japan ever agreed to cede those international waters to Australia.

They can leave the IWC at any time they please, and that is just what will happen if the IWC does not go back to its roots.


Japan is a signatory to the Antarctic Treaty, and it is the Antarctic Treaty that gives Australia a claim to the Antarctic Territorial Waters and the EEZ...


And the IWC was set up to manage and control the whale populations....so it's current behaviour is it's 'roots'...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #36 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 6:59am
 
The IWC is not 'managing and controlling' the whale populations. If it were, it would have initiated a return to commercial whaling a long time ago, rather than forcing Japan and other whaling nations to exploit the various loopholes.

Instead, the IWC has been dominated by the animal libbers and people who consider it immoral to harvest whales, regardless of the sustainability of the harvest. Imposing those hypocritical moral standards on countries like Japan has nothing to do with what the IWC was originally about. The IWC is a symbol for what can go wrong with environmentalism - when animal libbers take over and somehow manage to trick the public into thinking the two agendas are identical.
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #37 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 7:05am
 
But even you must admit that not ALL of the whale species have returned to 'huntable' levels, have they??
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #38 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:33pm
 
Quote:
The act can only be applied to our actual EEZ, not the imaginary, or 'claimed' one


So now you are saying that the Australian Antarctic Territory is not real.

I am not so sure that they even respect the Austrailain mainland EEZ.
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #39 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:40pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2010 at 10:42pm:
Quote:
The Court orders that the respondent be restrained from killing


So, no jail term, no fine, not even a slap on the wrist. There is nothing at all imposed on the Japs, because they have not broken the law, because they are not subject to our law.


Yes it is a funny order - not sure who is authorised - the complainant, sea sheppherd, Is the Australian navy expected to enforce this order?

Not sure but to Australians this poaching has been ruled to be illegal irrespective of the fact that they are foreigners and do not respect the decision.

THe same as Australia has a long standing claim to the Aust Antarctic territory and its EEZ. (1933).

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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #40 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:42pm
 
Yet you NEVER criticise the violent, provocative behavior of Sea Shepherd on the high seas - which direcly contravenes international law??
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #41 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:42pm
 
Quote:
rather than forcing Japan and other whaling nations to exploit the various loopholes.


I think there is a difference between exploiting a loop hole and just being dishonest.

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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #42 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:53pm
 
Quote:
Japan is a signatory to the Antarctic Treaty, and it is the Antarctic Treaty that gives Australia a claim to the Antarctic Territorial Waters and the EEZ...


I wish that were the case Gizmo but actually the treaty sits on top of the claim - and has a different definition as to the boundaries.

This is where Japan choose to cherry pick the boundary, the Treaty is about the Antarctic land mass and ice shelf and does not cover the surrounding seas past a defined parallel
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #43 - Dec 25th, 2010 at 6:46pm
 
Quote:
But even you must admit that not ALL of the whale species have returned to 'huntable' levels, have they??


Sure, just like fish, kangaroos, or whatever. It is a pretty trivial point.

Quote:
So now you are saying that the Australian Antarctic Territory is not real.


Our marine park in international waters is not recognised under international law and cannot be enforced.

Quote:
I am not so sure that they even respect the Austrailain mainland EEZ.


Is this your racist prejudice speaking, or can you back it up?

Quote:
Yes it is a funny order - not sure who is authorised - the complainant, sea sheppherd, Is the Australian navy expected to enforce this order?


No one is exected to enforce it. It is a meaningless declaration.

Quote:
Not sure but to Australians this poaching has been ruled to be illegal


And if they did it in our actual EEZ they could be charged. Otherwise you might as well try to charge the Americans rent for their flag on the moon.

Quote:
irrespective of the fact that they are foreigners and do not respect the decision.


International law has no respect for the decision, that is what matters.

Quote:
I think there is a difference between exploiting a loop hole and just being dishonest.


The Japanese are quite open about the use of the loophole. They are quite open about leaving the IWC if it ceases to be a vehicle for rational management of the whale harvest and gets over-run by hippies. It is a credit to them and their desire for an effective international body to manage the harvest that they have stuck with it for so long despite our childish posturing.
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Re: Greens Meet With Japanese Over Whaling.
Reply #44 - Dec 26th, 2010 at 11:59am
 
This trailer doesn't show you the actual cruelty inflicted upon the "Children of a Lesser God" - the Animal Kingdom, but I suggest you watch the whole movie of EARTHLINGS.
I for one was quite upset by what I saw and I've seen my fair bit of 'Death' first hand.


Such things as so-called Kosher not actually being practiced as Kosher, etc - just shows the hypocrisy and lies fermented by industries that exploit the death of Animals.

We all have to eat ...but its the blatant way we go about it.
Should I pull out a little piglet and cut its throat for a slow death in front of the kiddies upon a birthday party sacrifice? Come on, of course not. So what if the meat tastes a bit better at that age of the pig. why the pig couldn't have lived a full life is beyond me.

Now I work in a Hatchery and I see thousands of unwanted 'Chicks' just hatched, slowly gassed (like Jews) to death and dumped (by me) in a big slush bin. Besides knowing that these chicks have only spent 3 days alive, its a shame that such 'bio' waste is just buried in Tips, rather than used as fertilizer or burley food for the oceans, especially out deep in open ocean where there is stuff all food and nutrients.
At least we don't "macerate" the chicks live anymore.

I think of that Conservationists have to clean up after Chefs like the Medicals have to clean up after Military Wars (for Politics).
Why we have to put up with Chefs endorsing killing animals before their age is due because of 'taste' is beyond me.
Poor animals.
The biggest Chinese Restaurant in the world serves its dishes LIVE.
Nothing more disgusting than seeing some poor fish still wiggling and being cooked alive. Just pathetic to see humanity behave so.

Put everything it 'human' perspective and suddenly everyone has a whine and a whinge. Such things as Genocide and Holocaust. We live in a world where the Human Rights of Criminals is a priority of the Human Rights of innocent people who suffer from such.

The world is bugger-KED.

>>>>>>>>>>For starters - stop calling the Nipponese the Anglo "Japanese" ...I'm sure australians wouldn't want to be called "Nancys". Roll Eyes no wonder they don't listen.


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SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.
 
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