Australian Politics Forum - do we really own oz?

Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: do we really own oz? Reply #45 - Dec 26^th, 2010 at 4:25pm Are you sure they aren't the same as this? http://cas.awm.gov.au/screen_img/RELC01152
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gizmo_2655

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Re: do we really own oz?
Reply #46 - Dec 26^th, 2010 at 4:37pm

Life_goes_on wrote on Dec 26^th, 2010 at 4:19pm:

If you have such a note then I suggest you try posting it on a Notaphily or perhaps even a Militaria forum to find out what the story is with it.

Perhaps they did print some in anticipation of an invasion or perhaps they were printed for propaganda purposes. But the fact remains that there were never any firm plans for an invasion of Australia.

Quote:

In early March 1942, the Japanese had debated what to do now that Japan had so easily gained her objectives. The Navy wanted to invade Australia and deny the country as a base to either America or Britain. The Army felt it did not have the strength to invade and fully occupy so vast a continent.

The Army won this argument. It was decided that from their new base at Rabaul, the Japanese would try to cut Australia off from America. This could be done by capturing various island groups in the Pacific – Fiji, the New Hebrides, Samoa and the Solomons. From these places, Japanese planes would make it impossible for American ships to get to Australia. In early May 1942, the Japanese struck

http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/ww2/bfa/overview.html

So why did they put so many soldiers on the ground in New Guinea???
They could have 'isolated' Australia with Naval and Air power....

Sorry, I know the current idea is to not annoy Japan (since it's a major trading partner) and that this is the reason that Victory over Japan (VJ Day) was changed to Victory in the Pacific (VP Day) but the fact remains that Japan DID intend to invade Australia....when they actually got to New Guinea, their dispatches indicated that they thought they'd REACHED Australia....

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gizmo_2655

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Re: do we really own oz?
Reply #47 - Dec 26^th, 2010 at 4:41pm

Life_goes_on wrote on Dec 26^th, 2010 at 4:25pm:

Are you sure they aren't the same as this?

http://cas.awm.gov.au/screen_img/RELC01152

Entirely possible....when/if I find them I'll let you know...I haven't look at them in a few years...

I'm fairly sure I have them...(but it's possible my brother grabbed them..)
Give me a week or so.....I moved recently to a smaller house, so I haven't unpack everything yet..LOTS of boxes..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Life_goes_on

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Re: do we really own oz?
Reply #48 - Dec 26^th, 2010 at 4:49pm

Quote:

Sorry, I know the current idea is to not annoy Japan (since it's a major trading partner) and that this is the reason that Victory over Japan (VJ Day) was changed to Victory in the Pacific (VP Day) but the fact remains that Japan DID intend to invade Australia....when they actually got to New Guinea, their dispatches indicated that they thought they'd REACHED Australia....

"Annoying Japan" has nothing to do it. A couple of decades ago historians started going through the Japanese archives and discovered that there were no firm plans to invade Australia. There was no political agenda behind it like you are trying to infer. For quite a while the Australian govt found the concept of no invasion plans just as unpalatable as what you seem to do.

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: do we really own oz? Reply #49 - Dec 26^th, 2010 at 4:57pm And is it all that 'unusual' for a defeated government/nation to 'sanitise' their files?? A lot of Germany files about the 'Final Solution' were destroyed in the last days of WW2, as were Italian and other Axis files.... There's very few records of what happened in camps like Changi existing in Japan either..
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Life_goes_on

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Re: do we really own oz?
Reply #50 - Dec 26^th, 2010 at 5:10pm

Quote:

And is it all that 'unusual' for a defeated government/nation to 'sanitise' their files??

You can pretty easily tell a lack of continuity with archives - plus there's references from other files, meetings, memos etc.
I believe there was an extensive paper trail in regards to discussions about the invasion of Australia. Then there's de-brief of POWs, which after WW2 was extremely extensive.

Although I fail to see why they would try to cover up any invasion plans.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: do we really own oz?
Reply #51 - Dec 27^th, 2010 at 9:27am

Quote:

Post-war research has found that the Japanese leadership never intended to conduct an invasion. The Japanese did, however, intend to isolate Australia by occupying New Guinea, New Caledonia and Fiji. As a result, while it is not correct to state that the Battle for Australia prevented an invasion of Australia, it did prevent Australia from being cut off from a major Allied power, the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Australia

It was just not feasible to invade Australia. We are a large mostly desert country with a small low density population in an isolated region of the world. The only reason the Japanese took an interest in us was our involvement with the Americans. As usual it was our willingness to fight other peoples wars which got us into trouble

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aussiefree2ride

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Re: do we really own oz?
Reply #52 - Dec 27^th, 2010 at 9:36am

Life_goes_on wrote on Dec 26^th, 2010 at 3:49pm:

Quote:

You might want to think again Oh_Yeah...The reason for the Japanese push to take Port Moresby was to secure a port close to Australia for a launching point of the Invasion of Australia, and the Japanese Fleet destroyed in the Battle of the Coral Sea was on it's way to support that proposed landing and to engage Allied troops and to try to force a landing somewhere around Brisbane..

The Japanese had no firm plans to invade Australia during WW2. Their plan was to isolate Australia and have us capitulate when they won the war.

Sure, they thought about it, but they never seriously made plans for an invasion.

Arrr well that`s alright then. Grin

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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: do we really own oz?
Reply #53 - Dec 27^th, 2010 at 10:25am

So true. Although there was substantial 'flak' from the Nipponese around the entire continent of Australia - Darwin being the worst.
The Nipponese saw no real advantage of invading Australia as a whole.
Its pure beat-up of fear & warmongering by military orientated Australians who rely heavily upon USA/UK alliance.
Its like a myth busted just like how we were told Wentworth, Lawson and Blaxland "Pathfinded the way across the Blue Mountains like the great Australian Pioneers that they were." What a croc! They just asked the Dharruk tribe "How?" and got "Just follow that track there Gubba".
Roll Eyes

- talk about an undersized fish caught and the records rigged to tell a very big 'fishy' tale indeed.

Ask any Nipponese who's father fought in WW2 and they would laugh at the idea of 'Invading Australia'. They saw Australia as just another Anglo-Saxon American 'outpost' Island ...much like Guam was for Nippon. But besides being far too large to mount a full-on invasion, it served no direct strategic value for direct assault upon the USA - so they just hampered any military avenues instead.

Can you imagine the Nipponese having invaded Australia and then finding it full of dirty filthy Ferals demanding that they "Save the Trees"
Grin

. Not only that, the Yobbos would probably have the entire Nipponese Army drunk on cheap beer constantly while turning bland snags on a BBQ. Grin

If Australia stayed Neutral the Nipponese had no intention at all to invade or molest.

General Macarthur was a lunatic madman - he actually helped orchestrate the Korean War under the belief of Yin/Yang meaning that the entire Northern Hemisphere should be "all white" via a Cold War connestion with the Soviets. "To rid Asia of the Mongol scurge" was his own words. Which meant to push the Yellows outta Asia and down into Australia/Oceania ....and thats where the constant propaganda of Nips invading Australia came from.
...So much for USA "allies" Roll Eyes

...and still such a belief is practiced today. What an absolute joke!

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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: do we really own oz?
Reply #54 - Dec 27^th, 2010 at 10:41am

A very large Russian Waship (a real big one) once threatened New Zealand with "invasion" and it could at that time if it wanted ...but there was no real advantage for it to do so. Although New Zealand later mounted land-based Guns for protection, nothing really eventuated.
In the end, New Zealand got revenge in their passive way ...check out the Wreck of the Lermontov. I've dived it and its fantastic. Three cheers for Russia !!! Grin

Aust.

Take into account the title of "Digger" which was well expressed in the Book "The Seed and the Sower" by Sir Laurens Van Der Post.
How Australia Soldiers really kicked into action 'outta fear' upon the coming invasion of Singapore, all to no avail though. But what it showed was Australia's true military identity - DEFENSIVE.
That means Australia's true military identity is not going off on Mercenary missions like some Foreign Legion for other Nations like the purely 'racist' connection with fellow Anglo-Saxons of the UK and USA in the face of the United Nations.
If the UN ordered Australia into action then so be it, but it is usually in conjunction with other nations not actually 'race' related.

Australia is at its weakest when 'invading', just like Gallipoli - hence the tragedy of it all. Ask any Vietnamese who fought at Nui Dat, etc and they will tell you how they always skirted around any Military 'defensive' position held by Aust/NZ to take on a larger USA force somewhere else. Aust/NZ forces on the move were a bit easier to attack.

I think the Military propaganda machine is still in effect with some recent movie about the invasion of New Zealand "....something about tomorrow?" - they use subtle uniforms to describe "Chinese". Roll Eyes

I don't see any threat by the Chinese when they will implode like a SuperNova under the weight of their own population.

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