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Global Economic Downturn to Continue? (Read 97752 times)
Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #645 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 3:31pm
 
A light-hearted take on the state of the EU

World Collapse Explained in 3 Minutes


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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Bias_2012
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #646 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 5:55pm
 
Nope not the end of the world, just the beginning of world govt and a worldwide Tobin Tax

As well as your tax money poured into the IMF and national future funds for bailouts, since freedom and production will take a nose dive

Put that in your financial portfolio pipe qikvtec
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Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #647 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 6:10pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 3rd, 2011 at 5:55pm:
Nope not the end of the world, just the beginning of world govt and a worldwide Tobin Tax

As well as your tax money poured into the IMF and national future funds for bailouts, since freedom and production will take a nose dive

Put that in your financial portfolio pipe qikvtec


I'll take my chances with the greatest companies on earth if it's all the same to you.
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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #648 - Nov 6th, 2011 at 10:45pm
 
Only 80K New Jobs, But Unemployment Rate Drops To 9.0%


Despite a slightly lower-than-expected 80K new jobs the unemployment rate declined from 9.1% to 9.0%.

The unemployment peak for the current cycle was 10.2% in October 2009. The chart here shows the pattern of unemployment, recessions and both the nominal and real (inflation-adjusted) price of the S&P Composite since 1948.

Unemployment is usually a lagging indicator that moves inversely with equity prices (top chart). Note the increasing peaks in unemployment in 1971, 1975 and 1982. The inverse pattern becomes clearer when viewed against real (inflation-adjusted) S&P Composite, with its successively lower bear market bottoms. The mirror relationship seems to be repeating itself with the current and previous bear markets.
...

The second chart shows the unemployment rate for the civilian population unemployed 27 weeks and over. The October number is 3.8% - down from last month's 4.1%. This measure gives an alternative perspective on the relative severity of economic conditions. As we readily see, this metric remains significantly higher than the peak in 1983, which came six months after the broader measure topped out at 10.8%.
...

The next chart is an overlay of the unemployment rate and the employment-population ratio. This is the ratio of the number of employed people to the total civilian population age 16 and over.
...

The July 2011 ratio was a modern low of 58.1% - a level not seen since the 58.1% ratio of March 1953

The employment-population ratio will be interesting to watch going forward. The first wave of Boomers will be a downward force on this ratio. The oldest of them were eligible for early retirement when the Great Recession began, and the Boomer transition to retirement will accelerate over the next several years.

What is the average length of unemployment? As the next chart illustrates, we are perhaps seeing a paradigm shift - the result of global outsourcing and efficiencies of technology. The post-recession duration of unemployment has continued to rise, although the October 39.4 is off last month's all-time high of 40.5. It had approached a level nearly double the peak in 1983 following the 1981-82 recession.
...

The last chart is one of my favorites from Bill McBride at Calculated Risk. It shows the job losses from the peak employment month since World War II. Note the addition of the dotted-line alternative for the current cycle, which shows unemployment excluding the temporary census hiring
...

Link -
http://seekingalpha.com/article/305336-only-80k-new-jobs-but-unemployment-rate-d...
================================================
A few observations -
One thing that can be observed in a few of these charts, is that THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT, as I have mentioned to various people, from time to time.
That can be confirmed, by looking at -
1) The Real Unemployment, which would be at least 13%, if not for the context of the massive Baby Boomer retirements, which have been some 10,000 per day, since the beginning of this year, in the US.
2) The Unemployed, over 27 weeks, as a % of the Civilian workforce, which is now considerably higher than at any other time, since 1948.
3) The Employment to total Population ratio, is now hovering around a low of 58% and is set to go much lower in coming years, as Baby Boomers are set to exit the US workforce,  at an average of 10,000 per day, for some 2 decades.
Many, if not most, will be exiting in expectation of receiving long promised government pensions.
However, that may not happen, given that current & past governments have usurped much of what had been allocated to pay these Pensions and used it to pay for past Deficits!
4) The average Unemployment duration is now much longer and is in fact almost double previous Recessions.

Clearly, there is no Recovery under way, given these facts!

But with the Employment to total Population ratio, set to continue falling, due to Boomer retirements and Peak Oil impacting events, this must increase the strain on government deficits and increase the likelihood of a continuing decline in the Publics disposal income, all of which will contribute to a decline in Demand for many products and thus guarantee that there will be no Recovery in the USA.

With a similar criteria applying in Europe and both the US & Europe up to their eyeballs in Debt, neither can fund the usual Keynesian  solutions and the Austrian solution will only place greater strains, by ensuring Demand dives even lower.

The return of the financial tsunami, in the US & Europe, will also flow thru to all other Global Economies, as product Demand diminishes!

Is THIS TIME DIFFERENT?
YES, you bet it is!
OR, should I say, THEY bet and it is!      
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #649 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 5:58am
 
From those graphs we can definitely understand why people are protesting in the USA. This won't get better any time soon. It's a cancer and it has spread from America through the UK and parts of Europe. As we have just evidenced with the G20 stooge -fest, TPTB have no idea what to do., meet again in three months they said, hoping it will go away by then.

Even stupid people are starting to notice that something is awfully wrong (not longweekend though)

I can hardly believe how fast the financial crisis has accelerated this year, from January when we were saying things are bad and now in November it's at the critical stage.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #650 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 7:24am
 
‘Politicians can’t control Euro crisis’

As Greece awaits the formation of a new "unity" government, Arjo Klamer, chair of economics at Erasmus University in Rotterdam, told RT that even if the new coalition is formed, it is unlikely to make any difference.

“The big problem the Greek government has is to get its population behinds its plan. And it doesn’t seem that the people in Greece are willing to put up with all the measures that are being taken,” he explained.

The Greek PM must resign – that is the demand of the country’s opposition, if the political deadlock is to come to an end. The head of Greece's main opposition party said George Papandreou was "dangerous" and has called for early elections.

According to senior government officials, Papandreou could announce his resignation later on Sunday, hoping it will pave the way for the formation of a coalition government. Meanwhile Athens is fast running out of time to implement a crucial EU bailout plan intended to save the country from bankruptcy.

If George Papandreu resigns in the next few hours, this political solution will not do much good for the situation in Europe as a whole, believes Klamer.

“The Greek are rather disturbed, even though they say they want to hold on to the euro, they do not want to put up with the measures being imposed on them. The new government can create some sort of solution for some time, but the resistance is building up and then I see that the same thing is happening in Italy where they also have to take measures that the Italians are not willing to live with,” he stated. “I don’t think the politicians have the measures and instruments to control this crisis,” he added.

In order to get the bailout money Greek politicians have to push on with these measures which, Klamer maintains, are drastic.

“We call it a cold turkey approach. It means reducing salaries and government spending, causing a lot of hardship among the Greeks. That’s the price they have to pay for the euro. And whether the Greeks want to go along with it is doubtful. If it does not work, and all politicians understand that, then there will be serious consequences not just for the Greeks, but also for the banks which may go bankrupt if they Greeks themselves go bankrupt,” he pointed out.

Papandreu shocked EU leaders by announcing a referendum, resulting in the threat of being kicked out of the EU, but France and Germany still seem set on saving Greece. In fact, it is not Greece they want to save, but their own banks, explains Klamer.

“Greece is too small to care about, but it is a threat for the European economies because German and French banks are heavily involved in Greek debt, so they are really concerned and in this case they were so strict about it because they saw that the referendum would push the whole thing forward,” he concluded.

http://rt.com/news/greece-euro-crisis-coalition-665/

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #651 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 10:07am
 
Arrivederci, Roma


Will popular democracy bring down the New World Order?

A fair question. For Western peoples are growing increasingly reluctant to accept the sacrifices that the elites are imposing upon them to preserve that New World Order.

Political support for TARP, to rescue the financial system after the Lehman Brothers collapse, is being held against any Republican candidate who backed it. Germans and Northern Europeans are balking at any more bailouts of Club Med deadbeats.

Eighty-one members of David Cameron's party voted against him to demand a referendum on whether Britain should leave the European Union altogether, the worst Tory revolt ever against the EU.


Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou imperiled the grand bargain to save the eurozone by announcing a popular vote on whether to accept the austerity imposed on Greece, or default, and let the bank dominoes begin to fall. The threat faded only when Papandreou cancelled the referendum.

But the real peril is Italy, No. 3 economy in the eurozone, with a national debt at 120 percent of gross domestic product.

After the plan to save the eurozone was announced, interest rates on new Italian debt surged above 6 percent, with 6.5 regarded as unsustainable.

When Papandreou announced his referendum, the cost of Italian debt surged again. Should buyers of Italy's debt go on strike, fearing a Rome default or write-down, that is the end of the eurozone and potentially the end of the EU.

But an even larger question hangs over Rome.

Will Italy survive as one nation and one people?

For the austerity demanded of Italy to deal with its debt crisis is adding kindling to secessionist fires in the north, where the Lega Nord of Umberto Bossi, third largest party in Italy, seeks to lead Lombardy, Piedmont and Veneto, with the cities of Turin, Milan and Venice, out of Italy into a new nation - Padania.


According to Italy's National Office of Statistics, in 2009 the fertility rate of Italian women was 1.41 children per woman. This is only two-thirds of what is needed simply to replace Italy's existing population.

Italy's fertility rate has been below replacement levels for 35 years. By mid-century, Italy will be a nation with a birth rate that will have been below, at times far below, zero population growth for 75 years.

Italy's birth rate in 1950 was almost twice its death rate. But the death rate equaled the birth rate in 1985, exceeds it today and will be approaching twice the birth rate by 2050.

Italy is not only aging, with the median age of its population going from 43 today to 50 at midcentury, Italy is dying. If this does not change, what the world knows as Italy will not exist at the end of this century.

Like other European nations, Italy faces an existential crisis.

Her national debt is twice what the EU says is tolerable. She must undergo years of painful austerity to pay back what she has borrowed and spent. Yet a shrinking population of working age young and an expanding pool of seniors and aged to care for will make that increasingly difficult, and default on her debts increasing attractive, as it is today to the Greeks.

If your debts are larger than your economy, your death rate exceeds your birth rate and every new generation will be one-third smaller than the previous one, what kind of future does your country have?

The kind of future Italy faces.


Link -
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/11.11/roma.html
==============================================
I may not agree with everything the author says, but the article does highlight quite starkly, some of the issues that I have already  raised!
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #652 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 8:41am
 
Stocks Recover on European Crisis Reassurances


NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Stocks recovered late in Tuesday's session after an influential European Central Bank member provided reassurances that the eurozone crisis will eventually be brought under control.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 84 points, or 0.7%, to close at 12,067. The S&P 500 added 8 points, or 0.6%, to settle at 1261, while the Nasdaq increased 9 points, or 0.3%, to finish at 2695 amid light volumes.

Stocks rallied after Bloomberg reported that ECB governing council member Jürgen Stark told an audience at a conference in Lucerne, Switzerland that the eurozone crisis will be brought under control within two years.


For much of the day, stocks were lower on worries that political missteps in Europe's third-largest economy could drive Italy further into debt purgatory. The Dow was down more than 100 points at its lowest point of the session.

A vote on budget reforms in Italy Tuesday will effectively test the leadership of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who faces pressure to resign from office. The yield on 10-year Italian government debt has jumped since Friday, hitting a 14-year high of 6.67% on Monday and signaling heightened nervousness that political turmoil will prevent Italy from dealing with its debt problems.

"The question is whether Italy will be the next domino to fall," said Paul Nolte, director of investments with Dearborn Partners. "Equity markets are narrowing in on Italy's ability to work out a deal."

Meanwhile, the situation in Greece looked more stable after the country came to an agreement to accept an aid package from its European neighbors that will allow Greece to avoid default in the near term. News that Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou will resign, making way for an interim administration led by a former European Central Bank vice president, gave the markets some clarity about the country's future.

Earlier, London's FTSE lost 0.3% and Germany's DAX fell 0.7%. Japan's Nikkei Average finished down 0.4%, and Hong Kong's Hang Seng lost 0.8%.

In other corporate news, Jefferies Group(JEF_) gained 1% after announcing that the bank has reduced its holdings of European sovereign debt by about half since last week. Shares of Jefferies have faced pressure in recent days over concerns that the bank is dangerously exposed to Europe's debt crisis.

Gold for December delivery gained further with the weakness in the equities market, up $35 to settle at $1791.10 an ounce. In other commodities, the December crude oil contract rose $1.19 to trade at $95.45 a barrel.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/zs=%5eDJI&t=1d&q=l&l=on&z=l&a=v&p=s&lang=en-AU&region=AU
=============================================
Itseems there may be a TIME WARP, we've gone straight past Christmas and
THIS IS APRIL 1ST?

It must be, all the conferences & EU leaders, couldn't come up with a solid plan to fix the EU problems, BUT an ECB council member says, "the eurozone crisis will be brought under control within two years" and the DOW goes UP by almost 200 points.

This clearly shows that share markets are either completely "irrational" OR the are being RIGGED!

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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #653 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 9:55am
 
I just don't get it. The market is so volatile with a serious move either up or down, not even on fact now, it just takes a rumour or a flippant comment from anyone really, just anyone. From an observers position it looks like  a ten year old kid is controlling the market.

It really is more like a bad joke than reality. Maybe on Wall Street every day is April Fools Day.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #654 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 10:04am
 


Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 8th, 2011 at 9:55am:
I just don't get it. The market is so volatile with a serious move either up or down, not even on fact now, it just takes a rumour or a flippant comment from anyone really, just anyone. From an observers position it looks like  a ten year old kid is controlling the market.

It really is more like a bad joke than reality. Maybe on Wall Street every day is April Fools Day.




Yup, it sure is a crazy world that we have allowed our forefathers to create for us!

Governments and whole nations beholden to the reckless gambling, exploiting and profiteering antics of the parasitic few who manipulate gravely-under-regulated global markets...

I shudder and cringe, every time I hear someone on the news carping on about the importance of 'calming markets' and 'returning to solid growth'...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #655 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 10:29am
 
Chinese commie tell Europeans that socialism is at the root of their problems.
"If you look at the troubles which happened in European countries, this is purely because of the accumulated troubles of the worn out welfare society. I think the labour laws are outdated. The labour laws induce sloth, indolence, rather than hardworking. The incentive system, is totally out of whack.

"Why should, for instance, within [the] eurozone some member's people have to work to 65, even longer, whereas in some other countries they are happily retiring at 55, languishing on the beach? This is unfair. The welfare system is good for any society to reduce the gap, to help those who happen to have disadvantages, to enjoy a good life, but a welfare society should not induce people not to work hard."

Jin Liqun, the supervising chairman of China's sovereign wealth fund


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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #656 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 11:00am
 
Soren wrote on Nov 8th, 2011 at 10:29am:
Chinese commie tell Europeans that socialism is at the root of their problems.
"If you look at the troubles which happened in European countries, this is purely because of the accumulated troubles of the worn out welfare society. I think the labour laws are outdated. The labour laws induce sloth, indolence, rather than hardworking. The incentive system, is totally out of whack.

"Why should, for instance, within [the] eurozone some member's people have to work to 65, even longer, whereas in some other countries they are happily retiring at 55, languishing on the beach? This is unfair. The welfare system is good for any society to reduce the gap, to help those who happen to have disadvantages, to enjoy a good life, but a welfare society should not induce people not to work hard."

Jin Liqun, the supervising chairman of China's sovereign wealth fund




Unyet, the home of Capitalism (USA), is as bad, in fact worse than Europe & far worse than the likes of China, Norway & some OPEC countries.

Which begs a question!
Is it really just about Politicial philosophies OR are there other factors in play?
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #657 - Nov 9th, 2011 at 9:41am
 
Stocks Surge; Berlusconi Expected to Resign


NEW YORK (TheStreet) - Stocks closed near session highs Tuesday as investors saw Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's plans to reportedly resign as a positive for Italy's future.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 102 points, 0.8%, to finish at 12,170. The blue-chip index was down a little more than 60 points at its worst levels of the day, swinging into positive territory in afternoon action.

Again, a fresh batch of headlines from Europe drove the market action. The S&P 500 closed up 15 points, or 1.2%, at 1276, and the Nasdaq rose 32 points, or 1.2%, to settle at 2727.

Investors are taking Berlusconi's promise to resign as a sign that Italy may get back on track in resolving its debt problems. Italy will probably vote next week on austerity measures in a new budget bill. If Berlusconi does step down, investors will be looking for clarity on new leadership for Italy.

Berlusconi has faced increasing pressure to step down in the past few days. Stocks weakned earlier in the day on worries he might try to stick things out after securing a small victory on one legislative front but losing on another. The leader's center-right ruling coalition garnered 308 votes to pass a budget measure, but lacked the remaining eight votes required for a clear majority in the lower house.

Political maneuvering in Italy has driven the country's bond yields to record highs since the country joined the euro. "If things are getting better, you would think that the Italians yields would be coming down and investors would be comfortable buying," said Channing Smith, managing director at Capital Advisors. "That's one fly in the ointment that not heading out [any time soon]."

Meanwhile, patience for Greek leaders to prevent a bankruptcy in their country was growing thin. On Tuesday, the country had not yet decided on a new interim prime minister. Instead, talks between Greece's two largest political parties dragged on Tuesday without word on when they would reach a consensus. Investors are hoping that a unity government will help Greece secure a new €130 billion ($179 billion) European rescue package to ward off a default in the near term.

"Markets appear to have entered a period of indecision, as it appears seemingly unending data points from Europe are balanced with some structural investment management trends," said James Dailey, portfolio manager at TEAM Asset Strategy Fund. Dailey also said many investment managers who may be trailing their benchmarks for 2011 fear missing out on a possible year-end upside in riskier assets.

"This creates a manic environment in which longs and shorts are very nervous and subject to whipsawing. Today's stock market is a microcosm of this indecision and whipsawing, as prices churn within a range on relatively low volume. At some point, the churning is likely to end with either a breakout or breakdown, but until then the manic swings continue."

Link -
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/11303704/1/stock-market-story-nov-8.html?c...
==============================================
Given the macro factors in play, the odds are very much against a breakout, but a breakdown is quite on the cards!
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #658 - Nov 10th, 2011 at 8:35am
 
11,780.94  
Down 389.24 (3.20%)

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/zs=%5eDJI&t=1d&q=l&l=on&z=l&a=v&p=s&lang=en-AU&region=AU

Nerves, again, back in markets, as Italy continues to slide.
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #659 - Nov 10th, 2011 at 8:42am
 
Berlusconi Rushes to Pass Debt Measures as Yields Soar


Italy’s government presented lawmakers with the budget measures pledged to European Union allies, paving the way for parliamentary votes this week that will lead to Prime MinisterSilvio Berlusconi’s resignation.

Italy’s bond yields surged past the 7 percent threshold that prompted Greece, Portugal and Ireland to seek bailouts after Berlusconi’s majority unraveled yesterday and LCH Clearnet SA said it would demand additional collateral on Italian debt. Months of bickering within Berlusconi’s Cabinet over the budget measures ended up fueling the collapse of the government and the selloff of the country’s debt.

“Italy is now in a dance of death,” Fredrik Erixon, head of the European Centre for International Political Economy in Brussels, said in a telephone interview. “What we need is a strong reaction from other euro zone leaders to calm markets. But we don’t have it.”

Link -
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-09/italy-gives-lawmakers-budget-measures-t...
========================================
I would suggest higher rates are on the way for Italy, following the Greek example and with Italy we are now talking about an Economy of SIZE, so the dilemma becomes even greater.

They can not afford Italy to go the way of Greece, but neither can they afford to bail it out!
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