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Global Economic Downturn to Continue? (Read 98119 times)
perceptions_now
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #585 - Oct 4th, 2011 at 11:48pm
 
DOW opens down, AGAIN!


The DOW has again opened in negative territory and has ranging between 1.00-1.50% down, but it seems to be trending down, in early trading.

After the first 15 minutes of trading, it is now down some 178 points.

It seems, another torrid session awaits!
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #586 - Oct 5th, 2011 at 8:41am
 
U.S. Stocks Jump as S&P 500 Gains 4.1% in Final Hour


U.S. stocks rallied
, driving the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index up 4.1 percent in the final 50 minutes,
amid speculation European Union officials are examining how to recapitalize the region’s banks
. Treasuries fell and the euro rallied.


The S&P 500 surged 2.3 percent to 1,123.95 at 4 p.m. New York time, sparing the benchmark measure of U.S. equities its first bear market, or 20 percent retreat from a peak, since 2009. Yields on Treasury 10-year notes climbed 6 basis points to 1.82 percent. The euro appreciated 1.1 percent to $1.3322. Futures on Germany’s DAX Index pared their loss to 1 percent from 4.9 percent.

Equities rebounded after the S&P 500 fell below 1,090.89, the closing level required to give the index a 20 percent slump from the three-year high reached on April 29. Stocks rose after the Financial Times quoted Olli Rehn, European commissioner for economic affairs, as saying there is an “increasingly shared view” that the region needs a coordinated approach to halt the sovereign debt crisis. After U.S. markets closed, Belgian Prime Minister Yves Leterme said a “bad bank” to hold Dexia SA (DEXB)’s troubled assets will be set up.

“The European crisis has been the market driver,” Richard Sichel, who oversees $1.6 billion as chief investment officer at Philadelphia Trust Co., said in a phone interview. “If Europe comes out with something to kick the can down the road, it buys them more time. We learned in 2008 how important the financial system is and how a ripple effect can occur.”

U.S. stocks followed European shares lower earlier as some officials signaled bondholders may have to take bigger losses on Greek debt than previously negotiated.

The possible breakup of Belgian bank Dexia and Deutsche Bank AG (DBK)’s abandonment of its profit forecast added to signs that contagion from the debt crisis is spreading. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. cut its global growth forecasts and predicted recessions in Germany and France.

Link -
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-04/asia-stocks-oil-drop-on-europe-crisis-c...
=========================================
http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/zs=%5eDJI&t=1d&q=l&l=on&z=l&a=v&p=s&lang=en-AU&region=AU

Well, that was Fortuitous?

Just as the broader US S&P was about to close below 20% down from its April highs and enter into "official Bear Market" territory, out comes a rumour that Europes problems are about to have a magical fix and the DOW responds by rising some 360 points, in less than an hour, to provide some temporary breathing space!

This again reminds me of the adage, "buy on the rumour & sell on the fact" and the fact is that this is "market manipulation" by TPTB, to buy a little more time, in the hope that time will somehow solve all problems, which in this instance, it can't!

That said, at least the local (OZ) markets may get some respite today, with a rise, unless the can didn't get kicked far enough down the road, the facts surface too quickly and the DOW Futures dive again today?

We really are, now on the roller coaster ride of our lifetime!


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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #587 - Oct 5th, 2011 at 5:57pm
 
The Tax Summit will fix it all - don't panic


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Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #588 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 11:11am
 
Ploise explain! The stock market has gone sky-high. What has given the punters the confidence? I wonder if the global financial crisis has been fixed overnight. Maybe.....or maybe not.

Ben Bernanke should get Time Person of the Year again......maybe.
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #589 - Oct 8th, 2011 at 12:05pm
 
Shrinking workforce may dampen expansion for decades


WASHINGTON —
This is not your mother’s recovery.


Women and baby boomers entering the American workforce after 1950 helped to supercharge expansions in 1975 and 1983 by filling an increasing number of jobs and purchasing more goods and services. Now as the share of women with jobs falls and older Americans age into retirement, the shrinking — or, at best, slowly growing — workforce will weaken economic activity for the next two decades.

The demographic changes may be the biggest and least-appreciated reason why the two-year recovery has slowed, because the rate of growth for labor and capital is “the most important determinant” of economic expansion,
said James Paulsen, chief investment strategist for Wells Capital Management in Minneapolis.


More retirees mean slower household formation, reduced consumer spending and downward pressure on equity prices as retirement cuts people’s purchasing power, according to John Lonski, chief economist at Moody’s Capital Markets Group in New York, and Gus Faucher, director of macroeconomics at Moody’s Analytics Inc. in West Chester, Pa.

“A weaker labor force does dampen the pace of the rebound,” along with “our expectation for what an expansionary trend is,” said Dean Maki, chief U.S. economist at Barclays Capital Inc. in New York. “We should be lowering our sights on potential GDP compared to when our population was younger.”

Anemic gains in the number of new workers has effectively cut the long-term “speed limit for growth” to 2.25 percent, estimates Maki, a former senior economist at the Federal Reserve. That compares with the Fed’s estimated 2.5 percent to 2.8 percent rate for gross domestic product and average growth of 3.2 percent from 1980 to 2000.

Automakers General Motors, Ford and Toyota, motorcycle maker Harley-Davidson and natural- foods grocer Whole Foods Market may be hurt by the shift because most retirees will cut spending on big-ticket items and nonessentials, said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America’s Research Group in Charleston, S.C., a consulting company that studies consumer behavior.

“Older people tend to have lower incomes, their consumption tends to be lower and in that sense, consumer-spending growth would be weaker as well,” said Moody’s Faucher. “There will be fewer people in prime car-buying years,” and “recreational goods and services are a young-adult thing.”

The aging population also may hold down stock values for the next two decades as boomers sell shares to finance retirement, according to a Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco research paper released Aug. 22.

“The mentality has shifted to preserving wealth rather than growing wealth, with less-risky portfolio allocations,” said Emily Sanders, president of Sanders Financial Management Inc. in Norcross, Ga., whose largest group of clients is aged 55-65. A typical 65-year-old may have 50 percent of his portfolio in stocks, which would drop to 30 percent at age 80, she said.

Faucher forecasts changing demographics will lead to a period when nominal GDP growth — which includes the impact of inflation — slows to 3.3 percent compared with 5.5 percent before the 18-month recession. That means the rise in corporate profits and equity prices would slow to about 3.3 percent from 5.5 percent as well, he said.

An estimated 72 million people, or 19.3 percent of the population, will be 65 and older by 2030, compared with 40 million, or 13 percent, in 2010, the Census Bureau estimates.

“We are at the threshold of retirement mountain: a huge, huge change in the numbers of people who are reaching the age where they are leaving the labor force,” said Neal Soss, chief economist with Credit Suisse Holdings USA in New York.

While losses from declines in the value of 401k and similar accounts may force some to delay retirement, these delays will be temporary, he said.

“Maybe one of the solutions here is that they work a year or two longer,” he said. “Do we really think we are going to have a lot of 80-year-olds in the workforce? It sounds good until you start thinking about the practicalities of it.”

The baby boom, the population bulge born after World War II between 1946 and 1964, added 9.4 million people in the 16-24 age group during the 1960s and 7.3 million in the 1970s. The percentage of women in the workforce almost doubled to 60.3 percent in 2000 from 33.6 percent in 1953, according to the Labor Department.

Boomers started turning 65 this year, and every day for the next 18 years, about 10,000 more will hit the age that historically has been associated with retirement, according to the Pew Research Center in Washington. Women’s participation in the labor force may decline slightly during the next 40 years to about 57 percent because fewer will have jobs as they grow older, the Bureau of Labor Statistics projects.

While GDP has grown at an average annual pace of 2.4 percent in the eight quarters since the December 2007 recession ended, that compares with an average of 6.3 percent after the July 1981 slump and 4.7 percent following the November 1973 contraction, both of which lasted 16 months.
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« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2011 at 3:03pm by perceptions_now »  
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #590 - Oct 8th, 2011 at 12:08pm
 
Shrinking workforce may dampen expansion for decades (Cont)


Gary Burtless, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington, agrees that slower population growth affects the rate of economic output. Still, the recent decline in the workforce “is vastly greater than can be explained” by demographics and mainly reflects the inability of unemployed people to find work,
he said.

Some industries may benefit from the demographic shift, Faucher said.

“We’d expect to see strong growth in health-care spending, and I think we’ll need to see strong growth in investment spending as companies will need to invest in technology to get greater productivity,” he said.

About 70 percent of Americans aged 50 to 64 are very or moderately worried about having enough money in retirement, an April Gallup poll showed. People need about 70 percent to 80 percent of their pre-retirement income to live comfortably after they quit working, according to the Social Security Administration.

Their concerns may be exacerbated as the slow recovery and aging workforce has prompted the government to forecast that Medicare, the government’s health-insurance program for the elderly and disabled, and the Social Security trust for the disabled and retirees will run out of money sooner than earlier projections.

The trustees of the two programs reported in May that Medicare won’t have sufficient funds to pay full benefits starting in 2024, five years earlier than last year’s estimate, and Social Security’s cash to pay full benefits runs short in 2036, a year sooner than the 2010 projection.

Maya Hahn, an Atlanta real-estate agent, turned 65 last week and said she plans to retire next year on less than half the “six-figure income” she earned during the early 2000s. She considers herself “semiretired” now because of the housing bust in the past few years.

“The happiest day of my life was the day I got my Medicare,” she said. “It was a huge weight lifted off me” because of rising health-care and drug expenses in retirement.

“You have to think about what you spend on anything,” she said. “You don’t go out to movies. You don’t go out to dinner. You don’t go on vacation. There are no fun bucks.”


Link -
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110904/news/709049865/
==============================================
It is True, that this Economic slowdown & this recovery, are different to all such previous events!

It is also True, that the Demographic issues raised in this article are & will be a major influence over existing & future events!

It is also True, that Demographic issues have been the single, most influential Determinant that has shaped the Global Economy, for the last 80 years and which will continue to do so over the next century, together with Peak Energy & Climate Change!

These are the factors that are driving & will continue to drive Consumer Demand!

There is absolutely no way that Governments OR Central Banks can push up Consumer Demand, given these major factors!

All that has happened so far, is attempts to inflate Demand by various measures including many Financial sector bailouts. That has caused Economic Growth to be kept artificial higher (although still lower than usual/past averages), governments have vastly inflated their Debts and therefore the headline GDP Growth has been & is an illusion, it is not real and it can not be sustained against the major factors currently influencing the Global Economy!    

Any past, current &/or future attempts, by Governments or CB's to push on the peice of string commonly called Demand, will result in an abject failure!

The Truth is, there is NO QUICK FIX for what's happening!

It will certainly require higher Taxes, particularly from Business & the higher end Income earners!

It will also certainly require expenditure savings, partiularly in areas where efficiencies can be implemented & many Political Party Favourites will have to go!

But, in the long run, we will also have to accept that the old concepts of a growth Economy are dead and we must start down a new paths, both Economically & Politically!

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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #591 - Oct 8th, 2011 at 8:25pm
 
Belgium Joins The PIIGS


We need to add a new name to the ever increasing list of insolvent EU countries: the Kingdom of Belgium. Yesterday, it was reported that Belgium, in conjunction with the French government, would effectively nationalize and then break up the struggling mega bank Dexia (DXBGF.PK) and spin it off into the form of a good-bank/bad bank scenario (with taxpayers forced to pay the bill). This news is widely credited with sparking the 400-point move in the Dow in the last 45 minutes of trading.

The collapse of Dexia should not have taken anyone by surprise. In fact, the hopelessly irresponsible bank is no stranger to taxpayer funded bailouts. Back in 2008, during the depths of the US financial crisis, Dexia was injected with 6.4 billion EUR of capital by the French, Belgian, and Luxembourg governments. In addition, the bank was given up to 150 billion EUR in funding guarantees to assure reassure counterparties and to allow the bank to continue operations

One of the most troubling aspects of the Dexia saga is the incompetence of EU regulators and ratings agencies, which should spook any bank shareholder. Dexia notes proudly on its website that it passed last year's EU bank stress test, saying: “The conclusion of the stress tests is that Dexia does not require additional capital to withstand the CEBS two-year 'what-if' adverse scenario including the additional sovereign shock.” Most skeptics pointed out the flaws of the EU bank stress tests, mainly that they were too conservative and failed to prepare banks for an extreme case like a sovereign default.

It turns out that those critics were correct. While corruption and stupidity is to be expected among EU bureaucrats, one would think that investors could at least rely on ratings agencies for some factual information.

The major story of the Dexia bailout is that it now puts Belgium in the same position as EU bailout recipient Ireland, which was rendered bankrupt by the markets and frozen out of the credit markets in late 2010. Belgium at this time is unable to afford a major bank bailout for two major reasons: deteriorating economic finances and lack of political consensus. In 2010 Belgium GDP came in at $467 billion dollars, and debt to GDP rose to 97.2%.

As of June 30, 2010 foreign investors owned a whopping 88.7% of Belgium’s Treasury certificates and 55% of its Linear Bonds.

How investors will react to an over-leveraged country bailing out a bankrupt bank with total assets (517 billion EUR) that exceed the country’s GDP is not a pleasant thought.


Link -
http://seekingalpha.com/article/297975-belgium-joins-the-piigs?ifp=0&source=emai...
===========================================
A few observations -
1) Political corruption & incompetence is not restricted to Belgium Politicians.
2) Ratings agencies should be very closely examined, for their roles, in this entire Gloabl Economic Event.
3) Now that Belgium have joined the Piigs, how will things change if Germany fall into the trap?
Will we then have -
Big Pigs?

B
elgium
I
reland
G
reece

P
ortugal
I
taly
G
ermany
S
pain  


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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #592 - Oct 8th, 2011 at 10:51pm
 
Keynes and Hayek, the Great Debate

(Part 1)


Oct. 6 (Bloomberg) -- In the early weeks of 1927, Friedrich Hayek, a young Viennese economist, wrote to John Maynard Keynes at King’s College, Cambridge, in England, asking for an economic textbook written 50 years before: Francis Ysidro Edgeworth’s exotically titled “Mathematical Psychics.” Keynes replied with a single line on a plain postcard: “I am sorry to say that my stock of ’Mathematical Psychics’ is exhausted.”

Why did Hayek, an unknown economist with little experience, approach, of all people, Keynes, perhaps the best-known economist in the world?

Scarce Resources
Edgeworth interested Hayek because one of the subjects he explored at length was a topic that would come to engage both Keynes and Hayek: how scarce resources can best maximize the “capacity for pleasure.” The forbiddingly titled “Mathematical Psychics: It anticipated a great number of the debates that would entangle economists over the next century, including notions of “perfect competition,” “game theory” and, most important for the impending battle between Keynes and Hayek, the belief that an economy will reach a state of “equilibrium” with every able- bodied adult fully employed.

(Part 2)
Friedrich Hayek arrived in London in January 1931 to take up an invitation to participate in the most telling duel in the history of economics. His aim, in four lectures at the London School of Economics: Overturn the theories of John Maynard Keynes, and prove that recessions were not caused by a lack of desire from customers to buy goods.

In his second lecture, Hayek addressed an important and, in light of the world slump, a highly topical subject: Under what conditions do resources come to be left unused? He declared that to explain any economic phenomenon it was convenient to assume that over time an economy would reach a state of equilibrium in which all resources would be fully employed. But there would be times in the interim when all available resources were not used.

Of all the ways that production could be increased, Hayek suggested, the most effective was by employing capital to satisfy later demand in what he called “roundabout” methods of production. Hayek drew a diagram on the blackboard in the shape of a triangle. He argued that to meet future demand, entrepreneurs over time invest in a succession of intermediate capital goods -- such as tools and machinery -- that are, in the main, sold to other producers of capital goods. In due course, the employment of these roundabout methods of production led to the provision of more consumer goods in the future. Entrepreneurs were prepared to delay making a profit by investing in such intermediate production methods because it would allow them to produce more consumer goods in the future, thereby fulfilling the desires of consumers, who save today to have more tomorrow.

Core Question
This brought Hayek to the core question of his lecture: How did methods of production needing less capital progress to methods needing more capital? The answer was simple: When people spent less on consumer goods and saved more, their savings were invested in capital goods. But there was another way: More capital goods might be produced when money was made available to producers by bank loans.
This second method, he said, was not real saving but “forced saving” because the new investment had come about not because of an increase in savings but simply because it suited banks to lend. When the money lent to producers was reduced to its former level, the capital invested in equipment was lost.

“We shall see in the next lecture,” he said ominously, “that such a transition to less capitalistic methods of production necessarily takes the form of an economic crisis.”

Dislocation and Collapse
In the third lecture, with his usual impeccably meticulous, if forbiddingly desiccated, approach, Hayek described how an unwarranted increase in borrowing led over time to a dislocation in the production process of capital goods, which, in turn, caused a collapse at the bottom of the business cycle. To help those without a remorselessly analytical bent, Hayek offered an example.

“The situation would be similar to that of a people of an isolated island, if, after having partially constructed an enormous machine which was to provide them with all necessities, they found out that they had exhausted all their savings and available free capital before the new machine could turn out its product,” he said. “They would then have no choice but to abandon temporarily the work on the new process and to devote all their labor to producing their daily food without any capital.”

Link -
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-05/keynes-and-hayek-the-great-debate-pa...
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #593 - Oct 8th, 2011 at 10:52pm
 
Keynes and Hayek, the Great Debate

(Part 2) - Cont


Persistent Unemployment
In the real world, Hayek suggested, the result was persistent unemployment. He offered a simple, if unpalatable, truth to those, like Keynes, who advocated increasing the demand for consumer goods to increase employment: “The machinery of capitalistic production will function smoothly only so long as we are satisfied to consume no more than that part of our total wealth which under the existing organization of production is destined for current consumption. Every increase of consumption, if it is not to disturb production, requires previous new saving.”

Hayek also confronted another Keynesian remedy, that if an idle plant was brought into use, it would spur a depressed economy back to life and increase employment. “What [economists like Keynes] overlook is that … in order that the existing durable plants could be used to their full capacity it would be necessary to invest a great amount of other means of production in lengthy processes which would bear fruit only in a comparatively distant future.”

Artificial Demand
He went on, “It should be fairly clear that the granting of credit to consumers, which has recently been so strongly advocated as a cure for depression, would in fact have quite the contrary effect.” Such “artificial demand,” he suggested, would merely postpone the day of reckoning. “The only way permanently to ‘mobilize’ all available resources is, therefore, not to use artificial stimulants -- whether during a crisis or thereafter - - but to leave it to time to effect a permanent cure.” In brief, there was no easy way out of a slump. In the long run, the free market would restore an economy to an equilibrium that allowed everyone to be employed.

Hayek scored a bull’s-eye with his audience. Here at last was a cogent, convincing repudiation of Keynesian interventionist notions. Hayek showed that the remedies coming from Cambridge, which appeared so plausible, were riddled with logical flaws. Having the best of intentions wasn’t enough. Addressing the symptoms of a depressed economy by investing with borrowed money only made matters worse. Instead, Hayek offered a sober remedy of his own: Forget about quick fixes, the uncomfortable truth is that only time will cure an imbalanced economy. Beware smooth-talking doctors, such as Keynes, who offered a quick cure, for they are charlatans, snake-oil salesmen, and quacks. The market has its own logic and contains its own natural remedy.

Link -
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-06/keynes-and-hayek-the-great-debate-pa...
===========================================
The Truth is that Keynes and Hayek, were both correct & incorrect, depending on the situation!

Anyone care to hazard a guess or two, on the rights & wrongs of these two, in normal situations, versus the current & future circumstances?

The Truth is, that both major Political Party's & their advisors, have no idea of what any of this is about, let alone having any understanding of why neither Economic theory will actually work under the current major Economic factors! 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #594 - Oct 9th, 2011 at 10:18am
 
10 years ago we had Steve Jobs, Johnny Cash and Bob Hope. Now we have no Jobs, no Cash and no Hope.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #595 - Oct 9th, 2011 at 2:02pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 10:18am:
10 years ago we had Steve Jobs, Johnny Cash and Bob Hope. Now we have no Jobs, no Cash and no Hope.


Very good & apt, Pansi!
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #596 - Oct 9th, 2011 at 4:57pm
 
Fitch Downgrades Spain, Italy on "Intensification of Euro Zone Crisis"; Outlook Negative; Greek 1-Year Bond Yield Hits 144%


Spain and Italy, the euro region’s fourth- and third-largest economies, were downgraded by Fitch Ratings on concern they will struggle to improve their finances as Europe’s debt crisis intensifies.

Spain had its foreign and local currency long-term issuer default ratings cut to AA- from AA+, while Italy had the same set of ratings to A+ from AA-, the company said in statements today.

Moody’s also warned “all but the strongest euro-area sovereigns” are likely to see further downgrades, when it cut Italy’s rating for the first time in almost two decades.

Spain’s Socialist government, which faces a general election on Nov. 20,
has said the country may miss its 2011 growth forecast of 1.3 percent as the recovery slows. Unemployment remains above 21 percent and the manufacturing industry contracted the most in more than two years in September. Regional governments, which are responsible for health and education and hire half of Spain’s public workers, are behind schedule to meet their deficit targets, preliminary data showed on Sept. 8.

Nothing has been solved in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece or for that matter Europe in general.

The yield on Greek 1-Year Government Bonds ended the day at 144%
.

Link -
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/10/fitch-downgrades-spain-italy-...
=============================================
The Truth is, these are the effects of the major Factors influencing the Global Economy and those factors are far from finished.

MORE turmoil can be expected, for quite some time.

Politicians & Economists, can not defeat these factors, the can only delay their impact for a while, but in doing so, they make the final effects worse, as they do when bailing out the financial sector, at the Public expense!
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #597 - Oct 10th, 2011 at 1:38pm
 
For information purposes, the following links have embedded videos, in which the Dexia break up is discussed -

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/77117294/

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/77182886/

http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/709.cfm?awt_l=5oxEA&awt_m=3XLlokYhVxAZ85B

Interestingly, the DOW Futures are currently up about 1%, just over 100 points, notwithstanding the Forex insiders online survey is currently showing at 67% Bearish.
There are some interesting contradictions about!  
http://www.forexpros.com/indices/us-30-futures-advanced-chart
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #598 - Oct 11th, 2011 at 8:12pm
 
Trichet Sees ‘Systemic’ Danger as Greek Writedowns Divide EU


European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet warned of threats to the financial system as the conflict among political leaders intensified over how to extricate Europe from the debt crisis.

“The crisis has reached a systemic dimension,” Trichet told European lawmakers in Brussels today. “Sovereign stress has moved from smaller economies to some of the larger countries. The crisis is systemic and must be tackled decisively.”

European officials are toiling to meet an end-of-month deadline set by French President Nicolas Sarkozy to get to grips with the crisis, which has propelled Greece to the brink of default, shaken world markets and fueled speculation that the 17-nation currency might not survive in its current form.

Greek bondholders may face writedowns of more than 60 percent, Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker said, setting the stage for high-stakes bargaining at an Oct. 23 crisis summit. Asked by Austrian television last night whether Europe is considering writedowns of 50 percent to 60 percent, Juncker, who chairs euro-area finance meetings, said: “We’re talking about more.”

Germany, Europe’s largest economy, is pushing for bondholder losses that go beyond the 21 percent envisioned in a July accord, running into resistance from the ECB and commercial banks.

“There’s no obvious solution,” Luxembourg Finance Minister Luc Frieden told reporters in Luxembourg today. “There are several options that must be examined from the technical and political points of view.”

For Greece, the endgame drew nearer with an announcement that EU, ECB and IMF experts are likely to complete their economic-review mission today.

The report will put Greece’s 2011 budget deficit at 9.1 percent of gross domestic product, missing the original target of 7.5 percent and a revised target of 8.5 percent, Kathimerini newspaper reported, without citing anyone.

Link -
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-11/trichet-sees-systemic-danger-as-greek-w...
====================================
So, what does all that mean?

Well, the Truth is that -
1) Greece is on the brink of default.
2) Greek bondholders will face massive writedowns, of more than 60 percent.
3) Stress has moved from smaller economies to some of the larger countries.
4) The crisis is now systemic.
5) There is no obvious solution.
6) The 17-nation currency is not likely to survive in its current form!
7) The Europe problem, will become Global.

And, all of that is only one of the side effects of the major factors driving this Global Economic event!

By way of comparison, Australian currently has a -
GDP of around $1.2 Trillion
Deficit of around $48 Billion (4% of GDP)
Debt of about $200 Billion (17% of GDP)

Whereas Greece has a -
GDP of around $312 Billion
Deficit of around $28 Billion (9% of GDP)
Debt of about $470 Billion (150% of GDP)

And, if Australia were in Greece's position, then the oZ financials would be -
GDP of around $1.2 Trillion
Deficit of around $108 Billion (9% of GDP)
Debt of about $1.8 Trillion (150% of GDP)


Regrettably, we in OZ, can be certain that we will be sorely tested by the GFC MK2!
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« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2011 at 8:36pm by perceptions_now »  
 
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #599 - Oct 12th, 2011 at 7:08am
 
thanks for the explanation perce.

2) Greek bondholders will face massive writedowns, of more than 60 percent.

does this mean that whoever Greece owe money to will only get 40% of it back and the rest will be written off?

Do the countries have a choice to appeal for the full 100% if that's the case?

hypothetically....if Greece owed Australia $1000 and they say we can't pay it all back but we'll give you $400 that's it, would Australia just leave it at that or does the IMF, Germany and other EU countries cough up the other 60%?

I don't get what happens when they say they write it off or writedowns.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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