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Global Economic Downturn to Continue? (Read 98943 times)
Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #540 - Sep 15th, 2011 at 6:32am
 
<<ie - Beware the promise of Greeks bearing gifts, of Chinese giving money away to countries that are bankrupt and of making false assumptions.>>
................................................................................


Do you think it's a rumour?

I believed it at first, well it sort of makes sense. It's in China's interest that Europe doesn't crash.

Later I heard that China will not be bailing anyone out.

It might be a wait-and-see thing. China are never going to announce their intentions to the west in advance.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #541 - Sep 16th, 2011 at 12:40am
 
I hope not, because I am about to retire, and I want to have the comfortable retirement that I should be able to afford, providing my super fund doesn't crash to zero.
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #542 - Sep 16th, 2011 at 12:40pm
 
Central banks act as economy hits 'dangerous new phase'

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Christine Lagarde: "We have entered into a very dangerous zone of the crisis"
Continue reading the main story
Global Economy

     Eurozone 'coming to a standstill'
     Could Greece be Europe's Lehman?
     French banks feel eurozone pain

Five central banks have announced a co-ordinated move to try to help the financial system, as the boss of the International Monetary Fund warns of a "dangerous" new economic phase

The central banks are to provide commercial banks with three additional tranches of loans to help ease funding pressures.

Banking stocks rose sharply, with BNP Paribas up as much as 22%.

IMF managing director Christine Lagarde said "bold action" was needed.

Speaking in Washington, she said: "Uncertainty hovers over sovereigns across the advanced economies, banks in Europe, and households in the United States.

"Without collective, bold, action, there is a real risk that the major economies slip back instead of moving forward."

She added that the debt woes in the eurozone also risked harming economies in the developing world.

"If the advanced economies succumb to recession, the emerging markets will not escape," said Ms Lagarde.

The move by the Federal Reserve, Bank of England, European Central Bank, Bank of Japan and Swiss National Bank follows fears about the exposure of banks - primarily those in Europe - to eurozone sovereign debt.

This concern has made European banks reluctant to lend to each other, creating the risk of short-term funding problems for those most exposed.

European banks and their American counterparts have been moving funds out of Europe in recent months because of these exposure fears, worsening the liquidity problems in the eurozone banking system.

The new loans are being issued in dollars, because European banks can already access additional euro funds from the European Central Bank.

The three additional three-month loan offers will be conducted in October, November and December.

The main central banks carried out similar action to boost the liquidity of commercial lenders at the height of the financial crisis in 2008. The facility has been withdrawn and reintroduced a number of times since then.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14928774


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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #543 - Sep 16th, 2011 at 8:57pm
 
Limits To Keynesianism


...

While Keynesianism appears to have a benevolent, humanistic intent it is greatly disappointing that so many of its advocates do not also recognize its destructive aspects. Yes, free markets misallocate capital routinely. But Keynesianism as a policy also distributes capital unevenly, and unfairly. First receivers of government capital gain competitive advantages. First receivers of easy monetary policy also gain, and become predatory. The housing bubble was perhaps the most spectacular example of the destructive force of easy money, which resulted in a huge transfer of risk and wealth, recycled through society.

But the greatest flaw with Keynesianism now is that, like the economy itself, it has run squarely into the energy limit. As the most recently updated data shows, 2011 will be the 6th year that world production of crude oil was unable to increase beyond the ceiling established in 2005.

Oil remains the primary energy input to OECD economies. OECD economies are of course where the Keynesian experiment has flourished longest, first in Japan, then the United States and now Europe. It is hardly, hardly the case that the current financial crisis in the OECD is “simply a matter of accounting.” Instead, the crisis is one of systemic, structural growth now permanently limited by energy costs as OECD economies try to service debt loads that have escaped their ability to manage. Change all the digits, and the energy limit remains.

The redoubling of government efforts to distribute paper capital to society will not bring forth the cheap energy required to spur the growth Keynesians either assume, or have failed to even consider.

Link -
http://seekingalpha.com/article/293689-limits-to-keynesianism?source=email_macro...
========================================
There are other problems with the Keynesian model, as there is with the Austrian model, but Peak Energy is certainly one of the major stumbling blocks, as are the Demographic issues currently going thru the system!

That said, this graph makes it clear that we are now at Hubbert's Oil Peak plateau and have been since 2005 and that creates an enormous array of problems, Economic & otherwise!
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perceptions_now
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #544 - Sep 18th, 2011 at 8:57am
 
Seniors' slice of population hits 23.3%

The Japan Times Online

Elderly people now make up a record 23.3 percent of the population, the internal affairs ministry said in an estimate Friday.

A record-high 29.8 million people were 65 or over
as of Thursday, up 240,000, or 0.2 percentage point, from the previous year, the data said.

The tally of seniors breaks down to about 12.73 million men, or 20.5 percent of the male population, and 17.07 million women, or 26.0 percent of the female population, the estimate said.

The estimate is based on data from the 2010 census.

The estimate for those 80 or above was 8.66 million, it said.

Pension benefits to be cut
The government is studying a proposal to cut public pension benefits based on deflation in past years and plans to carry out the change over a three-year period starting in fiscal 2012, sources said Thursday.

Link -
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110917a2.html
============================================
So, there are now 23.3% of Japanese who are over 65 years and too old to work, as they are past the retirement age and there is approximately another 13% who are under 15 and too young to work.

...
http://www.jillstanek.com/2009/02/japan-to-workers-go-forth-and-multiply/

That means, just over one in every three Japanese, is now excluded from the workforce, due to their age!

That is not all that different to their situation from 1950, where some 40.3% fitted that same age area.

However, the Japanese are in transition from the old style Population pyramid of large numbers in the younger (under 15 year olds) Demographic coming thru to working age and very few older pensioners, to what appears to be the complete reversal, by 2050!

So, by 2050 one in every two japanese will be excluded from the workforce, 4 in every 10 will be on an aged pension (compared to 1 in every 25 back in 1950) and those youngsters (under 15) coming thru into the workforce will have shrunk to less than 10% of the total population, compared to some 35% back in 1950.

The questions remain -
1) Who does the work?
2) How can the country afford to pay the pensions?
3) How does the country avoid bankruptcy?
4) What happens to Consumer Demand in Japan, as that older population segment move into a more frugal retirement and then start to die off?
5) As the implications are apparent, why were measures not taken earlier, to compensate?

And, what impact does that suggest for the rest of the world, as most other countries are set to follow a similar pattern to Japan, just delayed by around 20 years?
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #545 - Sep 19th, 2011 at 11:56pm
 
11272.00
-237.09 (-2.06%)

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/zs=%5eDJI&t=1d&q=l&l=on&z=l&a=v&p=s&lang=en-AU&region=AU

Seems like another long session ahead!

The DOW is already down well over 200 points and it has only been open for 20 minutes!
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #546 - Sep 21st, 2011 at 1:41pm
 
Sharp drop for economy, IMF warns


Markets have clearly become more sceptical about the ability of many countries to stabilise their public debt.

THE International Monetary Fund has slashed its economic forecasts for Australia, warning of a new global recession that would hit commodity prices and drive millions worldwide into unemployment.

Hours before the fund published its unexpectedly gloomy update in Washington, the Reserve Bank of Australia released a statement expressing concern about the global outlook and opening the way for interest rate cuts should things deteriorate.

The Australian dollar slid to a five-week low of US102¢ over renewed concerns about Europe after Italy lost its A+ credit rating. Australian shares fell 1 per cent.

The fund says Australia will grow at only 1.8 per cent this year, down from its previously forecast 3 per cent. The figure is way below the May budget forecast and only half the most recent Reserve Bank forecast, suggesting it will be harder than expected to reach the promised budget surplus in 2012-13.

But it points out that these are best-case forecasts, made on the assumption that almost everything goes right.

Its best case is for "anaemic" growth in the advanced economies of 1.6 per cent and for global growth of 4 per cent.

"However, this assumes European policymakers contain the crisis in the euro area periphery, that US policymakers strike a judicious balance between support for the economy and medium-term fiscal consolidation, and that volatility in global financial markets does not escalate," the fund says.

If one or more of its best-case scenarios does not eventuate, the US and much of Europe could slide back into recession, commodity prices could fall "abruptly" and much of the rest of the world would face a repeat of the global financial crisis.

The update is prefaced by an unusual apology. The chief economist, Olivier Blanchard, says he "largely failed to perceive" the slowdown as it was happening this year, wrongly blaming it at first on one-off events such as the earthquake and tsunami in Japan.

The Treasurer, Wayne Swan, who is about to go to Washington for the annual meetings of the IMF and World Bank, said the update was a "stark warning" that indicated the global economy had entered "a dangerous new phase".

The Reserve expressed concern about "extreme volatility in financial markets" reflecting fears about a global slowdown and an escalation of debt troubles in the US and Europe. It would note these developments in deciding how to move rates.
Link -
http://www.smh.com.au/business/sharp-drop-for-economy-imf-warns-20110920-1kjn6.h...
==========================================

A few observations -
1) There is zero chance of any best case scenario getting a look in, over the next 18 months or so!

2) In looking at these amended IMF Growth figures or any other growth figures for that matter, one should always keep in mind what is Nominal & what is Real
Nominal Growth is what is being used here, by the IMF, when they refer to Growth in Australia this year being 1.8%
Nominal growth
is also what's being referred to, when the IMF says that advanced economies will Grow at 1.6% and that global growth will be at 4%.
Real Growth
however, needs to have inflation deducted and when that is applied, all of these Growth figures, suddenly become negative!

In the case of China, it is still said that China is Growing at 9%, but what is not so prominently said is that the Chinese inflation rate is now around 7.5-8.0%, which may still leave some Real Growth. However, even that may be illusory, as Demand starts to slow significantly in both Europe & the USA. That decline in Demand from Europe & the USA will also be reflected in the other BRIC countries and a flow-on effect will be a decline in commodities, from countries such as Australia, which is partially the reasoning for the recent weakening of the OZ$.  

All of that said, these issues have not all of a sudden become "obvious or expected", organisations such as the IMF, the RBA, the FED Reserve, various Financial commentators/Economists and major Polictical Party's, particularly those who are in government have knowledge of the major factors which are influencing Global Economics, but they usually do not mention expected adverse outcome, because that extra credence may just make those possible outcomes into self fullfilling prophecies.

Then, there is also the issue of self interest, which also especially relevant to TPTB and which trickles down thru the system to Politicians and the like!  

The Truth is, we are very much like the old MUSHROOMS, we are expected to grow in the dark and be fed
crap
-
C
redible
R
eliable
A
bundant
P
aradoxes
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perceptions_now
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #547 - Sep 21st, 2011 at 11:02pm
 
Nervous Breakdown? 21 Signs That Something Big Is About To Happen In The Financial World


My summary of article -
1. Astounding number of put contracts for S&P500 in October
2. Investors pulling money out of stocks faster than after Lehman bankruptcy.
3. Siemens moving 500B euros from French banks to ECB
4. Italy downgraded on Monday from A+ to A.
5. ECB buying Italian and Spanish debt to prop up the market.
6. Major central banks to make unlimited funds available for Q4 borrowing
7. Top Italian bank down over half this year and the 2nd largest is down 44%.
8. 82% of Germans think the government is doing a bad job.
9. Greece in full blown economic collapse
10. Greek finances continue to deteriorate despite austerity programs.
11. Greek interest rates on one year bond at 129%.
12. Greek government has only enough cash to operate for one month.
13. Italy now has a debt to GDP ratio of about 120% and their economy is far, far larger than the economy of Greece.
14. 2 year Portuguese bonds go from 4% to 17% in last year.
15. China has stopped swaps and forwards trading with several European banks.
16. Central banks in Europe going for gold.
17. IMF head says world is in a dangerous new phase.
18. Russia has dumped 95% of its US treasuries and Israel has dumped 46%.
19. Fed expected to buy more bonds (Operation Twist).
20. Obama tax plan incentivizes dumping of stocks before 2012.
21. Merrill Lynch estimates 80% chance of double dip recession.

Link -
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/nervous-breakdown-21-signs-that-some...
===========================================
The name of the site where the article appears is "The Economic Collapse", so it would seem likely they are pre-disposed to the conclusion of this article.

That said, most of the 21 "signs" would seem to be accurate AND I would agree that all indications suggest that it is likely that very torrid times are ahead!
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #548 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 6:28am
 
<<That said, most of the 21 "signs" would seem to be accurate AND I would agree that all indications suggest that it is likely that very torrid times are ahead! >>
..............................................................................

Not far ahead by the looks of things. It's unusual for the IMF to give warnings about impending doom. They didn't in 2008, not that I know of anyway. Did they even see the signs in 2008? maybe not.

It seems all the stimulus and austerity measures in the world won't stop this economic tsunami.

At least this time it won't come as a shock and everyone should be prepared with all the warnings. Pay down your debt, sit tight and watch the side show on Wall Street.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #549 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 8:50am
 
U.S. Stocks Drop on Fed’s Plan to ‘Twist’


U.S. stocks slid, while Treasuries and the dollar rallied, after the Federal Reserve announced plans to buy $400 billion of long-term debt in an effort to combat “significant downside risks” to the economy.

The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index tumbled the most in a month, losing 2.9 percent to 1,166.76 at the 4 p.m. close in New York and extending a three-day drop to 4.1 percent. Ten-year Treasury yields dropped to a record low and 30-year bond rates slid to the lowest since January 2009, while two-year yields rose. The Dollar Index climbed 1 percent to a seven-month high of 77.802. Lead, nickel and sugar fell more than 3 percent to lead the S&P GSCI Index to a one-month low.

Financial shares in the S&P 500 led losses and sank to a two-year low after Moody’s Investors Service cut credit ratings on three banks and the Fed said “strains in global financial markets” were among risks to the economic outlook. The Fed will replace some shorter-term debt in its portfolio with longer-term Treasuries in an effort to further reduce borrowing costs and keep the economy from relapsing into a recession, confirming market speculation that policy makers were planning an “Operation Twist” similar to a program in 1961.

“Markets took note of the Fed’s downward revision of the economic outlook and upgrading of downside financial risks,” Mohamed A. El-Erian, chief executive officer at Pacific Investment Management Co. in Newport Beach, California, wrote in an e-mail.

Fed’s Plan
The central bank will buy $400 billion of bonds with maturities of six to 30 years through June while selling an equal amount of debt maturing in three years or less. The Fed’s plan to replace short-term Treasuries in its $1.65 trillion portfolio with long-term debt will probably fail to lower the 9.1 percent unemployment rate, according to 61 percent of economists surveyed by Bloomberg before the announcement. The Fed also said today it will reinvest maturing housing debt into mortgage-backed securities instead of Treasuries.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank 283.82 points, or 2.5 percent, to 11,124.84


“The markets apparently were hoping for a large, magic pill for an anemic economy that feels like it’s catching the flu,” Barton Biggs, managing partner and co-founder of hedge fund Traxis Partners LP in New York, said in an e-mail.

Financials Plunge
The S&P 500 Financials Index (S5FINL) fell to the lowest level since July 2009. Bank of America Corp. tumbled 7.5 percent after Moody’s Investors Service downgraded the bank’s long-term debt rating. Wells Fargo & Co. also had its long-term rating cut, wiping out an earlier gain and dragging the stock down 3.9 percent. Citigroup Inc. (C) fell 5.2 percent as Moody’s cut its short-term debt rating. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. closed below $100 for the first time since March 2009.

Coal and Train Stocks
Commodity producers in the S&P 500 sank 4.5 percent as a group for the second-biggest slide after financial shares. Alpha Natural Resources Inc. and Walter Energy Inc., two U.S. producers of coal used in steelmaking, tumbled at least 12 percent after they cut output and sales forecasts respectively. Railroad companies slumped following the forecasts, with CSX Corp. and Norfolk Southern Corp. sliding more than 8 percent.

Oil lost 1.2 percent to $85.92 a barrel, erasing earlier gains which were triggered by a U.S. Department of Energy report that crude inventories fell by 7.34 million barrels to an eight- month low of 339 million last week.

Link -
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-21/most-asian-stocks-oil-fall-as-yen-climb...
==========================================
A few observations -
1) There is "NO magic pill" in the FED's bag of ammunition!
2) Financials & Commodities have the largest downside exposure.
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #550 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 12:00pm
 
I thought that by having $400 billion less debt would be a good thing lol

Australian stocks dive on US market woes

MORE than $21 billion was wiped off the Australian sharemarket this morning after Wall Street backed away from US Federal Reserve Bank's stimulus plan.

US stocks dived after the Federal Reserve announced a $400 billion stimulus plan to support the US economy - painting a grim economic picture and citing slow growth and risk to recovery.

In Australia, the stock market was down 82.4 points - or 2.03 per cent - when it reached 3989.4 at 10.10am.

The All Ordinaries index was also down 80.8 points, or 1.95 per cent, at 4072.8.

On the ASX 24, the December share price index futures contract was down 83 points at 4002, with 10,219 contracts traded.

In a plan dubbed "Operation Twist," the US Fed said it would switch bonds in its huge portfolio with a maturity of less than three years to bonds with a maturity of six to 30 years.

The move would not involve printing any more money, but supporters say it could lower rates and prod cash-rich banks to put their idle reserves to work

The Dow Jones Industrial Average plummeted 2.49 per cent in closing trade, while the S&P 500 dropped 2.94 per cent and the Nasdaq slid 2.01 per cent.

The US Federal Reserve Bank's plan was a revival of 1961 "Operation Twist" bond-buying program.

Aside from the Fed's measures, Moody's downgraded three top US banks - Bank of America, Wells Fargo and Citigroup - as it sees the US government less willing than before to rescue them if they become unstable.

Read more:

http://www.news.com.au/business/markets/us-stocks-plunge-after-fed-action/story-...
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #551 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 10:41pm
 
U.S. Stock Futures Drop as Global Risks Grow



U.S. stock-index futures dropped, signaling the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index may fall for a fourth day, amid concern global economic growth is slowing and that banks may find it increasingly difficult to obtain funding.


Futures
on the S&P 500 expiring in December dropped 2.5 percent to 1,126.6 at 7:21 a.m. in New York, reversing an earlier gain.
Contracts on the Dow Jones Industrial Average retreated 242 points, or 2.2 percent, to 10,765
.


U.S. futures accelerated their declines as a report showed China’s manufacturing may contract for a third month in September as measures of export orders and output decline.

“There are significant downside risks to the economic outlook, including strains in global financial markets,” the Fed statement said.
Chairman Ben S. Bernanke expanded use of unconventional monetary tools for a second straight meeting after job gains stalled and the government lowered its estimate of second-quarter economic growth.

“The Fed’s action will support the overall U.S. economy, but that’s not enough to dramatically improve its unemployment rate, and it will be difficult to get the recovery back on track again in the near future,” said Warit Kathong, a Tokyo-based fund manager at United Investments Co., which manages about $1.8 billion globally. “Markets are still in a risk-off mode. China’s manufacturing figure is also showing it will not help the global economic recovery.”

Link -
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-22/u-s-stock-futures-drop-on-signs-global-...
============================================

I just knew, I'd picked the wrong day, to give up drinking?


The DOW Futures are still off some 226 points now and if that were to be that way the DOW finishes its Thursday trading, then the DOW may be heading for a 510 point loss, in 2 days trading?

Of course, currently volatility means anything is possible? TPTB may come up with another "magic bullett" (read hair brained scheme), which may send the market sky-rocketing (temporarily) OR send it even further down than where DOW Futures are currently pointing?

And, the later may be the case as DOW futures have fallen further since I typed in down 226 AND it is now down 254!

Yet another interesting session ahead?
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #552 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:58pm
 
10,752.94  
Down 371.90 (3.34%)


http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/zs=%5eDJI&t=1d&q=&l=&z=l&a=v&p=s&lang=en-AU&region=AU

Interactive & quick to update
http://www.google.com/finance?q=INDEXDJX:.DJI

It would seem a matter of HOW UGLY?
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #553 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 12:26am
 



Unfortunately, there is a very real risk that: one day soon we may wake up to find trade suspended in all global stockmarkets and all of our electronic banking accounts inaccessible - and security guards stationed at the locked doors of our banks...

How long before total anarchy would erupt!?

Hmmnnn....is it time to start stocking up on some extra groceries!?

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Re: Global Economic Downturn to Continue?
Reply #554 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 6:11am
 
Quote:
Hmmnnn....is it time to start stocking up on some extra groceries!?


It's a ludricrous premise to think that you might employ fairness so that only fairness will be employed.

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