Australian Politics Forum - Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey

darkhall67

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Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey
Reply #30 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:15pm

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:10pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 2:26pm:

You don't need to experience 'God' to understand a religion....

Gods are (apparently) eternal supreme beings etc etc..
Religion, on the other hand, is a HUMAN attempt to explain or understand gods....

The rules, commandments, doctrines etc are human constructs....and as such are quite easy to understand.....

I'd argue that unless you experience God in some way, you can't understand a religion. I never did, but some people do.

But as an ignostic isnt saying "unless you experience god" as meaningless as saying "does god exist" ?

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey Reply #31 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:21pm darkhall67 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:15pm: But as an ignostic isnt saying "unless you experience god" as meaningless as saying "does god exist" ? I'm talking about the experience of God held by believers.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey
Reply #32 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:25pm

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:10pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 2:26pm:

You don't need to experience 'God' to understand a religion....

Gods are (apparently) eternal supreme beings etc etc..
Religion, on the other hand, is a HUMAN attempt to explain or understand gods....

The rules, commandments, doctrines etc are human constructs....and as such are quite easy to understand.....

I'd argue that unless you experience God in some way, you can't understand a religion. I never did, but some people do.

I'm not making any statement about the nature or even existence of God here (and it really doesn't matter from my perspective) - just the experience.

Most people who are active followers of some religions talk of God working through them or some kind of personal relationship with God. To them, it's more than just a dry framework of rules.

As an analogy, try to understand about dogs and you'll understand about God (no disrespect intended). From your perspective dogs serve no real purpose. They consume food and it costs money to maintain a dog properly. They defecate over your front lawn and they die after a relatively short period. So why bother with a dog? Many people do. Many people just can't see the attraction of having a creature that is slightly removed from a wild predator in their homes.

Unless you have had a dog, then you will never understand dogs.

A question for you - Do dogs exist in the way that dog owners believe them to?

And I'd argue exactly the opposite...

It's not necessary to have had a dog, in order to understand the concept of pets...

The 'idea' of anything doesn't actually require real, firsthand experience to understand it...

I haven't ever given birth to a child....but I understand the concept of 'children'....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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muso

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Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey
Reply #33 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:31pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:25pm:

And I'd argue exactly the opposite...

It's not necessary to have had a dog, in order to understand the concept of pets...

The 'idea' of anything doesn't actually require real, firsthand experience to understand it...

I haven't ever given birth to a child....but I understand the concept of 'children'....

What I'm trying to get across is that different experiences influence our beliefs and attitudes.

The concept of a dog as a pet has nothing to do with the attitudes and the feelings that a pet owner has towards his dog. (in some cases)

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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey Reply #34 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:32pm I'm an athiest. I've read the Bible. I've also read The Hobbit. I got more from The Hobbit.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey Reply #35 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:38pm Life_goes_on wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:32pm: I'm an athiest. I've read the Bible. I've also read The Hobbit. I got more from The Hobbit. The Hobbit was fun. I've never read the Bible from cover to cover.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey
Reply #36 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:44pm

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:31pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:25pm:

And I'd argue exactly the opposite...

It's not necessary to have had a dog, in order to understand the concept of pets...

The 'idea' of anything doesn't actually require real, firsthand experience to understand it...

I haven't ever given birth to a child....but I understand the concept of 'children'....

What I'm trying to get across is that different experiences influence our beliefs and attitudes.

The concept of a dog as a pet has nothing to do with the attitudes and the feelings that a pet owner has towards his dog. (in some cases)

Fair enough...but it's still NOT necessary to have 'spoken to God' to understand or accept the concept of religious faith...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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darkhall67 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1935	Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey Reply #37 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:45pm Lisa do NOT delete my posts. This is not the yahoo messageboard.
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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey Reply #38 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:45pm I read the Bible on the train going to and from work. It's funny how many people stare at you reading the Bible on the train.
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey Reply #39 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:46pm Well .. as it so happens .. I've read BOTH The Hobbit AND The Bible cover to cover .. at age 12 <-- we had long Christmas breaks back then ok lol
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darkhall67

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Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey
Reply #40 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:48pm

Life_goes_on wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:45pm:

I read the Bible on the train going to and from work. It's funny how many people stare at you reading the Bible on the train.

Experience has probably taught them that you will either start yabbering on about how jesus has saved you or pull out a gun and go on a spree.

Either way , their caution is understandable.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey
Reply #41 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:48pm

Hey has anyone seen Darkhall??

He hasn't responded to this earlier post of mine as yet:

That may be true with your friends but the point of the article and survey is that atheists and agnostics have a wider knowledge of whats in the bible than so called "believers".

If none of your atheist /agnostic friends have read it and are STILL more knowledgeable about it's contents than most christians , then that's a very telling point.

- Darkhall67

Perhaps you ought to take another look at the survey in your OP. It doesn't support what you've just stated.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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darkhall67

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Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey
Reply #42 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:49pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 4:48pm:

Hey has anyone seen Darkhall??

He hasn't responded to this earlier post of mine as yet:

That may be true with your friends but the point of the article and survey is that atheists and agnostics have a wider knowledge of whats in the bible than so called "believers".

If none of your atheist /agnostic friends have read it and are STILL more knowledgeable about it's contents than most christians , then that's a very telling point.

- Darkhall67

Perhaps you ought to take another look at the survey in your OP. It doesn't support what you've just stated.

And how do I know that if I answer you wont delete the post?

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey Reply #43 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 5:01pm This is the point in your life where you're gonna have to exercise a bit of TRUST, BELIEF and A LITTLE FAITH for once.. ok Darkhall Besides which .. it's a great topic .. and you're its author. Right??
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darkhall67

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Re: Atheists, Jews top religious knowledge survey
Reply #44 - Sep 29^th, 2010 at 5:03pm

"Lisa wrote on Today at 1:13pm:
Religious knowledge has very little to do with personal religious belief, and even less to do with spirituality.

- Muso

Yeah .. that's so true!

Some of my best friends are Agnostics or Atheists .. interestingly enough .. they possess a good religious knowledge base .. but that's about it. "

"That's about it"? So are you saying that their knowledge of religion and religious issues is good but they dont possess much knowledge in other subjects?

Or that they have a good knowledge of religious issues but dont possess much spirituality?

Or that they possess a good knowledge of religious issues but dont possess the ethical and moral values that religious belief supposedly imbues?i
And would you please answer my question posted earlier.

I am particularly seeking clarity on the "but that's about it" part.

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