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Still borrowing $100 million per day? (Read 16477 times)
perceptions_now
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #105 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 11:58am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 16th, 2010 at 10:39am:
If you can't afford it, you can't have it Bobby.

The answer is never to provide things and pay for it by borrowing
.


That is why Left wing Governments fail all over the world like in Greece.

Sooner or later debt needs to be repaid.

If that means services or public spending has to be cut, then so be it.

It's called budgeting.


Andrei,
What a load of CRAP!


If everyone proceeded on that basis, then no one would buy houses or cars, no one would start businesses, governments would never be able manage their national or Global Economy. Not that governments are doing a particularly good job , anyway!

Debt is like Food, you've got to have it & it's fine in moderation!


In fact, if individuals, Businesses & Governments did not leverage future earnings, into what we do & use today, then the entire Global Monetary system & Economy would collapse. Now that may happen anyway, but not simply because of Debt/Credit!

The fact is that most individuals, Families, Businesses & Governments use Debt/Credit and have done so for quite some time and usually everything works just fine, where it is used in moderation and people properly budget their earning capacity, to their expenditure.

Where things go astray, is usually because peoples expectations exceed reality, either personally or collectively and sometimes this is beyond the capability of the individual to predict!

In terms of Government Debt, it is quite usual for governments of all persuasions to USE Debt in moderation, as is easily shown throughout the world, particularly as it has been used in the past, as a tool to smooth out bumps in the Economy, in light of Keynesian Economic practice (Stimulus).

In current terms, the Australian Debt to GDP ratio is well within  past standard international parameters, which can not be said for many other nations around the world.

That said, we need to start looking outside the square, as on this occasion more stimulus & more Debt, will not make Demand rebound and the result will be ever increasing Debt, to the point where the Monetary , Economic & Political systems collapse.

So, Australia has so far avoided the effects of the current GFC, by incurring this additional Debt and in net Economic terms, we have probably lost on the swings (Debt), but made up on the roundabout (Economic Activity), but that was a temporary effect only and it will not continue.

As the Macro Global Economic factors continue to grind away Demand will continue to Decline and continued stimulus spending, in the face of Demand & Energy Declines, can only result in increasing Debt beyond safe limits, resulting in the collapse of National & Global systems.

If collapse is to be avoided, then we would need to stop trying to maintain the status quo and move quickly toward cutting as much fat out of the system as possible, whilst trying to maintain as much of the Public disposable income as possible, to support Demand & shift away from the current Energy sources, as quickly as possible.

Will we succeed?
Regrettably, I suspect the answer will be no!
Why?
Because the human condition, will most likely not allow us to attain enuff agreement to even start the process in time, let alone finish it successfully!


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culldav
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #106 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 12:00pm
 
The Yanks didn’t print their own money, they gave the Reserve Banks (which is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks and privately owned entities) bonds for the make believe money the yanks received.

Its ridiculous to reference what happened when Germany printed its own money and caused hyperinflation; that’s was nearly a century ago.

I am not suggesting that Australia print its own money for everything, just print money for public projects, where these projects start adding wealth to the overall country as assets, and doesn’t devalue the country or the currency.   

If Australia printed its own money for the public projects like BER and the insulation scheme, surely that would have been a good thing for the Australian tax payers in not footing the interest bills for foreign loans.

Australia printed its own money without interest for the public project of the Nullarbor railway back in 1927, and the world didn’t come to an end then, so why not try it again and see what happens.

The housing bubble in Australia will burst considering the overall wealth of homes in Australia are 65% above their actual worth.
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Bobby.
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #107 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 12:12pm
 
culldav wrote on Sep 16th, 2010 at 12:00pm:
The Yanks didn’t print their own money, they gave the Reserve Banks (which is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks and privately owned entities) bonds for the make believe money the yanks received.

Its ridiculous to reference what happened when Germany printed its own money and caused hyperinflation; that’s was nearly a century ago.

I am not suggesting that Australia print its own money for everything, just print money for public projects, where these projects start adding wealth to the overall country as assets, and doesn’t devalue the country or the currency.  

If Australia printed its own money for the public projects like BER and the insulation scheme, surely that would have been a good thing for the Australian tax payers in not footing the interest bills for foreign loans.

Australia printed its own money without interest for the public project of the Nullarbor railway back in 1927, and the world didn’t come to an end then, so why not try it again and see what happens.

The housing bubble in Australia will burst considering the overall wealth of homes in Australia are 65% above their actual worth.



We don't print money like that because it causes hyperinflation.
e.g. Zimbabwe. - you need a wheel barrow of money
to buy a loaf of bread.
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culldav
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #108 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 12:32pm
 
Bobby

Back in 1927 Australia printed its own currency without forcing tax payers to pay back interest on a foreign loan to build the Nullarbor rail line (public project) without any problems to Australia’s currency.

So what are you saying?

I don’t understand what the problem could possibly be in the Australian Government printing its own currency interest free for public works projects.

If this can be done back in 1927 without a problem, then is it not reasonable to suggest the same thing could happen now also without problems?

Are you happy that a 1/3 of your tax dollars goes to paying back interest on foreign loans?

Wouldn’t you be more content seeing that money going into building better infrastructure in Australia, or as a last resort, just being able to save that money?
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Bobby.
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #109 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 12:41pm
 
Culldav
Quote:
Are you happy that a 1/3 of your tax dollars goes to paying back interest on foreign loans?


I am not happy about all the borrowing going on.
We must live within our means.
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perceptions_now
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #110 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 12:50pm
 
culldav wrote on Sep 16th, 2010 at 12:32pm:
Bobby

Back in 1927 Australia printed its own currency without forcing tax payers to pay back interest on a foreign loan to build the Nullarbor rail line (public project) without any problems to Australia’s currency.

So what are you saying?

I don’t understand what the problem could possibly be in the Australian Government printing its own currency interest free for public works projects.

If this can be done back in 1927 without a problem, then is it not reasonable to suggest the same thing could happen now also without problems?

Are you happy that a 1/3 of your tax dollars goes to paying back interest on foreign loans?

Wouldn’t you be more content seeing that money going into building better infrastructure in Australia, or as a last resort, just being able to save that money?


Now that would be an "interesting" explanation?

I'd like to see that!
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« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2010 at 1:17pm by perceptions_now »  
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #111 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 1:34pm
 
culldav wrote on Sep 16th, 2010 at 12:32pm:
Bobby

Back in 1927 Australia printed its own currency without forcing tax payers to pay back interest on a foreign loan to build the Nullarbor rail line (public project) without any problems to Australia’s currency.

So what are you saying?

I don’t understand what the problem could possibly be in the Australian Government printing its own currency interest free for public works projects.

If this can be done back in 1927 without a problem, then is it not reasonable to suggest the same thing could happen now also without problems?

Are you happy that a 1/3 of your tax dollars goes to paying back interest on foreign loans?

Wouldn’t you be more content seeing that money going into building better infrastructure in Australia, or as a last resort, just being able to save that money?


Things have changed a "little", since 1927, although there may still be some similarities, shortly!

As I have said before, it's all about perceptions!

We and what we sell are only worth what people perceive we are worth, in $ terms, particularly now that we have a floating currency exchange rate.

If we or anyone else, simply starts churning out paper $'s, like there is no tomorrow, then there will be no tomorrow for our little Aussie $.

The bottom would fall out of our little Aussie $, as it has previously for other countries that tried the approach.

If we tried to go down the printing press line, the effects on what we buy & sell overseas would be enormous.

I doubt you will find the RBA or either of the major Political party's would be interested!

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Bobby.
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #112 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 2:12pm
 
Come on Perceptions.
Stop using bold on your entire post.
Save it for one sentence at most.
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culldav
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Re: Still borrowing $100 million per day?
Reply #113 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 11:28pm
 
preceptions_now

I have not advocated that Australia should be printing its own currency for everything, just for public projects.

I agree things in Australia have changed since 1927. Just like the foreign owned Federal Reserve Bank took over the banknote issuing authority, when the Reserve Bank Act 1959 removed the central banking functions from the Commonwealth Bank in 1960.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_bank
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