Australian Politics Forum - The death of democracy in Australia

mellie

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The death of democracy in Australia
Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:53pm

http://vtr.aec.gov.au/

(Note, Liberal are still in front, so democracy cant be entirely dead yet, I believe there's still hope, if our ignorants will only open their eyes.)

I bought a few books yesterday, one which is pointless recommending to you really because I doubt any of you will be able to obtain a copy of it. Well, if you can, it's called...

Democracy and Treason in Australia by Alan Gourley

It was written in 1987, and just how accurate he was in so may ways.

It explains everything.

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culldav

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #1 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:13pm

I hope you are not suggesting that democracy in Australia is only present under a Liberal Party Governance.

Considering 85% of Australians were/are against the war in Iraq & Afghanistan; that might say something about Howard perceived democracy.

I only reason why Australian military went to Iraq, is because Bush-baby told us too. Plus bush-baby lured the donkey Howard with the FTA, which turned out to be beneficial to the USA, but really not to Australia’s benefit.

No Australian political party can really offer Australians democracy, because we don’t know who the puppet-masters are behind the scenes.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #2 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:16pm

Being someone who did not vote in this election and therefore holding no particular bias to any side or party - I would add that should a Government form on the basis of the whims of a couple of independents representing a tiny portion of the people - it will indeed be a shambles of a democracy.

I would like to see a re-run of an election of voluntary voting of first-past-the-post - whoever gains a majority from that, should govern.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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mellie

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #3 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:27pm

culldav wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:13pm:

I hope you are not suggesting that democracy in Australia is only present under a Liberal Party Governance.

Considering 85% of Australians were/are against the war in Iraq & Afghanistan; that might say something about Howard perceived democracy.

I only reason why Australian military went to Iraq, is because Bush-baby told us too. Plus bush-baby lured the donkey Howard with the FTA, which turned out to be beneficial to the USA, but really not to Australia’s benefit.

No Australian political party can really offer Australians democracy, because we don’t know who the puppet-masters are behind the scenes.

This current Labor government are covert communists, are doing everything in their power to deny Australians of their most fundamental of basic human and democratic rights, are about to make further changes to our constitution that are unlawful and constitute as treason.

You are told we are becoming 'independent',(building towards a republic) when in fact, dismantling your constitutional rights, the very rights which secure our nations sovereignty and your 'the peoples' right to vote on certain changes by means of referendum is being undermined, tampered with...abolished!

This book delves into the preference voting system, and tells why it's fundamentally communistic, and no, Liberal aren't void of this process, though the new Labor party is particularly communistic due to it's Fabian influences, and principles.

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mellie

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #4 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:33pm

Quite simply, it's a people who uphold a nations democracy, not it's governments, though when you have governments unwilling to allow a people their say, or even right to vote on certain constitutional changes who set about controlling the media the way they currently are, this is far from ethical, and or even lawful with respects to our constitutional rights as Australian citizens.

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mellie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8142 Sydney Gender:	Re: The death of democracy in Australia Reply #5 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:37pm Another book I bought yesterday was .. Moore's 2000 book, "Stupid White Men," of which is one more chapter in the Gospel According to Michael. Its very title reveals the core of Moore's appeal in this narcissistic age. Another worthwhile read.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #6 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:40pm

Mellie, I think I am going to get the book "My Journey" which is Tony Blair's memoirs.

He is the first person who almost got me to vote Labour in 1997.
In the end I backed the Conservatives in that election but he was the first 'third way' politician who caused Labour to remove their old socialist values and become electable again.

Rudd's Labor aped what Blair did to success.

I think it'll be a good read.

Though he somebody chucked eggs at him yesterday at a book signing and some crackpot tried to make a 'citizen's arrest'!!

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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mellie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8142 Sydney Gender:	Re: The death of democracy in Australia Reply #7 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:44pm Tony was possibly the last true Labor-man. It's the 'new' Labor movement which is particularly dangerous, controlling... taking rights away from the ordinary-people, and delivering them to those with the means, desire to make changes to our constitution for their indulgent capitalistic purposes.
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Mnemonic

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #8 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:57pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:16pm:

Being someone who did not vote in this election and therefore holding no particular bias to any side or party - I would add that should a Government form on the basis of the whims of a couple of independents representing a tiny portion of the people - it will indeed be a shambles of a democracy.

The mandate and authority to choose the next government rightfully passed to the Independents because neither of the two major parties offered a compelling argument on why they should allowed to form government. Who else should be allowed to decide? Someone has to make the decision. The two major parties are part of the problem. That is why the decision should be made by them.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:16pm:

I would like to see a re-run of an election of voluntary voting of first-past-the-post - whoever gains a majority from that, should govern.

I would not support a voluntary voting system. It allows extremists to propel their agenda into government. Religious fundamentalists like those in the U.S. would flood the stream of votes with their self-righteous and supremacist agenda. The Christian Bible Belt of Australia would be even bigger now if we had a voluntary voting system. Hatred of homosexuals would be stronger and more intense and there would be more racism. Religious fundamentalists and ethnic separatists would shout louder and louder. Success in elections would reinforce the zeal and fanaticism with which the extremists push their agenda.

Australia's compulsory voting system was designed by the British to stop this from happening. The following link is to a page that describes how the system works.

http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/politics.htm

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #9 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:02pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:57pm:

I would not support a voluntary voting system. It allows extremists to propel their agenda into government. Religious fundamentalists like those in the U.S. would flood the stream of votes with their self-righteous and supremacist agenda.

You do realise the United States is only ONE country that has voluntary voting?

How about Germany, Britain, France, Canada, Ireland, Holland, need I go on?

Every other developed significant country in the world have voluntary voting.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Mnemonic

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #10 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:18pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:02pm:

You do realise the United States is only ONE country that has voluntary voting?

How about Germany, Britain, France, Canada, Ireland, Holland, need I go on?

Every other developed significant country in the world have voluntary voting.

Yes, I do. The question is, how are these other countries better off than Australia? Do they not have problems? Why should Australia's electoral system be replaced with their's? I don't see any compelling reason to replace the current electoral system.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #11 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:20pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:18pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:02pm:

You do realise the United States is only ONE country that has voluntary voting?

How about Germany, Britain, France, Canada, Ireland, Holland, need I go on?

Every other developed significant country in the world have voluntary voting.

Yes, I do. The question is, how are these other countries better off than Australia? Do they not have problems? Why should Australia's electoral system be replaced with their's? I don't see any compelling reason to replace the current electoral system.

I didn't say they were better off.

I was shooting down your argument that voluntary voting causes lunatic fringes to take hold of the system but giving you countless examples of countries with stable democracies.

I like the idea of people only voting if they choose to.

Forcing people to go to the polls is all a bit Mugabe for my liking.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #12 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:20pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:18pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:02pm:

You do realise the United States is only ONE country that has voluntary voting?

How about Germany, Britain, France, Canada, Ireland, Holland, need I go on?

Every other developed significant country in the world have voluntary voting.

Yes, I do. The question is, how are these other countries better off than Australia? Do they not have problems? Why should Australia's electoral system be replaced with their's? I don't see any compelling reason to replace the current electoral system.

I didn't say they were better off.

I was shooting down your argument that voluntary voting causes lunatic fringes to take hold of the system by giving you countless examples of countries with stable democracies.

I like the idea of people only voting if they choose to.

Forcing people to go to the polls is all a bit Mugabe for my liking.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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longweekend58

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #13 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:25pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:20pm:

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:18pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:02pm:

You do realise the United States is only ONE country that has voluntary voting?

How about Germany, Britain, France, Canada, Ireland, Holland, need I go on?

Every other developed significant country in the world have voluntary voting.

Yes, I do. The question is, how are these other countries better off than Australia? Do they not have problems? Why should Australia's electoral system be replaced with their's? I don't see any compelling reason to replace the current electoral system.

I didn't say they were better off.

I was shooting down your argument that voluntary voting causes lunatic fringes to take hold of the system but giving you countless examples of countries with stable democracies.

I like the idea of people only voting if they choose to.

Forcing people to go to the polls is all a bit Mugabe for my liking.

I used to agree with you but I've changed my mind. The US' voluntary voting system leads to a distortion of democracy by actively disenfranchising some minorities and allowing parties to actively enrol voters in seats likely to support them. Thats not good at all for genuine democracy. But if the price of democracy and freedom is the obligation to spend 1 hour every 3 years in a voting booth then I believe it to be extraordinary value!

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The death of democracy in Australia
Reply #14 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:29pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:25pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:20pm:

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:18pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:02pm:

You do realise the United States is only ONE country that has voluntary voting?

How about Germany, Britain, France, Canada, Ireland, Holland, need I go on?

Every other developed significant country in the world have voluntary voting.

Yes, I do. The question is, how are these other countries better off than Australia? Do they not have problems? Why should Australia's electoral system be replaced with their's? I don't see any compelling reason to replace the current electoral system.

I didn't say they were better off.

I was shooting down your argument that voluntary voting causes lunatic fringes to take hold of the system but giving you countless examples of countries with stable democracies.

I like the idea of people only voting if they choose to.

Forcing people to go to the polls is all a bit Mugabe for my liking.

I used to agree with you but I've changed my mind. The US' voluntary voting system leads to a distortion of democracy by actively disenfranchising some minorities and allowing parties to actively enrol voters in seats likely to support them. Thats not good at all for genuine democracy. But if the price of democracy and freedom is the obligation to spend 1 hour every 3 years in a voting booth then I believe it to be extraordinary value!

You're falling into the trap of the USA being the only country in the world argument.

The US system is screwed on numerous fronts, none of them to do with voluntary voting.

What about all of the countries I listed?
Stable, moderate democracies - all with voluntary voting.

Is Holland in the pocket of the lunatic left or right?
Is Britain not a stable democracy?

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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