Australian Politics Forum - Which policies will not get off the ground??

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #75 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:20pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:00pm:

...
Quote:

Your comparison with a railway network looks a little silly if the govt had bulit an entirely new railtway network to overcome the shortfalls in the original one. they took the proper and responsible course and fixed the old one instead of building a brand new one.

I believe we are upgrading the network not building a whole new one.
I maybe wrong I'm not a "tech head" Grin

The proposal is to replace all, or nearly all, of the existing copper with fibre. Existing network infrastructure that's suitable will be incorporated into the NBN. I think the election interrupted the signing of an agreement with Telstra, but the other telco's are on board. To the best of my knowledge.

Quote:

I'm more concerned with Conroy's censorship Angry

First, we need the infrastructure. The censorship thing is a reminder that we're really only getting the best of an abysmal choice. If "best" is an appropriate term.
Quote:

With your premiss the old nokia brick was enough and all the improvements to mobiles are a waste.

Steam's the way of the future. We don't need these new-fangled sealed roads. Railroads; build more railroads!

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longweekend58

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #76 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:28pm

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:57pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:26pm:

...
If the BER has been run by a private company only half of the money would have been wasted ...

So you acknowledge that a private company couldn't have avoided waste under the circumstances. That's unusually honest for around here.

Could any single company have handled the workload? Could they have delivered in the timeframe?

no company can avoid waste. this isnt an either/or question. its ia relative one. even an incompetent and inefficient private company would not produce the levels of waste the govt did with the BER.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #77 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:36pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:00pm:

Quote:

and if u remember your history you will recall that the state governments each chose a different rail guage and the result was a mess. are you sure you want to compare the two???

Yet another great argument for getting rid of these waste of money layer of government.
And the network being built by the feds not the idiot states.

Quote:

Your comparison with a railway network looks a little silly if the govt had bulit an entirely new railtway network to overcome the shortfalls in the original one. they took the proper and responsible course and fixed the old one instead of building a brand new one.

I believe we are upgrading the network not building a whole new one.
I maybe wrong I'm not a "tech head" Grin

I'm more concerned with Conroy's censorship Angry

With your premiss the old nokia brick was enough and all the improvements to mobiles are a waste.

Once again you are failing to understand the core of my issues. is fiber to the home superior? yes. is it exciting and wonderful and amazing? yes will my downloads of pirate movies and tv shows come down a lot faster? absolutely. Do i want it? sure do!

can we afford it? NO.

The Bugatti Veyron is a vastly superior car than mine in absolutely every way. and i want one - very bad. but the reality is it wont go any faster than my current car because there is virtually nowhere to take it. and then there is the problem that i cant afford it - ever.

THATS MY POINT.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Which policies will not get off the ground?? Reply #78 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:40pm longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:36pm: ... can we afford it? NO. ... Intelligent and knowledgeable people, with access to far better information than you or I, say otherwise.
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qikvtec

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #79 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:02pm

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:00pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:56pm:

If publicly funded programs do not pass economic viability and profitability tests that private companies enact - then they should not proceed.

There is a reason private companies stay afloat and a reason why so many public Government funded schemes fall flat - because they don't treat it the same.

The Government assumes it would be a bottomless pit of our money - which is wrong.

Trust a right whinger, to reduce all socio-economic factors down to dollars and no common sense...

You can fix anything with a big bucket of money Thy.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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qikvtec

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #80 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:04pm

mozzaok wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:23pm:

Quote:

At last estimate the cost of the NBN was $47b

WHY LIE???

Are you afraid the truth will be insufficient to support your opinions?

"Fibre to 90 per cent of premises: $26.6 billion

Last 10 per cent of premises: $5.3 billion
Backhaul (connecting networks together): $3.3 billion
Overhead: $2 billion
Out tuning (with 2.5 per cent inflation): $5.6 billion

Total: $42.8 billion"

Now another lie the opposition has been pushing hard on, and all the whiners swallowed hook line and sinker is the government is pouring 43billion in.
WRONG!!!

The government investment is 27 billion, the rest comes from private investment.

So it is a big investment in our country, and in our future, so is it worth it??

The Drum on the ABC has a comprehensive article that lays out all the salient facts and does not take political sides, so check it out for yourself, here;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/20/2989172.htm

So I will leave you with this quote from that article, it sums up pretty well the Opposition alternative.

"Then there's the alternative. Opponents to slam the Government's proposal for being drawn up on the back of a napkin. Well if the $25 million implementation study represents a napkin it's tricky to say what the $6 billion alternative scheme was drawn up on. Pouring $6 billion into a rotting copper network and virtually-unfeasible wireless network to achieve peak speeds that the Japanese were rolling out nine years ago is a rather depressing vision of Australia's technological future. As a value proposition, you be the judge."

Excuse my error, we would essentially be splitting hairs there. Happy enough to call it $43b?

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #81 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:09pm

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:02pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:00pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:56pm:

If publicly funded programs do not pass economic viability and profitability tests that private companies enact - then they should not proceed.

There is a reason private companies stay afloat and a reason why so many public Government funded schemes fall flat - because they don't treat it the same.

The Government assumes it would be a bottomless pit of our money - which is wrong.

Trust a right whinger, to reduce all socio-economic factors down to dollars and no common sense...

You can fix anything with a big bucket of money Thy.

Yep look at our NHS in Britain.

Billions upon billions upon billions of pounds and what does it look like still?
A whole heap of shyte.

Socialism - throw more and more money at a problem and don't worry about profitability or economic viability, that's not our style.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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qikvtec

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #82 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:10pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:28pm:

mozzaok wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:23pm:

Quote:

At last estimate the cost of the NBN was $47b

WHY LIE???

Are you afraid the truth will be insufficient to support your opinions?

"Fibre to 90 per cent of premises: $26.6 billion

Last 10 per cent of premises: $5.3 billion
Backhaul (connecting networks together): $3.3 billion
Overhead: $2 billion
Out tuning (with 2.5 per cent inflation): $5.6 billion

Total: $42.8 billion"

Now another lie the opposition has been pushing hard on, and all the whiners swallowed hook line and sinker is the government is pouring 43billion in.
WRONG!!!

The government investment is 27 billion, the rest comes from private investment.

So it is a big investment in our country, and in our future, so is it worth it??

The Drum on the ABC has a comprehensive article that lays out all the salient facts and does not take political sides, so check it out for yourself, here;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/20/2989172.htm

So I will leave you with this quote from that article, it sums up pretty well the Opposition alternative.

"Then there's the alternative. Opponents to slam the Government's proposal for being drawn up on the back of a napkin. Well if the $25 million implementation study represents a napkin it's tricky to say what the $6 billion alternative scheme was drawn up on. Pouring $6 billion into a rotting copper network and virtually-unfeasible wireless network to achieve peak speeds that the Japanese were rolling out nine years ago is a rather depressing vision of Australia's technological future. As a value proposition, you be the judge."

Just watching the Insiders now and a great point on the cost of the NBN was that back in the day the railways were a massive investment at the time.
A nice comparision I thought,

anyone want to dispute that the rail network was a waste?

Absolutely. How many different gauges did Australia have as a consequence of states not been able to agree on the standard?

Colossal stuff up and considerable waste of money.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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longweekend58

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #83 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:32pm

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:36pm:

...
can we afford it? NO.
...

Intelligent and knowledgeable people, with access to far better information than you or I, say otherwise.

actually they dont at all. Industry is generally unconvinced unless they ahve been provided with a large segment of the pie in whcih case they are enthusiastic (of course). Treasury - that monument to failed predictions and faulty modelling - hasnt even bothered to model the cost. But somewhere deep inside you, where your integrity lies buried deep within you partisan soul, havent even YOU asked why when our hospitals are failing, our river network in historical distress and our education system suffering that we chose the BIGGEST EXPENSE in our history on the internet?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #84 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:33pm

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:02pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:00pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:56pm:

If publicly funded programs do not pass economic viability and profitability tests that private companies enact - then they should not proceed.

There is a reason private companies stay afloat and a reason why so many public Government funded schemes fall flat - because they don't treat it the same.

The Government assumes it would be a bottomless pit of our money - which is wrong.

Trust a right whinger, to reduce all socio-economic factors down to dollars and no common sense...

You can fix anything with a big bucket of money Thy.

Absolutely!!! just ask Greece....

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #85 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:36pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:33pm:

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:02pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:00pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:56pm:

If publicly funded programs do not pass economic viability and profitability tests that private companies enact - then they should not proceed.

There is a reason private companies stay afloat and a reason why so many public Government funded schemes fall flat - because they don't treat it the same.

The Government assumes it would be a bottomless pit of our money - which is wrong.

Trust a right whinger, to reduce all socio-economic factors down to dollars and no common sense...

You can fix anything with a big bucket of money Thy.

Absolutely!!! just ask Greece....

I wonder if Greece sent a thank you card to Berlin?

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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longweekend58

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #86 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:37pm

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:10pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:28pm:

mozzaok wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:23pm:

Quote:

At last estimate the cost of the NBN was $47b

WHY LIE???

Are you afraid the truth will be insufficient to support your opinions?

"Fibre to 90 per cent of premises: $26.6 billion

Last 10 per cent of premises: $5.3 billion
Backhaul (connecting networks together): $3.3 billion
Overhead: $2 billion
Out tuning (with 2.5 per cent inflation): $5.6 billion

Total: $42.8 billion"

Now another lie the opposition has been pushing hard on, and all the whiners swallowed hook line and sinker is the government is pouring 43billion in.
WRONG!!!

The government investment is 27 billion, the rest comes from private investment.

So it is a big investment in our country, and in our future, so is it worth it??

The Drum on the ABC has a comprehensive article that lays out all the salient facts and does not take political sides, so check it out for yourself, here;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/20/2989172.htm

So I will leave you with this quote from that article, it sums up pretty well the Opposition alternative.

"Then there's the alternative. Opponents to slam the Government's proposal for being drawn up on the back of a napkin. Well if the $25 million implementation study represents a napkin it's tricky to say what the $6 billion alternative scheme was drawn up on. Pouring $6 billion into a rotting copper network and virtually-unfeasible wireless network to achieve peak speeds that the Japanese were rolling out nine years ago is a rather depressing vision of Australia's technological future. As a value proposition, you be the judge."

Just watching the Insiders now and a great point on the cost of the NBN was that back in the day the railways were a massive investment at the time.
A nice comparision I thought,

anyone want to dispute that the rail network was a waste?

Absolutely. How many different gauges did Australia have as a consequence of states not been able to agree on the standard?

Colossal stuff up and considerable waste of money.

The best example I can use is the bridge over the river murray at Yarrawonga. two state govts were involved and both started their ends of the bridge... AT DIFFERENT locations and different elevations. This stupid bridge now has an odd bend to compensate for the fact that this was not only a govt project but a TWO GOVT project. two layters of arrogance and incompetence trying to (literally) meet in the middle and missing by a very large margin.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #87 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:39pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:33pm:

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:02pm:

Equitist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:00pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:56pm:

If publicly funded programs do not pass economic viability and profitability tests that private companies enact - then they should not proceed.

There is a reason private companies stay afloat and a reason why so many public Government funded schemes fall flat - because they don't treat it the same.

The Government assumes it would be a bottomless pit of our money - which is wrong.

Trust a right whinger, to reduce all socio-economic factors down to dollars and no common sense...

You can fix anything with a big bucket of money Thy.

Absolutely!!! just ask Greece....

I wonder if Greece sent a thank you card to Berlin?

Greece got a little upset because the Germans unfairly demanded that the Greeks increase their pension age from 57 to 67 - liek Germany.

tough.

Socialism... grand ideas wrapped up in arrogance and delivered with incompetence... at someone elses expense!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #88 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:42pm

Why we allowed Greece into the EU is still a mystery to me.

It's a beautiful country, I went there a lot as a kid but its a banana republic in everyway.
It has an absurd social system and expects Britain, Germany and the Netherlands to bail them out all the time.

Same with Portugal and Ireland.

Madness.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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longweekend58

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #89 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:46pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:42pm:

Why we allowed Greece into the EU is still a mystery to me.

It's a beautiful country, I went there a lot as a kid but its a banana republic in everyway.
It has an absurd social system and expects Britain, Germany and the Netherlands to bail them out all the time.

Same with Portugal and Ireland.

Madness.

They are lazy. pure and simple. businesses avoid tax as part of the national ethos. workers do so only on occasion and then expect to retire at 57.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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