Australian Politics Forum - Which policies will not get off the ground??

qikvtec

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #45 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:50pm

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:46pm:

bwood1946 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:54am:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:49am:

bwood1946 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:40am:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:52am:

Quote:

Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN.

No it won't.

So people will stop using their 'phones when fibre replaces copper? Read what I wrote. Traditional voice traffic will support the NBN. It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

How can commercial viability be nonsense ????????????????/

Sad

Ahh, a Market Fundamentalist. I realise that commercial viability is market capitalist dogma, but you worship false gods.

Commercial viability can be nonsense in the context of national infrastructure. Roads, for example, are not necessarily commercially viable. For evidence, research failed commercial road ventures. Nobody's suggesting that roads should not be built to remote communities, just because there's no money in it.

oversimplistic reply roads are not old technology by the time, this is laid out if it ever is completed it will be outmoded

. You only have to look at how big the countries is to get the point where not Singapore and South Korea were not the UK we are the size of the United States

that is only my opinion

Wink

Fibre is very basic infrastructure. It seems all shiny and new to most of us, but that's what people in the industry tell me.

Techniques for using fibre are advancing rapidly. Laser frequencies, modulation, keying and something called phase-shift have been mentioned, but the technicalities are frankly well beyond me.

Hence the tenfold increase in potential that drew the mirth of the opposition when announced. In context, that revelation was about as surprising as the realisation that a Ferrari can go faster than a model T Ford. Same infrastructure, different technology.

The potential life of the NBN is five decades or more. Nobody really knows the limits of what fibre can do and how long it will last.

By the time fibre is obsolete, http:// may have been replaced by bmus:// (Beam me up, Scotty) Wink

But I suspect we'll all be long dead by then.

Is the potential benefit worth the cost? I think it's worth a try. Others evidently differ.

The two critical drawbacks of Fibre are

1. It can't carry power
2. Very time consuming and expensive to repair when cut, and it will be regularly. Has everyone forgotten the very recent example when a fibre optic cable was cut on the QLD NSW border; created chaos for two days.

If an ISP can't deliver FO services to the home at a comparable cost to current ADSL services, no-one will sign up for it en-masse.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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#

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #46 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:56pm

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:50pm:

... If an ISP can't deliver FO services to the home at a comparable cost to current ADSL services, no-one will sign up for it en-masse.

The plan is to decommission the copper when premises are connected to fibre. The premises get the fibre and the occupants buy whatever services they want. There's no indication that more expensive services will be forced on anyone, but the occupants won't have the option of staying with what they had.

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bwood1946

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #47 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:59pm

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:56pm:

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:50pm:

... If an ISP can't deliver FO services to the home at a comparable cost to current ADSL services, no-one will sign up for it en-masse.

The plan is to decommission the copper when premises are connected to fibre. The premises get the fibre and the occupants buy whatever services they want. There's no indication that more expensive services will be forced on anyone, but the occupants won't have the option of staying with what they had.

but the occupants won't have the option of staying with what they had.

So cop it sweet or off to the Gulag

that Gillard way

Wink

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qikvtec

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #48 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:00pm

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:56pm:

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:50pm:

... If an ISP can't deliver FO services to the home at a comparable cost to current ADSL services, no-one will sign up for it en-masse.

The plan is to decommission the copper when premises are connected to fibre. The premises get the fibre and the occupants buy whatever services they want. There's no indication that more expensive services will be forced on anyone, but the occupants won't have the option of staying with what they had.

So wholesale increases in internet costs will be the norm then?

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Which policies will not get off the ground?? Reply #49 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:03pm qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:00pm: # wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:56pm: .... There's no indication that more expensive services will be forced on anyone ... So wholesale increases in internet costs will be the norm then?
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qikvtec

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #50 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:09pm

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:03pm:

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:00pm:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:56pm:

.... There's no indication that more expensive services will be forced on anyone ...

So wholesale increases in internet costs will be the norm then?

Assuming the ALP get in and the NBN goes ahead, then the investment will be recovered from the consumers. At last estimate the cost of the NBN was $47b; given labors propensity to underestimate cost and bungle policy implementation, plenty of evidence of that in the last 3 years alone, it would be reasonable to expect a significant cost blow out.

The cost will be passed on either directly via the ISP or via increased taxes; someone has to pay for it.

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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bwood1946

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #51 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:15pm

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:09pm:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:03pm:

qikvtec wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:00pm:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:56pm:

.... There's no indication that more expensive services will be forced on anyone ...

So wholesale increases in internet costs will be the norm then?

Assuming the ALP get in and the NBN goes ahead, then the investment will be recovered from the consumers. At last estimate the cost of the NBN was $47b; given labors propensity to underestimate cost and bungle policy implementation, plenty of evidence of that in the last 3 years alone, it would be reasonable to expect a significant cost blow out.

The cost will be passed on either directly via the ISP or via increased taxes; someone has to pay for it.

cost blowout of foregone conclusion that this Labor governments way i in compodent and inept

Cheesy

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Bobby.

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #52 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:25pm

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:52am:

Quote:

Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN.

No it won't.

So people will stop using their 'phones when fibre replaces copper? Read what I wrote. Traditional voice traffic will support the NBN. It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

Listen David know all.
If it was your money you wouldn't spend it.
Guess what - it is your money - tax money.
I don't want my money wasted on 1000s of kilometers of optic fiber
that is only being used by a few kids watching porno.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Which policies will not get off the ground?? Reply #53 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:26pm I agree with Bobby on this one. People should remember when these billions are wasted by the Government that it is OUR money that they are wasting.
Back to top	Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde IP Logged

# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Which policies will not get off the ground?? Reply #54 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:30pm Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:25pm: ... I don't want my money wasted on 1000s of kilometers of optic fiber that is only being used by a few kids watching porno. Just because that's your main use for the 'net, don't assume the same of everyone.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #55 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:42pm

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:30pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:25pm:

...
I don't want my money wasted on 1000s of kilometers of optic fiber
that is only being used by a few kids watching porno.

Just because that's your main use for the 'net, don't assume the same of everyone.

Sorry but the infrastructure plans for a country the size of Australia do not pass an economic test.

If this were a plan for a private company it needs to pass key benchmarks on viability, cost-benefits in quantitative terms and obsolesence - it fails nearly all of them.

Waste of money.
Remember they have already plunged us into debt as it is.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Equitist

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #56 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:53pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:42pm:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:30pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:25pm:

...
I don't want my money wasted on 1000s of kilometers of optic fiber
that is only being used by a few kids watching porno.

Just because that's your main use for the 'net, don't assume the same of everyone.

Sorry but the infrastructure plans for a country the size of Australia do not pass an economic test.

If this were a plan for a private company it needs to pass key benchmarks on viability, cost-benefits in quantitative terms and obsolesence - it fails nearly all of them.

Waste of money.
Remember they have already plunged us into debt as it is.

Australia is a vast continent, with a relatively small and ubiquitous population.

The fair provision of accessible essential public services and infrastructure are not really conducive to highly profitable economies of scale!

Hence, the private sector has been unwilling and/or unable to deliver anywhere near adequate and affordable high-tech telecommunications services outside major metropolitan areas!

Clearly, the private sector has already failed all objective socio-economic tests and benchmarks on this!

This should have been obvious, as far back as when the dogmatic Libs recklessly hocked Telstra (or part thereof - and definitely the wrong parts thereof)...

So, we are back to a predictable situation, where: the private sector is expecting to be subsidised with more Corporate WEALTHfare!

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #57 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:56pm

If publicly funded programs do not pass economic viability and profitability tests that private companies enact - then they should not proceed.

There is a reason private companies stay afloat and a reason why so many public Government funded schemes fall flat - because they don't treat it the same.

The Government assumes it would be a bottomless pit of our money - which is wrong.

If that BER program had been a program at any of the multi-nationals I have worked for, Julia Gillard as head of it would have been fired immediately.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Equitist

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #58 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:00pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 2:56pm:

If publicly funded programs do not pass economic viability and profitability tests that private companies enact - then they should not proceed.

There is a reason private companies stay afloat and a reason why so many public Government funded schemes fall flat - because they don't treat it the same.

The Government assumes it would be a bottomless pit of our money - which is wrong.

Trust a right whinger, to reduce all socio-economic factors down to dollars and no common sense...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #59 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 3:01pm

Classic comparison -

The Government's BER and botched pink batts scheme wastes billions of taxpayers money. Builds gyms for schools that want a library and a library for schools that want a gym.
The head of Julia Gillard becomes Prime Minister and asks the country for a second chance and says what a terrific job they have done??

Where I work we rolled out a 2 year plan to build refinery plants in South Asia to cut down supply chain costs, freight, increase headcount net value etc.

The program recently went into production - 20% OVER budget, and 3 months behind original plans.
An email comes out not so long back with the news that the Senior VP of Global Supply Chain (and head of the project) would be 'leaving the company with immediate effect'.

That's the difference and that is why Government's waste so much of our money.

No accountability.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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