Australian Politics Forum - Which policies will not get off the ground??

aussiefree2ride

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #30 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:43am

mantra wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:28am:

Quote:

The point is, do you have a limit of how much you want to handicap the hardest workers, and the best qualified people? Or do you want to drag the rewards for effort down to the point where a garbage collector is the pinacle of Australian achievement? Or do you want to suck the blood out of employers to the (not too distant) point where it`s inviable to opperate in Australia?

Is there an end to the greed of the laziest?

Do you really believe blue collar workers or the unskilled are lazy? Sometimes that is the only option for them depending on their upbringing and education standards.

Shop assistants, cashiers and the like are on their feet for 8 hours a day and if you've bothered to shop at your local supermarket - you can see how physically hard this is - not to mention monotonous. These are the women who will have to return to work after having a child because they don't have a financial choice.

Those on a high income return to work because they usually want to - but they have a choice. $75,000 tax free often means they can afford to take more time off than someone who receives only $20,000.

Welfare in this country has become ridiculous and out of control. As some of the others have stated before - it should only be for the most needy - not the most greedy.

Mantra, how could you miss such an obvious point?

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Dnarever

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #31 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:52am

I think that if the Liberals form a minority government then the Maternity leave would be likely to go ahead.

I feel that it would have had no chance if the Liberals had won outright because the Liberal Business group owned machine would have never been allowed to introduce their big new tax to pay for it. The Tax would be passed on to consumers and we would all end up paying for this policy.

In the case where the independents have a significant hold there is no way that the Liberals could get away with not introducing this policy in a minority government.

The big problem I see with a minority government of either persuasion is the impact it will have on returning to surplus - the additional projects that the independents are putting into the system will impact on our financial recovery.

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aussiefree2ride

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #32 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 9:01am

Dnarever wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:52am:

I think that if the Liberals form a minority government then the Maternity leave would be likely to go ahead.

I feel that it would have had no chance if the Liberals had won outright because the Liberal Business group owned machine would have never been allowed to introduce their big new tax to pay for it. The Tax would be passed on to consumers and we would all end up paying for this policy.

In the case where the independents have a significant hold there is no way that the Liberals could get away with not introducing this policy in a minority government.

The big problem I see with a minority government of either persuasion is the impact it will have on returning to surplus - the additional projects that the independents are putting into the system will impact on our financial recovery.

Of course the tax, or cost would be passed on to consumers. How else could it be? Just a step closer to the State owned Generations.

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #33 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:23am

aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 9:01am:

...
Of course the tax, or cost would be passed on to consumers. How else could it be?...

Well, if the tax is imposed where the capacity to increase prices is constrained. Say, where the taxed operate in an international market, then the cost would have to come from their profits.

Sounds like a very good argument for a resources super profits tax to me.

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Bobby.

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #34 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:30am

I think the NBN will fizzle out when people just won't pay the large
cost to get connected.
Optic fiber is expensive to lay in areas where there are too few customers.
I can't see it as a viable business model except in big cities.

Imagine laying out 100 kilometers of optic fiber to a small town
with say 20 customers?
How long would it take to get the money back & how
much would they be charged?

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #35 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:39am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:30am:

I think the NBN will fizzle out when people just won't pay the large cost to get connected.
...

The plan is to decommission the copper, where fibre is connected to the premises. Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN. There are nation-building justifications for subsidising - or not even charging for - some traffic.

National infrastructure is not necessarily commercially viable. The number of failed commercial road projects is evidence of that. Yet nobody pretends that roads should not be built.

People who impose commercial criteria on national infrastructure simply haven't a clue.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 110869 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Which policies will not get off the ground?? Reply #36 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:52am Quote: Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN. No it won't.
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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #37 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:37am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:52am:

Quote:

Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN.

No it won't.

So people will stop using their 'phones when fibre replaces copper? Read what I wrote. Traditional voice traffic will support the NBN. It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

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bwood1946

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #38 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:40am

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:52am:

Quote:

Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN.

No it won't.

So people will stop using their 'phones when fibre replaces copper? Read what I wrote. Traditional voice traffic will support the NBN. It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

How can commercial viability be nonsense ????????????????/

Sad

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #39 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:49am

bwood1946 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:40am:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:52am:

Quote:

Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN.

No it won't.

So people will stop using their 'phones when fibre replaces copper? Read what I wrote. Traditional voice traffic will support the NBN. It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

How can commercial viability be nonsense ????????????????/

Sad

Ahh, a Market Fundamentalist. I realise that commercial viability is market capitalist dogma, but you worship false gods.

Commercial viability can be nonsense in the context of national infrastructure. Roads, for example, are not necessarily commercially viable. For evidence, research failed commercial road ventures. Nobody's suggesting that roads should not be built to remote communities, just because there's no money in it.

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bwood1946

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #40 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:54am

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:49am:

bwood1946 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:40am:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:52am:

Quote:

Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN.

No it won't.

So people will stop using their 'phones when fibre replaces copper? Read what I wrote. Traditional voice traffic will support the NBN. It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

How can commercial viability be nonsense ????????????????/

Sad

Ahh, a Market Fundamentalist. I realise that commercial viability is market capitalist dogma, but you worship false gods.

Commercial viability can be nonsense in the context of national infrastructure. Roads, for example, are not necessarily commercially viable. For evidence, research failed commercial road ventures. Nobody's suggesting that roads should not be built to remote communities, just because there's no money in it.

oversimplistic reply roads are not old technology by the time, this is laid out if it ever is completed it will be outmoded

. You only have to look at how big the countries is to get the point where not Singapore and South Korea were not the UK we are the size of the United States

that is only my opinion

Wink

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #41 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:16pm

John S wrote on Sep 4^th, 2010 at 8:55pm:

on yahoo Andei you said that you got paid through you company in The Channel Island, so you would never be an Australia PAYE.

You also said that you have a blue with the Australia Tax Office. Was that because you weren't paying tax in Australia on your income?

Not that it is related to any of this but I'll answer that.
In 2007, which is when I was talking about I was a PAYE employee.
For 2008 & 2009 I was on a finite contract to re-structure a division.

It was this redundancy payment relating to a finite contract that caused the ATO issue. They queried whether I should have been paid a redundancy but rather a contract closing payment, which obviously have vastly different tax consquences. Had that occurred I would have owed them over A$50,000.

Anyway back to the original points.
The maternity scheme of Abbott's makes sense to me.
If people are going to take time out to have families, then we want to encourage that. We don't want to penalise higher earners and possibly cause them to not have children.
It is of course the middle and higher incomes we want to be having children rather than the poorer end of town.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Equitist

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #42 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:23pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:16pm:

It is of course the middle and higher incomes we want to be having children rather than the poorer end of town.

I'm sure that, in your dotage, you'll want a better class of servant bathing you, spoon-feeding you and wiping your snooty nose and backside - even if they think such is beneath them, eh!?

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #43 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:26pm

I was thinking in regards to the national interest.

We want people having children that can -

1) Pay for their education
2) Pay for their healthcare
3) Have such children attain skillsets we badly lack in Australia

No compare that with the crap people, the people who can't afford any of the above, the kids who drop out of school because their parents couldn't give a toss....

See which is better for Australia??

Nah, you probably don't. Still blinded by a hatred of people who have got on in life.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Re: Which policies will not get off the ground??
Reply #44 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 1:46pm

bwood1946 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:54am:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:49am:

bwood1946 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:40am:

# wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 10:52am:

Quote:

Traditional voice traffic alone will support the NBN.

No it won't.

So people will stop using their 'phones when fibre replaces copper? Read what I wrote. Traditional voice traffic will support the NBN. It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

It won't necessarily satisfy any commercial viability nonsense.

How can commercial viability be nonsense ????????????????/

Sad

Ahh, a Market Fundamentalist. I realise that commercial viability is market capitalist dogma, but you worship false gods.

Commercial viability can be nonsense in the context of national infrastructure. Roads, for example, are not necessarily commercially viable. For evidence, research failed commercial road ventures. Nobody's suggesting that roads should not be built to remote communities, just because there's no money in it.

oversimplistic reply roads are not old technology by the time, this is laid out if it ever is completed it will be outmoded

. You only have to look at how big the countries is to get the point where not Singapore and South Korea were not the UK we are the size of the United States

that is only my opinion

Wink

Fibre is very basic infrastructure. It seems all shiny and new to most of us, but that's what people in the industry tell me.

Techniques for using fibre are advancing rapidly. Laser frequencies, modulation, keying and something called phase-shift have been mentioned, but the technicalities are frankly well beyond me.

Hence the tenfold increase in potential that drew the mirth of the opposition when announced. In context, that revelation was about as surprising as the realisation that a Ferrari can go faster than a model T Ford. Same infrastructure, different technology.

The potential life of the NBN is five decades or more. Nobody really knows the limits of what fibre can do and how long it will last.

By the time fibre is obsolete, http:// may have been replaced by bmus:// (Beam me up, Scotty) Wink

But I suspect we'll all be long dead by then.

Is the potential benefit worth the cost? I think it's worth a try. Others evidently differ.

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