aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:38pm:

A delusion of grandeur, of the kind that often drives ethnic Europeans to make fools of themselves when they visit Europe... Raving on about history in an unEuropean way, which in the end turns out to be not from a love for Europe and Europeans but rather from an obsession with power.

Comment on the Vote tally.

I find it interesting that this vote somewhat mirrors the original debate results.

when you add it all up it is about 50 - 50 but when you look into it about half confidently want to keep what we have and the other 50% want a change but can not make up their collective mind about exactly what result they want.


This is the reason that when the republicans now talk about having another attempt they strongly argue for a process which would rig the result, they are not interested in a fair process.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:29pm:


That's a rather judgmental attitude to have toward the natives isn't it? I'm not sure if it's right to criticise and do nothing to help them or to be an agent/catalyst in a process of reform.

If you want to talk about being wasteful, it depends on what criteria you use to judge what is a proper, rational and appropriate lifestyle and what would qualify as a "non-waste" of one's life.

A Western society has the benefit of science and technology -- in the form of machines, equipment and capital goods that enable us to extract and acquire energy and resources to improve, increase or maximise our quality of life. Australia has one of the highest carbon emission and energy consumption rates per capita in the world. This rate of energy and resource usage is held up in an effort to maintain economic activity, done for the purpose of maximising profits. This may not seem like a problem when we live in relative comfort and when relative demand in developing countries is still not high enough to compete with our's. If developing countries had more money to buy the world's resources we wouldn't be able to use as much energy as we did now. We are living in relative comfort.

The world either reached peak oil several years ago, or is no longer able to keep up with demand. If the criterion for wastefulness is the rate of energy and resource usage, then I don't think the natives are as wasteful as the rest of us. The kind of lifestyle enabled by technology would be foreign to the traditional Aboriginal cultures.

Maybe the reason why they are doing so badly is because they are not wasteful enough.

aikmann4 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 4:38pm:


I'm not sure which is more offensive, conquering or being conquered.

Having an aboriginal flag isn't necessarily offensive. If you focus on their supposed "failings" it may well seem repulsive. But most people, especially outsiders, don't know anything about these "failings." In a post-colonial culture, people tend to look negatively upon conquest as the strong imposing their pompous agenda on the weak. As ironic as it may seem, an aboriginal flag would be a statement of humility and the conquerors can take credit for their humility. Humility is an honourable virtue. The guests would be pleased.

I think today's aboriginals are caught between two worlds, the native culture and the new one enhanced by technological infrastructure. They are the one ancestry that receives less demands to assimilate because they are native. Their social problems are a result of an identity crisis. They're just not very good at being Western.

Not actually advocating our side, just a comment.

EDIT: I meant "either side" not "our side" on the last line.

That tokenism worked well for Kevvy.

He pissed off almost everyone but the latte sipping chattering classes.  Their backs got a jaunty clapping.

I don't mind the Union Jack in the corner of a flag but wouldn't have a sook if it disappeared. I certainly do not want to see anything like a kangaroo or any such thing. I think that the eureka flag is also a excellent option for a national flag.

I cannot stand the Aboriginal flag but for me it is more about the colours than the design, although even the design doesn't inspire me. So collectively I do not like it. For me keeping the deep blue and the Southern Cross are essential.

Personally I think the US flag is actually the best looking flag in the world. And not crediting the things done under them, but German flags of WW2 are also very cool. The European Union flag also very appealing.

We should become a Republic if there is a corresponding advantage for the citizens of Australia and I would not say no to a new flag if I liked the design and it had dignity.

I didn'y vote as none of the options suit me.

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 4:19pm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_flags

List of Australian flags - note: some of these are not official flags of Australia but many are or were.

.

Funny how the republicans get hung up on the insignificant things like flags.

There is plenty of ways we could improve our democracy through reform. A new flag or a new label won't do anything.