Australian Politics Forum - Same-sex adoption

gizmo_2655

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #60 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:56pm

... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:47pm:

mellie wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:40pm:

The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

No, you cant legislate human attitudes, but you can do your best to place children in an environment which doesn't serve to stigmatise, effect them further.

This should be about kids first, not the rights of straight/gay others.

Oh come on mellie....there is NO fundamental biological right to have parents of different genders....

I'm not sure 'right' is the correct term, but I guess It's impossible for anyone other than a man and a women to produce children for a reason....

Tell mellie that, it's his/her term...

And it's 'impossible' for some hetero couples to have children too.....THAT is the whole point to adoption...

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Bobbythebat

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mellie

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #61 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:00pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:54pm:

mellie wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:40pm:

The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

No, you cant legislate human attitudes, but you can do your best to place children in an environment which doesn't serve to stigmatise, effect them further.

This should be about kids first, not the rights of straight/gay others.

And IF it's about the kids first......then there is NO reason to bring sexual preference into the discussion..

It should be about WHO can care for the child best....NOT what the parents preference is...

If a person who's attacted to farm animals is the 'best person' to care for the child....then they are THE best person to raise the child.....

The only restriction should be against a person who's sexually attracted TO children.....and since most gays or heteros are NOT attracted to children....there should be no distinction...

Stability of the relationship, financial status and criminal history/emotional state should be the ONLY concerns.....

After all, it's about the child, not the parent...

I think it's clear, that in light of existing social prejudice, coupled with the fact that a current ALP government is itself openly opposed to gay marriage, much less gay adoption, they are yet to sort out their own views, prejudices before attempting to unleash anymore bills.

Roll Eyes

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #62 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:02pm The whole 'nuclear family unit' living in isolation thing, is a relatively modern and predominantly 'Western' economic construct - historically, humans lived in extended family groups in more collective communities...
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #63 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:02pm Well, If something should happen to my wife and I, I wouldn't want my children to go to a gay couple. Simple as that.
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mellie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8142 Sydney Gender:	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #64 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:02pm Does a stable government oppose gay-marriage in one breath, though attempt to legislate gay-adoption in another? Ask yourself this.
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mellie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8142 Sydney Gender:	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #65 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:04pm ... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:02pm: Well, If something should happen to my wife and I, I wouldn't want my children to go to a gay couple. Simple as that. Best put that in your will,...
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #66 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:07pm

... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:02pm:

Well, If something should happen to my wife and I, I wouldn't want my children to go to a gay couple.

Simple as that.

Why not??

Would you rather your kids went to a disfunctional family, where the husband spent all his time at the pub, talking footy...and the wife spent all her time on the couch, watching Jerry Springer and Oprah...

And the hubby came home at 9pm and slapped his wife around because the house work wasn't done and there was no dinner on the table.....and then the wife took out HER frustrations on the 'adopted' kids?????

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #67 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:08pm mellie wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:02pm: Does a stable government oppose gay-marriage in one breath, though attempt to legislate gay-adoption in another? Ask yourself this. Two different Governents...
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...

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #68 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:09pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:56pm:

... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:47pm:

mellie wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:40pm:

The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

No, you cant legislate human attitudes, but you can do your best to place children in an environment which doesn't serve to stigmatise, effect them further.

This should be about kids first, not the rights of straight/gay others.

Oh come on mellie....there is NO fundamental biological right to have parents of different genders....

I'm not sure 'right' is the correct term, but I guess It's impossible for anyone other than a man and a women to produce children for a reason....

Tell mellie that, it's his/her term...

And it's 'impossible' for some hetero couples to have children too.....THAT is the whole point to adoption...

NO, the whole point to adoption is to give a home to children without one....that's why people ahve been saying it's about the children. It just happens that infertile couples are the most willing, and suitable to provide this home, as everything is there, except for some physical defect which precludes them from conceiving naturally.
Of course, if gays were willing to admit that their sexuality is a defect, they might fit into this category....but they refuse....so tough.

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In the fullness of time...

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...

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #69 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:11pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:07pm:

... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:02pm:

Well, If something should happen to my wife and I, I wouldn't want my children to go to a gay couple.

Simple as that.

Why not??

Would you rather your kids went to a disfunctional family, where the husband spent all his time at the pub, talking footy...and the wife spent all her time on the couch, watching Jerry Springer and Oprah...

And the hubby came home at 9pm and slapped his wife around because the house work wasn't done and there was no dinner on the table.....and then the wife took out HER frustrations on the 'adopted' kids?????

Oh stop it. according to the artcile there are '30 or 40' children available for adoption in an average year.....you don't think there are 30 or 40 decent heterosexual couples out there?

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In the fullness of time...

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #70 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:32pm

... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:09pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:56pm:

... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:47pm:

mellie wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 3:40pm:

The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

No, you cant legislate human attitudes, but you can do your best to place children in an environment which doesn't serve to stigmatise, effect them further.

This should be about kids first, not the rights of straight/gay others.

Oh come on mellie....there is NO fundamental biological right to have parents of different genders....

I'm not sure 'right' is the correct term, but I guess It's impossible for anyone other than a man and a women to produce children for a reason....

Tell mellie that, it's his/her term...

And it's 'impossible' for some hetero couples to have children too.....THAT is the whole point to adoption...

NO, the whole point to adoption is to give a home to children without one....that's why people ahve been saying it's about the children. It just happens that infertile couples are the most willing, and suitable to provide this home, as everything is there, except for some physical defect which precludes them from conceiving naturally.
Of course, if gays were willing to admit that their sexuality is a defect, they might fit into this category....but they refuse....so tough.

Yes wesley...exactly...
The point to adoption is give homes to children who need a home....and since the idea is to find homes for the children....it doesn't matter whether the 'parents' have other children, or don't have children, or even CAN'T have children....

So why differentiate between 'can't have children' because the man or woman is sterile...and 'can't have children' because it's 2 men or 2 women???

Neither group (sterile hetero couple, or same-sex couple) can have kids of their own...so they are BOTH equally valid (after the usual checks) to adopt a child....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Yog

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #71 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:32pm

So, what happened in the New South Wales Parliament - today - on this issue?

Does NSW recognise same sex relationships yet? Can a person in a same sex relationship leave their property in their Will to their partner without having to fight the Courts?

Besides, there are very few babies up for adoption these days anyhow. Unmarried teenagers now (with the help of the Federal Government) raise them as single parents or their parents take on that role.

Where are all these adoptive babies coming from for same sex partners to adopt? Overseas?

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #72 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:36pm

... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:11pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:07pm:

... wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:02pm:

Well, If something should happen to my wife and I, I wouldn't want my children to go to a gay couple.

Simple as that.

Why not??

Would you rather your kids went to a disfunctional family, where the husband spent all his time at the pub, talking footy...and the wife spent all her time on the couch, watching Jerry Springer and Oprah...

And the hubby came home at 9pm and slapped his wife around because the house work wasn't done and there was no dinner on the table.....and then the wife took out HER frustrations on the 'adopted' kids?????

Oh stop it. according to the artcile there are '30 or 40' children available for adoption in an average year.....you don't think there are 30 or 40 decent heterosexual couples out there?

And??? isn't it better to have a pool of 60 or 80 decent couples to choose from, for the 30 or 40 children who need adoption, rather than just rely on '30 or 40 decent heterosexual couples'????

The bigger the pool of prospective parents...the better the chance of finding good homes for the children..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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...

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #73 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:40pm

Quote:

So why differentiate between 'can't have children' because the man or woman is sterile...and 'can't have children' because it's 2 men or 2 women???

Neither group (sterile hetero couple, or same-sex couple) can have kids of their own...so they are BOTH equally valid (after the usual checks) to adopt a child....

No, not equal, because a man, or a woman, are more than just their reproductive organs. A woman brings something that no man, no matter how fruity, can, and vice versa.

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In the fullness of time...

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #74 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 4:41pm BTW, folks: there are a significant number of Aussie kids who are currently living with same-sex parents, who lack the legal protections (that their biological parent/s would want them to have) to remain under the care of their non-biological parent in the event of the death or severe incapacity of their biological parent/s...
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