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Same-sex adoption (Read 31977 times)
aikmann4
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #45 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 2:53pm
 
I'm not making any policy prescriptions here because I don't care about fags. I'm just cautioning on a sensible route of action.
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #46 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 2:56pm
 
"Bare in mind, adoption is first about the 'child'  not those who wish to adopt them."

But then we hear bleats about poor childless couples - I would argue adoption is INCREDIBLY INHERENTLY selfish.
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Life_goes_on
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #47 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:02pm
 
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I haven't either. I don't think any exist yet, which is why we need studies.


According to Wiki there are plenty which have been done by reputable institutions.

Quote:
Indeed, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has been remarkably consistent in showing that lesbian and gay parents are every bit as fit and capable as heterosexual parents, and their children are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents,[23][9][20][27][22][28] despite the reality that considerable legal discrimination and inequity remain significant challenges for these families.[20] These data have demonstrated no risk to children as a result of growing up in a family with 1 or more gay parents.[29]


Google is your friend, but I can only assume it'd be an epic job sorting the sources and determining any obvious bias one way or another.
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aikmann4
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #48 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:05pm
 
Quote:
Google is your friend


Problem is I really just didn't care enough to look them up. Fag rights is a non-issue and a political distractor that people expend an inordinate amount of energy wasting their time arguing about.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #49 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:09pm
 
mellie wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 2:52pm:
Bare in mind, adoption is first about the 'child'  not those who wish to adopt them.

Being a kid is tough enough, why make it harder than it has to be for them to fit in at school?

I cant see too many heterosexual parents being OK with their own children sleeping over at a gay household, because unfortunately, there still exists much prejudice in our society.

It might not get said out-loud in polite company, but if my sons slumber party was any indication, (I will just add his gay-friend  has been beaten up more times than I can tell you in the last year)...  my son being a popular kid now protects him though....when he's at school, but the thing is, kids can be cruel, really really cruel, and I know for certain if it weren't for my son and his mates looking after this boy, then he would have left school well before now, and despite the protection my son offers his mate at school, the A-holes find a way of getting to him after school, tagging up his house, and all sorts of wretched things.

Recently, they binned his bag....up-ended the contents of his bag, turned it inside out and stuffed it in a school bin.

Apparently it's still cool to gay-bash among some uncouth yobs and their red-neck parents, so imagine what they would do if they knew another kids parents were gay?

Prejudice and intolerance is very real, so before passing these laws, I might suggest some security in our kids playgrounds might be a good idea.

I had one parent who called me (I think from the pub) and in no uncertain terms advise that my allowing my son to have gay friends would be one of the biggest mistakes of my life.

Naturally, this made me even more determined to allow this slumber party to go ahead!

And it did...without a hitch.

....... But there's still the predicable few who more or less egg their own children on to humiliate and degrade gay students at school, as though it were acceptable.

These attitudes aren't changed over night, and or by passing new bills, first-most, children should always be considered first.

Adopted parents always get the "You aren't my real parents anyway so you cant tell me what to do" thingy at some point...   it's inevitable, and it hurts, (My children's father was adopted), but imagine these kids going to school blowing off steam to mates, telling all about his/her gay parents, this and even condemning the situation themselves this and then after having done so, expecting things to be business as usual when they have gotten over their parent-war...  no way, it's not going to happen.

If anything, we will have kids suing a future government for having been deprived of an optimal environment, in the event their own lives somehow end up a wreck.

Not unlike we saw with indigenous children being adopted out to white family's and things not working out there also.

When will we learn to stop meddling?


Roll Eyes






Mellie...children aren't born with a 'sense' of 'right and wrong'...
All bigotry, whether based on skin colour, religion or sexual preference, is LEARNED behaviour, and is taught by the parents(and by society, to a lesser extent)....
If you're sons gay friend has been beaten up....then that is fully, and ONLY, the fault of the parents of the kids who beat him....

Children, until they are indoctrinated by their parents (or other 'Authority' figures) don't care, and have NO opinion on any thing about differences..

They don't care if a parent is black, white or yellow....they don't care what political party you follow, what religion you are, what footy team/code you follow or what your sexual preference is.....UNTIL they get 'taught' to care.....
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mellie
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #50 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:10pm
 
Mantra, this isn't about the rights of parents, be they gay/straight/partnered or single, it's about what's required in order to give rise to the best possible outcome where the raising of children is concerned.

Sometimes, circumstances would have it that this isn't always possible, but we shouldn't be intentionally burdening children with these circumstances, simply because they sometimes do happen, this and work out OK.

Smiley.....  Like I said, society can be bloody nasty, this and narrow minded also, I'm sure if you asked any 13 year old in the event of their parents having passed away would they prefer to be adopted by a gay or straight couple, they would (unless they were gay themselves) prefer a more normal, and less 'stigmatory'/'unusual' home-life.

Bare in mind, anything that deviates from the stereo-typical at school is prone to scrutiny. Be it a disability, their home-circumstance, the way they talk or walk...right down to the music they listen to and clothes on their backs.

Being a foster kid is tough enough, why make it harder than it has to be?

UndecidedJeeze....

Again, I don't agree with single parents adopting kids either.

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mellie
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #51 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:28pm
 
Quote:
Mellie...children aren't born with a 'sense' of 'right and wrong'...
All bigotry, whether based on skin colour, religion or sexual preference, is LEARNED behaviour, and is taught by the parents(and by society, to a lesser extent)....
If you're sons gay friend has been beaten up....then that is fully, and ONLY, the fault of the parents of the kids who beat him....

Children, until they are indoctrinated by their parents (or other 'Authority' figures) don't care, and have NO opinion on any thing about differences..

They don't care if a parent is black, white or yellow....they don't care what political party you follow, what religion you are, what footy team/code you follow or what your sexual preference is.....UNTIL they get 'taught' to care.

By Giz

True, but not all kids are raised with the same degree of tolerance and understanding, unless of course they plan to exclude them from a mainstream school when the harassment and bullying starts.

You cant change a world view with the passing of a bill, we are talking about generations of entrenched ideology, hatred and prejudice, and if their idea is to put it out there and into peoples faces,(cop-this, this is now the law)... this only stands to worsen the situation for hereto-others who themselves have been on the list waiting for their adoption child for years.  And yes, it takes years.

It's abut what's in the best interests of the children, not passing laws to appease a minority demanding equal rights.

Children have rights too, though why is it theirs are quite often the last to be considered?

Child abuse costs our country up to and beyond $40 billion annually, shouldn't we be trying to solve an already 'cracked' system, before setting about making any changes to an already shameful situation.

http://www.childhood.org.au/Assets/Files/976067aa-98e0-47fc-a608-cbc3d3c11f06.pd...
........  Time our plutocrats started making meaningful changes, this opposed to suiting themselves and their focus-groups.


Who's thinking about the kids, gay/straight rights aside?

The point I'm making here is, while this government is frantically trying to pass bills for gay-adoption/parenting rights, there are so many more areas/rights more worthy of their attention, don't you think?


The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

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« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:36pm by mellie »  

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gizmo_2655
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #52 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:33pm
 
mellie wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:28pm:
Mellie...children aren't born with a 'sense' of 'right and wrong'...
All bigotry, whether based on skin colour, religion or sexual preference, is LEARNED behaviour, and is taught by the parents(and by society, to a lesser extent)....
If you're sons gay friend has been beaten up....then that is fully, and Quote:
ONLY, the fault of the parents of the kids who beat him....

Children, until they are indoctrinated by their parents (or other 'Authority' figures) don't care, and have NO opinion on any thing about differences..

They don't care if a parent is black, white or yellow....they don't care what political party you follow, what religion you are, what footy team/code you follow or what your sexual preference is.....UNTIL they get 'taught' to care.
By Giz

True, but not all kids are raised with the same degree of tolerance and understanding, unless of course they plan to exclude them from a mainstream school when the harassment and bullying starts.

You cant change a world view with the passing of a bill, we are talking about generations of entrenched ideology and prejudice, and if their idea is to put it out there and into peoples faces, this only stands to worsen the situation for hereto-others who themselves have been on the list waiting for their child for years.  And yes, it takes years.

It's abut what's in the best interests of the children, not passing laws to appease a minority demanding equal rights.

Children have rights too, though why is it theirs are quite often the last to be considered?

Child abuse costs our country up to and beyond $40 billion annually, shouldn't we be trying to solve an already 'cracked' system, before setting about making any changes to an already shameful situation.

http://www.childhood.org.au/Assets/Files/976067aa-98e0-47fc-a608-cbc3d3c11f06.pd...
........  Time our plutocrats started making meaningful changes, this opposed to suiting themselves and their focus-groups.


Who;s thinking about the kids, gay/straight rights aside?




But you CAN  legislate in favour of 'Tolerance and understanding' though....

And that will reduce the amount of intolerance and violence directed at 'gay' teens and children....
By educating adults that homosexuality ISN'T a crime or 'sin'..then you reduce the number of parents who teach their children that it's ok to beat up 'gays'....
And the 'best' way to do that is by treating gays the same as everyone else.....
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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #53 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:36pm
 
Quote:
But you CAN legislate 'Tolerance and understanding' though....

And that will reduce the amount of intolerance and violence directed at 'gay' teens and children....
By educating adults that homosexuality ISN'T a crime or 'sin'..then you reduce the number of parents who teach their children that it's ok to beat up 'gays'....
And the 'best' way to do that is by treating gays the same as everyone else.....


You can legislate personal attitudes? How?
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mellie
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #54 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:40pm
 
The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

No, you cant legislate human attitudes, but you can do your best to place children in an environment which doesn't serve to stigmatise, effect them further.

This should be about kids first, not the rights of straight/gay others.



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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #55 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:45pm
 
... wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:36pm:
Quote:
But you CAN legislate 'Tolerance and understanding' though....

And that will reduce the amount of intolerance and violence directed at 'gay' teens and children....
By educating adults that homosexuality ISN'T a crime or 'sin'..then you reduce the number of parents who teach their children that it's ok to beat up 'gays'....
And the 'best' way to do that is by treating gays the same as everyone else.....


You can legislate personal attitudes? How?


You can make certain 'unfriendly' or 'violent' attitudes illegal.....

After all, it's now illegal to lynch or assault people because they have a different skin colour.....so using the same laws to protect people with a different sexual preference isn't that hard is it???
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #56 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:47pm
 
mellie wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:40pm:
The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

No, you cant legislate human attitudes, but you can do your best to place children in an environment which doesn't serve to stigmatise, effect them further.

This should be about kids first, not the rights of straight/gay others.






Oh come on mellie....there is NO fundamental biological right to have parents of different genders....

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #57 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:49pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:45pm:
... wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:36pm:
Quote:
But you CAN legislate 'Tolerance and understanding' though....

And that will reduce the amount of intolerance and violence directed at 'gay' teens and children....
By educating adults that homosexuality ISN'T a crime or 'sin'..then you reduce the number of parents who teach their children that it's ok to beat up 'gays'....
And the 'best' way to do that is by treating gays the same as everyone else.....


You can legislate personal attitudes? How?


You can make certain 'unfriendly' or 'violent' attitudes illegal.....

After all, it's now illegal to lynch or assault people because they have a different skin colour.....so using the same laws to protect people with a different sexual preference isn't that hard is it???




ummmmm I'm pretty sure assault is illegal, no matter who it's against.
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #58 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:51pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:47pm:
mellie wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:40pm:
The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

No, you cant legislate human attitudes, but you can do your best to place children in an environment which doesn't serve to stigmatise, effect them further.

This should be about kids first, not the rights of straight/gay others.






Oh come on mellie....there is NO fundamental biological right to have parents of different genders....




I'm not sure 'right' is the correct term, but I guess It's impossible for anyone other than a man and a women to produce children for a reason....
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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #59 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:54pm
 
mellie wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 3:40pm:
The most fundamental of all human biological rights, of which is the right to having both a mum and a dad, and we cant even do our best to grant kids this when their own have failed them?

Kids first!

Angry

No, you cant legislate human attitudes, but you can do your best to place children in an environment which doesn't serve to stigmatise, effect them further.

This should be about kids first, not the rights of straight/gay others.





And IF it's about the kids first......then there is NO reason to bring sexual preference into the discussion..

It should be about WHO can care for the child best....NOT what the parents preference is...

If a person who's attacted to farm animals is the 'best person' to care for the child....then they are THE best person to raise the child.....

The only restriction should be against a person who's sexually attracted TO children.....and since most gays or heteros are NOT attracted to children....there should be no distinction...

Stability of the relationship, financial status and criminal history/emotional state should be the ONLY concerns.....

After all, it's about the child, not the parent...
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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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