Australian Politics Forum - Same-sex adoption

Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #210 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:16pm

That's all well and good and nicely put.

BUT

You are essentially declaring the morals of our previous generations to be wrong.
Which is pretty arrogant of us.

I don't know what my grandparents' view of gays marrying or adopting would be, but I doubt it would be favourable.

Though my grandfather served in WW2 with an openly gay guy in their regiment so its hardly as if they were homophobic.

You can't compare smoking as the example.
I mean even pick my very own grandparents, my grandmother didn't her entire life. That was from a lady born in 1915 too.
So hardly a social requirement.

I think its wrong for gay people to adopt or marry. I am thinking primarily of the child too. They'd go through hell.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #211 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:33pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:16pm:

That's all well and good and nicely put.

BUT

You are essentially declaring the morals of our previous generations to be wrong.
Which is pretty arrogant of us.

I don't know what my grandparents' view of gays marrying or adopting would be, but I doubt it would be favourable.

Though my grandfather served in WW2 with an openly gay guy in their regiment so its hardly as if they were homophobic.

You can't compare smoking as the example.
I mean even pick my very own grandparents, my grandmother didn't her entire life. That was from a lady born in 1915 too.
So hardly a social requirement.

I think its wrong for gay people to adopt or marry. I am thinking primarily of the child too. They'd go through hell.

Sure I can compare smoking as a moral example.....in the 1930's, every man (for example_, whether he smoked or not, was expected to carry a lighter, and maybe cigarettes so he could offer a light , or a ciggie, to a woman...that was good manner (which WAS a 'moral' imperative)

Laws are based on 'Morals'....Laws change over time ( so of course do 'Morals')...It used to be illegal to be gay...it carried a prison term...

It also used to be illegal to be a non-christian, or a communist, or black....

It used to be 'immoral' (i.e illegal) for women to drink in pubs,,,or to vote, or, if you go back far enough, to be out in public, unaccompanied.....

In Salem, Massachusetts it used to be illegal to dance (because it was considered 'immoral')...

Attidudes change...which changes what is legal...or 'moral'...

The definition of Moral is 'Moral values form a subset of the set of all values, and a value simply consists of the things (abstract or concrete) that some people value. What one person values highly another person may despise. ... Moral values tend to be strongly influenced by cultures. Each culture has a socio-normal set of values for which it... '

So as you can see...it's a system of values based on what the majority of people in YOUR society believe.......if the majority changes their mind....then Morality changes too...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #212 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:35pm When was it ever illegal to be black?
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #213 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:37pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:33pm:

So as you can see...it's a system of values based on what the majority of people in YOUR society believe.......if the majority changes their mind....then Morality changes too...

So using your own argument.
Given the majority of people in California voted for gays to not be allowed to marry.

It is morally right that gays have no place in marrying there yes?

The majority voted and the law reflects that.

The circuit judge who attempted to overrule the will of the people in a vote was acting against the moral values of today's California?

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #214 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:45pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:35pm: When was it ever illegal to be black? Umm before 1860 in the US, for a start
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #215 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:47pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:45pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:35pm:

When was it ever illegal to be black?

Umm before 1860 in the US, for a start

No they weren't breaking the law being black.
They just weren't entitled to various freedoms.

It wasn't illegal being black!

Pedantic I know but you get my point.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #216 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:56pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:37pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:33pm:

So as you can see...it's a system of values based on what the majority of people in YOUR society believe.......if the majority changes their mind....then Morality changes too...

So using your own argument.
Given the majority of people in California voted for gays to not be allowed to marry.

It is morally right that gays have no place in marrying there yes?

The majority voted and the law reflects that.

The circuit judge who attempted to overrule the will of the people in a vote was acting against the moral values of today's California?

LOl nice one...but not really....there is a difference between votes and opinions especially in California where only about 45% of the population vote.....

Granted the vote did show that opinion....but have you checked what percentage of California actually voted??

After all the population of California is 40 million people....but only 13,743,177 voted....that's way less than half...
Voting isn't compulsory in the US...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #217 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:58pm Of course, in NSW it's pretty much a moot point...because the legislation passed....
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #218 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 7:02pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 6:16pm:

That's all well and good and nicely put.

BUT

You are essentially declaring the morals of our previous generations to be wrong.
Which is pretty arrogant of us.

I don't know what my grandparents' view of gays marrying or adopting would be, but I doubt it would be favourable.

Though my grandfather served in WW2 with an openly gay guy in their regiment so its hardly as if they were homophobic.

You can't compare smoking as the example.
I mean even pick my very own grandparents, my grandmother didn't her entire life. That was from a lady born in 1915 too.
So hardly a social requirement.

I think its wrong for gay people to adopt or marry. I am thinking primarily of the child too. They'd go through hell.

AND again NO..I am not declaring the morals of previous generations 'wrong'....just not relevant.....the situation HAS changed....so the idea of what IS moral must have also changed.....

It's like any other ideal.....different conditions create different results....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Bobby.

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #219 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:19pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 12:14am:

What if kids happen to walk in to the bedroom when their
two Dads are bum chumming each other?

It's not acceptable in my opinion to have gays bringing up kids.

What if kids walk into the bedroom when their dad is buming their mum???
Much the same reaction, wouldn't you say??

Don't be so disgusting.

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Yahoon

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #220 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 5:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 12:14am:

What if kids happen to walk in to the bedroom when their
two Dads are bum chumming each other?

It's not acceptable in my opinion to have gays bringing up kids.

What if kids walk into the bedroom when their dad is buming their mum???
Much the same reaction, wouldn't you say??

Don't be so disgusting.

Yes, Bobby's missus has a strapon and does the bumming around them thar parts

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 120644 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Same-sex adoption Reply #221 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:23pm You all know that I used hyperbole in my initial statement. Kids would see that 2 Dads were in bed together at some stage given many years of close family contact.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #222 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:36pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:23pm:

You all know that I used hyperbole in my initial statement.

Kids would see that 2 Dads were in bed together at some stage
given many years of close family contact.

Not if the '2 dads' were smart enough to lock the door they wouldn't...

I never walked in on my parents In flagrante delicto...(thank the gods lol)

And seeing their parents, of whatever gender, just lying in bed would have almost NO effect on the average kid..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Bobby.

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #223 - Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:42pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 11:36pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 5^th, 2010 at 8:23pm:

You all know that I used hyperbole in my initial statement.

Kids would see that 2 Dads were in bed together at some stage
given many years of close family contact.

Not if the '2 dads' were smart enough to lock the door they wouldn't...

I never walked in on my parents In flagrante delicto...(thank the gods lol)

And seeing their parents, of whatever gender, just lying in bed would have almost NO effect on the average kid..

Gizmo - you have a lower sense of community standards compared with me.

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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: Same-sex adoption
Reply #224 - Sep 6^th, 2010 at 1:15am

Gays want so many 'equal rights' these days,
but do you think they would accept Redneck Riot Day once a year, just like a Mardi Gras gets?
What about the Wankers and Yobbos - do they get a special day too??

Homosexuality is a failure of Celibacy,
as is Redneck behaviour a failure of good Family integrity.

Topol once said: "I will bend, but I can never break!"
So where do you draw the line?

With that said, just because a partner was abusive or left - it doesn't mean running to the opposite sex to justify 'hatred' for want of taking on the challenge of single-parenting or finding someone else like the Brady's did.
They say the Spartans were the most lethal warriors in History due to their strong commitment to one another via homosexual partnerships. Hard was it to kill two lovers fighting side by side and knowing full well they weren't coming for your women. Paedophilia was rife through the Spartan society and this was probably where the Homosexual partnerships were justified.
At least Australia used the more responsible 'celibacy' act during the World Wars when 'Mateship' was considered a more constructive liason with your fellow men.

I don't think Homosexuality is cool and to Quote a Hillary Swank character in "Boys don't Cry": "...I have a disease (homosexuality)."
I think the Homosexuals of the USA are nothing more than Control Freaks - nothing more, in their pursuit to manipulate anything they can to justify their behaviour.

I mean, the songs by Guns & Roses were pretty good ...but then when you learn about what the band members were really like.
It makes you wonder when great songs will be pumped out by characters like Charles Manson, Martin Bryant and Ivan Milat.
...now, do you think 'that' is acceptable in the name of music?

Homosexual Liberation is nothing more than an inability to accept the responsibilty of Celibacy.
Why waste time and effort supporting someone who fell off the other side of the horse from Heterosexuality ...focus on the real issue, focus on those who stay upon the saddle and show us how to ride a horse into a better future.

Homosexuals are so boring ...as is the Sydney Mardi-Gras (but I'm sure they were all rooting for the Rednecks during the Cronulla Riots ...right Wink

)

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SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.

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