Australian Politics Forum - Q&A post-election washup

longweekend58

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #15 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:58pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:42pm:

And while two are enjoying your mutual 'whatever it is' the election has aldready been held and your belover labor got flogged. less votes and less seats is hardly a ringing endorsement of labor.

Why because I reject hard line conservatism do I automatically become a Labor supporter????
Yes I would prefer them in this choice but offer me a centralist be it left or even right leading the Liberals and I'll hand out how to vote cards.
Please don't try and tell me Tony is anywhere near the centre.

Why does abbot have to be what you want him to be? You had a leftie (Gillard) to choose from and she was roundly thrashed. it is ONLY the green preferences that have her in a position to be negotiating a govt. without them Wayne Swan would be looking for a job along with about 30 other Labor MPs. At least have the honesty to recognise a job well done when it was well done - eg Abbott. Keating performed a miracle in 1993. I stil hate the scumbag, but i recognise a skillful job when I see one. That is what is called partisan acknoweldgement of your opponent. He is scumbag but a CLEVER scumbag.

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Cyberman Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 391	Re: Q&A post-election washup Reply #16 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:00pm Malcomn is the leftys best fwiend. "Oh if it was only Malcy in charge then we'd all change our votes" Leftards trying to wedge out of being wedged by the greens
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #17 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:06pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:54pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:40pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:53pm:

Mal would be PM with a 10 seat majority
If only the looney right could be broken

Hmmm I believe that experiment was tried and proved a dismal failure. Or does history never teach you laborites ANYTHING?

LOL Longy yes we've been over that ground, and in that world you are correct.
But I think the result we got proves my asseration that if Hockey or Turnbull were leading the Liberals all those protest votes to greens would have gone to the liberals and therefore we'd have a Liberal government.
Tony was a surprise package and did well but could not overcome enough voters suspisions.
And just been reported on Lateline about Arbibs pulling, look out for tomorrows headlines, Bad move Julia.

I dont think the result proves anything of the kind - in fact it proves the opposite. UNder Turnball, the margin was 16% 2PP. UNder Abbott it was reduced to 0.7% and probably government. ON what planet is that anything less than a truly stellar result and proof positive that Abbott was the better choice?

I know you two like turnball better than Abbott and that is your right. But it is not your right to use a preference to cloud a fact. I expect that kind of nonsense from nemesis but not from you dsmithy. For a laborite you do seem to let logic and facts run ahead of your partisanship - which is good.

The Turnball insanity that you two come up with sometimes is no more than a product of your dislike of Abbott. Liek whoever you want and dislike whoever else you like, but let your brain rule your heart. Abbott has probably won the most unlikely and stunning election victory in history. Your dislike of him doesnt change that.

You are comparing Turnbulls 2PP at the time of Rudd and climate change still on the table NOT in the current climate which I am asserting he would have got those votes.
Pity we'll never know, at least in the short term, Abbotts safe and he should be for the very facts you state.

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #18 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:14pm

I thought the best comments I heard were before the election from Tanner at the lunch I went to.

He obviously saw the Greens threat in the seat he was vacating and went on to make the point that a lot of the time people vote Greens knowing full well they will never get into power and never have to put their policies in place.

Therefore they are a 'safe haven' for people who want to protest that labor is not strong enough on some issues.

He made a valid point that a lot of the Greens policies are not that well thought out, they escape with near-on zero analysis and questioning of them and as a result can, how he put it, 'promise literally anything knowing full well they will never have to deliver it'.

Neither Liberals nor Labor have that luxury.

I believe Labor had to move to the Right to become electable. Its a simple matter of fact that mainstream Australia is to the Right on many issues, just to varying degrees.
As a result of moving to the Right, Labor lost the Left to the Greens.

They would have got back in, because that vote supports Labor in preferences.

The difference is this time they lost too many on the centre Right.
They just weren't trustworthy anymore.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Equitist

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #19 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:21pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:14pm:

He made a valid point that a lot of the Greens policies are not that well thought out, they escape with near-on zero analysis and questioning of them and as a result can, how he put it, 'promise literally anything knowing full well they will never have to deliver it'.

Neither Liberals nor Labor have that luxury.

Here's an obvious one that the Libs can't deliver on: -

"We will stop the boats!"

Yeah, right!?

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Bobby.

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #20 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:51pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:14pm:

I thought the best comments I heard were before the election from Tanner at the lunch I went to.

He obviously saw the Greens threat in the seat he was vacating and went on to make the point that a lot of the time people vote Greens knowing full well they will never get into power and never have to put their policies in place.

Therefore they are a 'safe haven' for people who want to protest that labor is not strong enough on some issues.

He made a valid point that a lot of the Greens policies are not that well thought out, they escape with near-on zero analysis and questioning of them and as a result can, how he put it, 'promise literally anything knowing full well they will never have to deliver it'.

Neither Liberals nor Labor have that luxury.

I believe Labor had to move to the Right to become electable. Its a simple matter of fact that mainstream Australia is to the Right on many issues, just to varying degrees.
As a result of moving to the Right, Labor lost the Left to the Greens.

They would have got back in, because that vote supports Labor in preferences.

The difference is this time they lost too many on the centre Right.
They just weren't trustworthy anymore.

Andrei - that's all rubbish.
The people of Australia voted for minor parties because both
major parties didn't have good policies.
They spent all their election time with negative ads putting
each other down.
The people agreed that both were bad because the negative ads were mostly true
& voted accordingly.
The Greens have great policies.
Labor doesn't care about the environment - proof
- they never worked with the greens to get an ETS up & running.

The Liberals don't have any ETS policy.
Tony says human induced global warming is crap.

We deserve to be in this situation.
Also - it's good.
For the next 3 years no major party will become drunk with power & do whatever they want.
Do you want some examples of that?

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codswal

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #21 - Aug 24^th, 2010 at 7:50am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:51pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:14pm:

I thought the best comments I heard were before the election from Tanner at the lunch I went to.

He obviously saw the Greens threat in the seat he was vacating and went on to make the point that a lot of the time people vote Greens knowing full well they will never get into power and never have to put their policies in place.

Therefore they are a 'safe haven' for people who want to protest that labor is not strong enough on some issues.

He made a valid point that a lot of the Greens policies are not that well thought out, they escape with near-on zero analysis and questioning of them and as a result can, how he put it, 'promise literally anything knowing full well they will never have to deliver it'.

Neither Liberals nor Labor have that luxury.

I believe Labor had to move to the Right to become electable. Its a simple matter of fact that mainstream Australia is to the Right on many issues, just to varying degrees.
As a result of moving to the Right, Labor lost the Left to the Greens.

They would have got back in, because that vote supports Labor in preferences.

The difference is this time they lost too many on the centre Right.
They just weren't trustworthy anymore.

Andrei - that's all rubbish.
The people of Australia voted for minor parties because both
major parties didn't have good policies.
They spent all their election time with negative ads putting
each other down.
The people agreed that both were bad because the negative ads were mostly true
& voted accordingly.
The Greens have great policies.
Labor doesn't care about the environment - proof
- they never worked with the greens to get an ETS up & running.

The Liberals don't have any ETS policy.
Tony says human induced global warming is crap.

We deserve to be in this situation.
Also - it's good.
For the next 3 years no major party will become drunk with power & do whatever they want.
Do you want some examples of that?

bobby do you really believe people cant see past the ads...you sound like the Union Movements got to you..

the Greens have great policies... yeah right.,..lower the age of consent/voting..good one .. 4 day working week another good one for the country..un against countries that work 24/7.. tax.tax.tax. everything.. oh I like that one.give the States more tax room.. dont forget death duties.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #22 - Aug 24^th, 2010 at 8:30am

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:58pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:42pm:

And while two are enjoying your mutual 'whatever it is' the election has aldready been held and your belover labor got flogged. less votes and less seats is hardly a ringing endorsement of labor.

Why because I reject hard line conservatism do I automatically become a Labor supporter????
Yes I would prefer them in this choice but offer me a centralist be it left or even right leading the Liberals and I'll hand out how to vote cards.
Please don't try and tell me Tony is anywhere near the centre.

Why does abbot have to be what you want him to be? You had a leftie (Gillard) to choose from and she was roundly thrashed. it is ONLY the green preferences that have her in a position to be negotiating a govt. without them Wayne Swan would be looking for a job along with about 30 other Labor MPs. At least have the honesty to recognise a job well done when it was well done - eg Abbott. Keating performed a miracle in 1993. I stil hate the scumbag, but i recognise a skillful job when I see one. That is what is called partisan acknoweldgement of your opponent. He is scumbag but a CLEVER scumbag.

I have acknowledged Tony's good job 3 posts back
Tony was a surprise package and did well but could not overcome enough voters suspisions.
Abbott does not have to be anything other than himself, I'm not asking for him to change & if he did he would lose my respect.
But I don't agree that far right Howardism is the way forward for this country, we had 11 years of it & what did we get, not much other than people earning 60k+ are now able to claim government benefits.
Yes we had plenty of money in the bank but the house was falling down around our ears, surpluses are not the ONLY thing defining good governance.
Hence my desire to see a centralist Liberal leader become PM.
Tony is going nowhere for the foreseeable future & nor should he so my desire will remain just that at this stage but that does & will not stop me advocating for it.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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muso

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #23 - Aug 24^th, 2010 at 9:00am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:51pm:

The people of Australia voted for minor parties because both
major parties didn't have good policies.
They spent all their election time with negative ads putting
each other down.
The people agreed that both were bad because the negative ads were mostly true
& voted accordingly.
The Greens have great policies.
Labor doesn't care about the environment - proof
- they never worked with the greens to get an ETS up & running.

The Liberals don't have any ETS policy.
Tony says human induced global warming is crap.

We deserve to be in this situation.
Also - it's good.
For the next 3 years no major party will become drunk with power & do whatever they want.
Do you want some examples of that?

I agree that it's good. The Australian parliament was never intended to be a place where two major parties strut around wasting time by saying how great they are while putting the other major party down.

That's despite the fact that the actual difference between their policies is trivial, and it comes down to a kind of football team mentality reduced to the lowest common denominator of leftards versus rightards. It's stupid and it's immature, and I refuse to be part of the cheer squad of any party. (For one thing, I look silly in bobby socks. Tongue

)

In business we have to work with people who don't always agree with us. Why can't the major parties start to work together on the things that really matter for our country? There is a lot of common ground there. The Brits had to go through a similar agonising phase where two mortal enemies have formed an unlikely alliance - the Cons and the Dems. They might be 'Condem'd' to a term in parliament together, but a lot of good will come of it and maybe like the Brits, we'll start to realise that democracy works in mysterious ways.

Democracy is a beautiful process that has nothing to do with the bully boys of the major parties and their cheersquads.

The people of Australia have made it quite clear what the outcome should be. It's not about political parties any more.

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aussiefree2ride

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #24 - Aug 24^th, 2010 at 9:23am

Equitist wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:21pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:14pm:

He made a valid point that a lot of the Greens policies are not that well thought out, they escape with near-on zero analysis and questioning of them and as a result can, how he put it, 'promise literally anything knowing full well they will never have to deliver it'.

Neither Liberals nor Labor have that luxury.

Here's an obvious one that the Libs can't deliver on: -

"We will stop the boats!"

Yeah, right!?

What has happened to the numbers of boat traffic since 07?
Doh! Grin

Is the penny STILL not dropping? Cheesy

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Bobby.

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #25 - Aug 24^th, 2010 at 8:31pm

muso wrote on Aug 24^th, 2010 at 9:00am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 11:51pm:

The people of Australia voted for minor parties because both
major parties didn't have good policies.
They spent all their election time with negative ads putting
each other down.
The people agreed that both were bad because the negative ads were mostly true
& voted accordingly.
The Greens have great policies.
Labor doesn't care about the environment - proof
- they never worked with the greens to get an ETS up & running.

The Liberals don't have any ETS policy.
Tony says human induced global warming is crap.

We deserve to be in this situation.
Also - it's good.
For the next 3 years no major party will become drunk with power & do whatever they want.
Do you want some examples of that?

I agree that it's good. The Australian parliament was never intended to be a place where two major parties strut around wasting time by saying how great they are while putting the other major party down.

That's despite the fact that the actual difference between their policies is trivial, and it comes down to a kind of football team mentality reduced to the lowest common denominator of leftards versus rightards. It's stupid and it's immature, and I refuse to be part of the cheer squad of any party. (For one thing, I look silly in bobby socks. Tongue

)

In business we have to work with people who don't always agree with us. Why can't the major parties start to work together on the things that really matter for our country? There is a lot of common ground there. The Brits had to go through a similar agonising phase where two mortal enemies have formed an unlikely alliance - the Cons and the Dems. They might be 'Condem'd' to a term in parliament together, but a lot of good will come of it and maybe like the Brits, we'll start to realise that democracy works in mysterious ways.

Democracy is a beautiful process that has nothing to do with the bully boys of the major parties and their cheersquads.

The people of Australia have made it quite clear what the outcome should be. It's not about political parties any more.

Very nicely written Muso.
That's why I'm not a Libbo or a Laborite.
I'm not really a Green either.
I consider each issue on it's merits.
If our common needs are advanced then I would of approve it.

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Equitist

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NSW

Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #26 - Aug 30^th, 2010 at 9:49pm

Q&A post-election washup - Part 2: on now in the Eastern States...

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/

Tonight's panellists

* Jessica Rudd - author: Campaign Ruby

* Malcolm Fraser - former Australian Prime Minister

* John Keane - author: The Life and Death of Democracy

* Chris Berg - research fellow: Institute of Public Affairs

* Christine Wallace - journalist and commentator.

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Dnarever

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Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #27 - Aug 30^th, 2010 at 10:17pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:40pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:53pm:

Mal would be PM with a 10 seat majority
If only the looney right could be broken

Hmmm I believe that experiment was tried and proved a dismal failure. Or does history never teach you laborites ANYTHING?

Yes I agree Funny how the Libs seem to prefer More Narrow minded limited Leaders with little vision and no thought of reform.

.

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Q&A post-election washup Reply #28 - Aug 30^th, 2010 at 10:32pm Wow, Fraser is really serving it up tonight - especially to the Libs and News Ltd! I wonder how visibly and widely this will be reported tomorrow...
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Equitist

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Posts: 9632
NSW

Re: Q&A post-election washup
Reply #29 - Aug 30^th, 2010 at 10:38pm

Crikey I just googled on Malcolm Fraser - and pulled up all these tweets: -

Quote:

\#
‎
justinbarbour‎: I take back all of the mean things that I said about Malcolm Fraser. The thing he just said about 'real Liberals' was amazing. #qanda
Twitter -
50
50 seconds ago
#
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MichaelByrnes‎: Malcolm Fraser is right. Small "l" liberals have no place in the modern Liberal party. #qanda #ausvotes #auswaits
Twitter -
56
56 seconds ago
#
‎
tanubi‎: Malcolm Fraser - ouch! #qanda
Twitter -
57
57 seconds ago
#
‎
Shirleymullet‎: Turnbull and Fraser should form the Awesome Malcolm Party. I'd vote for them. #qanda
Twitter -
59
59 seconds ago
#
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paddytrick‎: I think I love Malcolm Fraser, I guess my rage is waning. #qanda
Twitter -
72
1 minute ago
#
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jboyded‎: Malcolm Fraser also agrees about NewsCorp influence. QandA just talking about the greening of Abbott as impossible and Turnbull as moving
Twitter -
73
1 minute ago
#
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KJBar‎: Malcolm Turnbull .. ah Fraser! Oh dear! #qanda
Twitter -
74
1 minute ago
#
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fanny_fair‎: Malcolm turnb-I mean fraser #oops #qanda
Twitter -
78
1 minute ago
#
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jazir1979‎: RT @daev: Money on Malcolm Fraser has tied an onion to his belt, which was the style at the time.
Twitter -
109
1 minute ago
#
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djdrey‎: Wow! Malcolm Fraser putting the knife into the Libs and current politics on #qanda.
Twitter -
124
2 minutes ago

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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