Australian Politics Forum - What the independents should ask for.

John S

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What the independents should ask for.
Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:28pm

I think the independents should ask for some electoral reform to get the major parties onside.

Have fix 4 years team for Federal Parliament. Tony Windsor was in NSW Parliament when that was forced onto the goverment for independents support.

When a Senator resigned for his party he should be force to resign from the Senate as well. Most people now vote above the line in the Senate for policitial party not below the line for an person.

It would be good to get all the States onside and have all State elections 2 years after an Federal elections.

Have the Senators take their seat in the Senate straight after the elections and have half up for elections at the federal elections and the other half at state elections.

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Verge

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #1 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:33pm

John S wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:28pm:

I think the independents should ask for some electoral reform to get the major parties onside.

Have fix 4 years team for Federal Parliament. Tony Windsor was in NSW Parliament when that was forced onto the goverment for independents support.

When a Senator resigned for his party he should be force to resign from the Senate as well. Most people now vote above the line in the Senate for policitial party not below the line for an person.

It would be good to get all the States onside and have all State elections 2 years after an Federal elections.

Have the Senators take their seat in the Senate straight after the elections and have half up for elections at the federal elections and the other half at state elections.

I like the idea of fixed terms, however I prefer 3 years.

I dont like the games governments play on when they will call elections.

I like your idea on party resignations in the senate.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41564 Gender:	Re: What the independents should ask for. Reply #2 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:36pm i agree riverina and a fixed date for the elections
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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #3 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:47pm

I think they should have an open and far ranging enquiry into the perks and payments that pollies and senators enjoy, purely so the people of Aussie can have a clear picture.

I wonder why three years is so attractive for the lower house, yet we all accept the premise that Senators get six years.

I think whatever the time frame is, it should be the same, and should be MORE synchronised.

We have senate elections on the same day as HOR elections - why not state and local? Or perhaps "mid term" elections for state and local (impossible under the constitution, just thinking out loud).

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mozzaok

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #4 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:07pm

I agree that a four year fixed term election process would remove a lot of the current political pork barrelling that we see from both sides of politics.
I am not sure about what the best way to structure the Senate is to best work with that system, as the idea of a party sweeping into power without the tempering influence of a senate that will not just act as a rubber stamp to any and all proposals is one of the best features of our system, and if the HoR and the Senate went together, we would lose much of that benefit.
The option of having Senators sit for 8 years does seem a bit too long, so having half senate elections, linked to the federal poll would mean we either had 4 year Senate terms, with one half Senate election at the time of the State election, and the other at the Federal.

I can't see how we could stay with 6 year terms with four year State and Federal cycles, so we would need to decide on whether we wanted four or eight year Senate terms.
I think I would lean towards four, but could be convinced otherwise if good reasons were shown.

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Dnarever

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #5 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:14pm

John S wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:28pm:

I think the independents should ask for some electoral reform to get the major parties onside.

When a Senator resigned for his party he should be force to resign from the Senate as well. Most people now vote above the line in the Senate for policitial party not below the line for an person.

.

You are aware that most of the independants have done this, they are mostly x nationals.

I would think it a better idea to change the rules for voting under the line to make this easier instead of virtually forcing an above the line vote.

You should be allowed to vote for who you want under the line and to stop numbering when you want. 1 to 10 or 1 to 20 and leave the rest blank if you like. After about that point you are really only identifying the order in which you do not want your vote to be cast.

Broadly I agree with electoral reform but am not sure that the indipendants would see this in their interests.

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Equitist

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #6 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:17pm

Please delete wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:47pm:

I think they should have an open and far ranging enquiry into the perks and payments that pollies and senators enjoy, purely so the people of Aussie can have a clear picture.

I wonder why three years is so attractive for the lower house, yet we all accept the premise that Senators get six years.

I think whatever the time frame is, it should be the same, and should be MORE synchronised.

We have senate elections on the same day as HOR elections - why not state and local? Or perhaps "mid term" elections for state and local (impossible under the constitution, just thinking out loud).

I can see where you are coming from, Ernie - and I agree with much of what you have said...

However, for reasons of national stability and continuity, I support 6 year terms for Senators (actually, according to this page http://www.aph.gov.au/parl.htm, that applies only to State Senators, Territory Senators are only elected for 3 year terms).

I would support fixed 3-4 year terms for MP's and I agree that there needs to be more stringent and consistent regulations, on perks and potential conflicts of interests for every elected pollie.

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John S

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #7 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:22pm

Please delete wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:47pm:

I think they should have an open and far ranging enquiry into the perks and payments that pollies and senators enjoy, purely so the people of Aussie can have a clear picture.

I wonder why three years is so attractive for the lower house, yet we all accept the premise that Senators get six years.

I think whatever the time frame is, it should be the same, and should be MORE synchronised.

We have senate elections on the same day as HOR elections - why not state and local? Or perhaps "mid term" elections for state and local (impossible under the constitution, just thinking out loud).

I might not explained myself well in the opening post. What I mean is having all state elections 2 years after federal elections would be like "midteam" elections.

Let say the federal election for HoR and half the Senate is held on the second last Saturday in August 2010, then all state elections and the other half of the Senate is held on the second Saturday in August 2012.

That way all politicians would have a 4 year team.

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: What the independents should ask for. Reply #8 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:23pm "I support 6 year terms for Senators" I don't understand - why not, then, six years for the HoR?
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Equitist

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #9 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:30pm

Please delete wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:23pm:

"I support 6 year terms for Senators"

I don't understand - why not, then, six years for the HoR?

6 years is a long period for partisan carrots, sticks and porkbarrelling.

It is a bit less than 3 years since the Labs got in and for some that has obviously been an eternity!

I also shudder at the thought, of what the Howardian Libs would have done, if they had wielded a 6 year effective-dictatorship with such impunity as they did in their last 3 year term...

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John S

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #10 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:41pm

Dnarever wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:14pm:

John S wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:28pm:

I think the independents should ask for some electoral reform to get the major parties onside.

When a Senator resigned for his party he should be force to resign from the Senate as well. Most people now vote above the line in the Senate for policitial party not below the line for an person.

.

You are aware that most of the independants have done this, they are mostly x nationals.
I would think it a better idea to change the rules for voting under the line to make this easier instead of virtually forcing an above the line vote.

You should be allowed to vote for who you want under the line and to stop numbering when you want. 1 to 10 or 1 to 20 and leave the rest blank if you like. After about that point you are really only identifying the order in which you do not want your vote to be cast.

Broadly I agree with electoral reform but am not sure that the indipendants would see this in their interests.

According to the Senate web site there is only one independent in the senate and that is Mr X from South Australia.

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/contacts/los.htm

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« Last Edit: Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 2:07pm by John S »

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: What the independents should ask for. Reply #11 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 1:51pm "6 years is a long period for partisan carrots, sticks and porkbarrelling. " The senate is primarily occupied by Labor and Liberal hacks - why then do senators from the LibLab Party deserve six years, and MP's from the LabLib Party get three?
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perceptions_now

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #12 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 2:36pm

This will not just be about the independents, there are also the Green considerations.

For example, there is little point in the Libs coming to an agreement with 3-4 independents, to then have the Greens (together with Labor) knock back anything that isn't Green!

Btw, as I have said previously, I am in favour of fixed 4 year terms, for both the house of Reps & the Senate. I also favour simultaneous elections for the Federal parliament and all States, but no Local elections, as Local Councils should be disbanded and their responsibilities should be placed in a new department under either State or Federal governments.

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Verge

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Re: What the independents should ask for.
Reply #13 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 2:37pm

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 2:36pm:

This will not just be about the independents, there are also the Green considerations.

For example, there is little point in the Libs coming to an agreement with 3-4 independents, to then have the Greens (together with Labor) knock back anything that isn't Green!

Btw, as I have said previously, I am in favour of fixed 4 year terms, for both the house of Reps & the Senate. I also favour simultaneous elections for the Federal parliament and all States, but no Local elections, as Local Councils should be disbanded and their responsibilities should be placed in a new department under either State or Federal governments.

I beg to differ, I would rather see the states gone. Its bad enough NSW stands for Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong.

At least with Councils we get some direct input.

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: What the independents should ask for. Reply #14 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 2:57pm "At least with Councils we get some direct input. " I agree - much more representative. Maybe the Senate should be a house of Mayors.
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