Australian Politics Forum - Independents hold the key

mellie

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #15 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:21am

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:17am:

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 8:03am:

Quote:

You really need to get a bit of real-politic into your thinking. Take a good look at the votes in each of these seats. Given that labor supporters are about as plentiful as snow on Uluru can you imagine what wil happen to them if they support a labor govt? Their careers wll be gone, their reputations will be gone andin FNQ whose to say that is all they will lose! They will get a very good deal from Abbott to support him while knowing that they dont have a choice anyhow.

longy

You make too many assumptions longy, and only Katters seat, in deepest darkest redneck country is liable to throw up any real protest against siding with a Gillard government, which is another reason not to want him as part of a minority government, but not the primary one, he should just stay as an independent, like he has been, as that role suits him best.

I am guessing you do not spend a lot of time in regional australia if you think they are all far right wing idiots who would rise up against anyone who does not share their right wing views, because the larger majority are not politically motivated at all, and will happily support anyone that will deliver the best outcomes for their communities.

The massive falling off of the Nats in the bush shows that they do not think that a single party alone will deliver those results, and I can see both Oakshott's and Windsor's electorates rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of having their local concerns put front and centre in a new government.

I am referring to the indisputable fact that these three seats have some of the smallest labor votes in the country. so small in fact that they barely register on the scale. That these seats are massive conservative seats is not in question and the notion of them supporting labor is ridiculous. Take a look at Peter Lewis the Liberal independant - and lunatic - in SA some years ago. 24hrs after standing as a Liberal he decided to support a minoritylabor govt. at the next election he was crushed mercilessly by his electorate. the same fate awaits any of these 3 independants who want to bypass the wishes of their electorates.

The outcome of this election will make and break quite a few careers, in the long run.

Cool

Australia has already decided who they would prefer to be their PM, and if any of these Independents go against the wishes of a nation, then I cant see their futures being terribly bright.

Not in the long run! Cool

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41582 Gender:	Re: Independents hold the key Reply #16 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:25am longweekend - and as an independant, you'ld have to klook at the promaries. libs - 46% alp - 35 % the peolpe say, LIBS
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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Independents hold the key Reply #17 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:26am I agree with your contention for Katter's electorate longy, and that is one of the reasons why I think that Gillard should not try and conscript his vote as part of a minority government.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41582 Gender:	Re: Independents hold the key Reply #18 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:32am judas should just cry to her "hair dresser " bf and give up.
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mozzaok

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #19 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:33am

lol, one good thing about this process is that the Lib supporters will have to accept that they do not have the independents as mindless coalition lackeys as they had hoped.

Whoever forms government will have to deliver real benefits to the communities of these members if they want their support.
Rob Oakeshott made the point time and again in his interview, that he hoped this outcome might work to show the people of Australia the value of true local political representation, and I think he is right on the money.

Most of us vote for a Party, because we think it is the only way to see any worthwhile policies delivered, but if we do get a workable minority government, I can see both Major parties losing a lot more votes to independents at the next election.

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skippy.

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #20 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:36am

As of this morning both parties are on 72 seats each, the Greens have said they'll go with Labor thats 73 plus Labor could still win the Tassie seat, if not the independent GREEN will most likely go with Labor, thats 74 seats.
The best the Libs can do is 73 seats plus maybe the three independents equals 76, BUT they need a speaker thats 75 votes on the floor so a majority of one.
BUT, they need a foreign minister who never leaves the country while parliament sits and no one can be sick during parliament or a no confidence motion could be moved.
The best thing for Australia is the independents to side with Labor.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41582 Gender:	Re: Independents hold the key Reply #21 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:39am skippy - you are safe here. bullyboy mozza will never censure you. leftards of a cowardly feather .........
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mellie

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #22 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:42am

The best thing for Australia is for them to be able to decide the fate of their own nations leadership, not for this decision to be left up to a few career climbing Independents and or the mother-in-law of a Labor front bencher GG Quentin Bryce.

This isn't democracy, it's Quentocracy.

I believe the Australian people have already spoken.

Labor truly have no respect for the Australian people, are more or less deciding their votes for them, well, are giving it their best shot.

It wont wash.

Cool

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mozzaok

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #23 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:47am

Yes the tight numbers will mean that we will be likely to see a No Confidence vote sooner or later, due to unavoidable absences, which will mean that we will all be going back to the polls much sooner than we would like, but I for one hope that the people of Australia get to see the two independents, Windsor, and Oakeshott, performing well as part of a minority government, to inspire even more people to run as independents, and more people to vote for them.

Imn recent time we have seen most independents as single issue extremists that attract few votes from normal aussies, but really moderate, politically centrist independents seeking to represent their local electorate, and the nation, could make a great improvement to our parliament.

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mozzaok

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #24 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:50am

Keep it up sprint and you will be getting a real ban.

Try and make some political comments that involve an actual political opinion, and not just persist with your idiotic Liberal fanboy sloganeering.

I honestly cannot think of one intelligent post that I have seen from you this whole campaign, so grow up and stop sooking like a little baby, you are embarrassing yourself.

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mellie

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #25 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:56am

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:47am:

Yes the tight numbers will mean that we will be likely to see a No Confidence vote sooner or later, due to unavoidable absences, which will mean that we will all be going back to the polls much sooner than we would like, but I for one hope that the people of Australia get to see the two independents, Windsor, and Oakeshott, performing well as part of a minority government, to inspire even more people to run as independents, and more people to vote for them.

Imn recent time we have seen most independents as single issue extremists that attract few votes from normal aussies, but really moderate, politically centrist independents seeking to represent their local electorate, and the nation, could make a great improvement to our parliament.

I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote...why should a Labor government be allowed to desperately squander more money in order to grapple for a leadership they clearly don't deserve?

It's the only sensible thing to do.

Because should we head back to the polls, it's clear, the Labor party wont win anyway.

The only thing Labor had going for them were the Greens how-to-vote cards...without these, they wouldn't have stood a chance.

Would have been a Liberal victory.

Again, the Australian people have already decided, Gillard reminds me of one of those 'red faces' performers who have been gonged off the stage, though keep on performing.

Booo, hiss, Booo, take a hint ALP!

Australia don't want you.

Not even your own want you...being the dysfunctional little arrangements that you be.

the ALP is a sham.i

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skippy.

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #26 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:01am

mellie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:56am:

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 9:47am:

Yes the tight numbers will mean that we will be likely to see a No Confidence vote sooner or later, due to unavoidable absences, which will mean that we will all be going back to the polls much sooner than we would like, but I for one hope that the people of Australia get to see the two independents, Windsor, and Oakeshott, performing well as part of a minority government, to inspire even more people to run as independents, and more people to vote for them.

Imn recent time we have seen most independents as single issue extremists that attract few votes from normal aussies, but really moderate, politically centrist independents seeking to represent their local electorate, and the nation, could make a great improvement to our parliament.

I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote...why should a Labor government be allowed to desperately squander more money in order to grapple for a leadership they clearly don't deserve?

It's the only sensible thing to do.

Because should we head back to the polls, it's clear, the Labor party wont win anyway.

The only thing Labor had going for them were the Greens how-to-vote cards...without these, they wouldn't have stood a chance.

Would have been a Liberal victory.

Again, the Australian people have already decided, Gillard reminds me of one of those 'red faces' performers who have been gonged off the stage, though keep on performing.

Booo, hiss, Booo, take a hint ALP!

Australia don't want you.

Not even your own want you...being the dysfunctional little arrangements that you be.

the ALP is a sham.i

If the public wanted Abbott he'd have won, he didn't.
It doesn't matter who forms gov, neither will have a mandate and we'll be back at the polls in months not years.
That said its interesting to hear the Libs whine about preferences, the coalition are made up of four parties against Labors one.

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Amadd

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #27 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:03am

I wanna see Abbott govern with no advantage. I'm hoping the libs get in now.
He's crowed about Labour not being able to govern without a 17 seat advantage. The libs need that and more.

Let's see him bring back workchoices, let's see him deny spending for the future of Australia to bring about a false government profit, let's see him bring about the true liberal idealism.
What other policy did he have? Oh he didn't talk about foreign debt did he? Hospitals, they are stuffed, you pay. Education, you pay. Roads, you pay.
Geez it seems so simple to bring about a "Government" surplus when all that you do is collect taxes.
But he'll be able to employ dial-up broadband I'm sure Grin

Too bad you're gonna be held to account Tony. Now you are also responsible for climate change, and the farmers, and everthing else.. not just business making profits. The finish line is 3 marathons away.
Better raise those taxes hey?

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mozzaok

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #28 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:06am

Quote:

I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote..

The absolute disingenuousness of the Coalition supporters on this issue is staggering.
If the positions were reversed, they would most definitely not be making these arguments, which means they have no actual principle they support, just a party.

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mellie

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Re: Independents hold the key
Reply #29 - Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:17am

mozzaok wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 10:06am:

Quote:

I think all preferences should detracted from the primary vote..

The absolute disingenuousness of the Coalition supporters on this issue is staggering.
If the positions were reversed, they would most definitely not be making these arguments, which means they have no actual principle they support, just a party.

Either way, it should come down to the majority primary vote..not a few bribable well-connected power-brokers.

And as a Liberal supporter who herself refused to place any preferences, (refer to my how did you voter thread)....I made my stance on the preference system itself quite clear, even before going to the polls...so you may not place me in this category.

Re- if the roles were reversed thingy.

Cool

.....Again, I believe Australia has already cast their vote, now should Labor which has the support of a few power-brokers and chamber suck-holes choose to go against the wishes of an overwhelming majority Australian vote, Labor as a party will have spat in the face of democracy,'once again' this and will never live it down.

Labor, a chamber full of "caucus" suck-holes and deep-throats, as per their own partys leaders confessions.

A most dysfunctional lot...we will all be glad to see the back of, once they can chisel show bag-Shorten off his soapbox.

Quote:

"Oh mummy Quentin dearest, I though knocking up your daughter and screwing around behind my wife's back then dumping her at the football would boost my political career, what's happening here?"

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