Australian Politics Forum - So who won before preferences were distributed??

gizmo_2655

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #30 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:52pm

Please delete wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:43pm:

Bye Tuckey, I hope your past catches up with you one dark night.

And therewith goes a coalition seat. The incoming WA Nationals member has said he will vote as an independent.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/feral-crook-bludgeons-ironbar-20100822-13akd.html

Which doesn't really mean much....he STILL counts as a Nationals win...which means he's 1 more seat for the Coalition...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Deborahmac09 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1619	Re: So who won before preferences were distributed?? Reply #31 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:53pm Giz, tuckey needed to go. Someone better is in there now, no matter who they are with.
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aikmann4 Gold Member Offline Posts: 2093 canberra	Re: So who won before preferences were distributed?? Reply #32 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:55pm Iron Bar Tuckey was awesome. I wish we had more southrons in the government and fewer whingey, beta male types.
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longweekend58

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #33 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:55pm

The 2PP measurment is a convenience and not a absolute measure of which party was the most popular.

Firstly,it is based on the absurd assumption that everyone's second preference is actually their genuine sewcond preference and that everyone even HAS a second preference - which most do not. the vast majority of voters vote with their first preference only and cast a second preference because they are required to.

Secondly, if you want to make some humungous assessment (that labor was more popular) based on 0.7% of a mathematically constructed measurement then you are desperate to prove a point that no one believes.

Thirdly, it sounds like the sports fan trying to calim some kind of moral victory after the siren because their team had injuries or some other garbage.

Labor was flogged at this election and that is not in dispute except by people who are unable to read the will of the people.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #34 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:58pm

Deborahmac09 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:48pm:

Millie, neither party have won the right to govern in their own right.
The people have spoken, they didn't trust either labor or L/NP to have a majority government.

Quit claiming this as a liberal win. It is not. However it may well be a win for our Nation.
What is clear is L/NP and Labor have lost the trust of the people.

Thats not at all true. In any two-person race with one runner coming from well behind running far better, there wil be one point in time when they are equal on the track. If you measured only that point in time you would say they were equal athletes and equally deserving of winning the race. and you would be dead wrong.

Abbot started this race 16% behind and finished slightly ahead. By any understanding of the term 'race' Abbott is the better performer and deserving winner.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Please delete

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #35 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 6:08pm

"Which doesn't really mean much....he STILL counts as a Nationals win...which means he's 1 more seat for the Coalition... "

Wrong.

"The WA Nationals are a separate party from their federal counterparts, with a different structure.

With both major parties having to negotiate with a Greens member and three, possibly four, independents in order to form government, Mr Crook's position further complicates the situation.

The former farmer and pastoral consultant declared he would be just as prepared to talk with the Labor party as he would be with the Liberals."

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Equitist

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #36 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 6:11pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:55pm:

The 2PP measurment is a convenience and not a absolute measure of which party was the most popular.

Firstly,it is based on the absurd assumption that everyone's second preference is actually their genuine sewcond preference and that everyone even HAS a second preference - which most do not. the vast majority of voters vote with their first preference only and cast a second preference because they are required to.

Secondly, if you want to make some humungous assessment (that labor was more popular) based on 0.7% of a mathematically constructed measurement then you are desperate to prove a point that no one believes.

Thirdly, it sounds like the sports fan trying to calim some kind of moral victory after the siren because their team had injuries or some other garbage.

Labor was flogged at this election and that is not in dispute except by people who are unable to read the will of the people.

As a commentator observed earlier today, the two majors are simply adopting politically convenient positions - because the 2PP suits one and the primary vote suits the other...

Meantime, the Libs are conveniently ignoring the fact that they only soaked up about 1/3 of the primary vote leakage from the Labs - the bulk of the primary vote lost by the Labs actually went to the Greens...

Clearly, the Libs are not popular amongst the swinging voters of Australia who determine the outcome of our elections - not to mention the huge number of voters who didn't support either of the LibLabs and voted informally...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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longweekend58

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #37 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 6:16pm

Equitist wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 6:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 5:55pm:

The 2PP measurment is a convenience and not a absolute measure of which party was the most popular.

Firstly,it is based on the absurd assumption that everyone's second preference is actually their genuine sewcond preference and that everyone even HAS a second preference - which most do not. the vast majority of voters vote with their first preference only and cast a second preference because they are required to.

Secondly, if you want to make some humungous assessment (that labor was more popular) based on 0.7% of a mathematically constructed measurement then you are desperate to prove a point that no one believes.

Thirdly, it sounds like the sports fan trying to calim some kind of moral victory after the siren because their team had injuries or some other garbage.

Labor was flogged at this election and that is not in dispute except by people who are unable to read the will of the people.

As a commentator observed earlier today, the two majors are simply adopting politically convenient positions - because the 2PP suits one and the primary vote suits the other...

Meantime, the Libs are conveniently ignoring the fact that they only soaked up about 1/3 of the primary vote leakage from the Labs - the bulk of the primary vote lost by the Labs actually went to the Greens...

Clearly, the Libs are not popular amongst the swinging voters of Australia who determine the outcome of our elections - not to mention the huge number of voters who didn't support either of the LibLabs and voted informally...

You are desperate to try and confect some kind of victory out of the ashes of terrible defeat. You sound just like the ALP itself which still doesnt get why they were defeated. It is that kind of attitude which will already condemn them to another defeat in 3 years time.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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laborfornever

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #38 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 6:21pm

Not interested in the number of votes per party as a whole, but who one each seat before preferences.

For example.

Wayne Swann won his seat after preferences, however the lib candidate polled 10000 more votes, so in my book that would be a lib win, swann only won because of preferences.

Who won the most seats before preferences IE first past the post????

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Deborahmac09 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1619	Re: So who won before preferences were distributed?? Reply #39 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 6:28pm but we are not first past the post. We can choose to send a message that we are not happy by voting others before the main parties. Many of us choose to do this. If you don't like the way it is, get elected and change it!
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Sayonara

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #40 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 8:20pm

Most of you are carrying on like a bunch of bitches at a menstruation convention - "Your pain-killing pill is not as good as my pill" because your pill didn't work for me. Grin

The fact of the matter is that we have an hung parliament and that NO PARTY has won enough seats to govern in their own right. So it's a DRAW! Tongue

And for those who profess that the system doesn't work - it's the only one we have, and both sides of politics accept the reality of "that's the mechanisation of how it is done today"; and ALL of us have to accept that.

As for the independents - lets give them the respect they deserve to make a judgement for the betterment of Australia as a whole, and not speculate on which way they will go.

They ARE intelligent people who are quite capable of weighing up the consequences of either a good or bad decision, which is more than I can say about some of the comments from some of the people here. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 8:50pm by Sayonara »

Seen enough - Pity this forum software doesn't have the option to "Ignore" particular members threads and posts. Sad

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aussiefree2ride

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #41 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 8:47pm

Deborahmac09 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 6:28pm:

but we are not first past the post.
We can choose to send a message that we are not happy by voting others before the main parties. Many of us choose to do this.
If you don't like the way it is, get elected and change it!

He can`t get elected because of that pesky preferential system, silly. Kiss

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Sayonara

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #42 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 9:06pm

laborfornever wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 4:28pm:

Get rid of preferences and have a who get the most seats wins system.

Don't you realise that you ANYONE has the opportunity to change the preferences by simply changing the numbers.

So please give some respect to those who did what the "How to vote" card (as supplied by ALL parties) expected of them, and respect that - that is the outcome they wanted.

Everyone had the opportunity to change the voting structure - You're just pissed off that they didn't do it as you would like it too be.

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Seen enough - Pity this forum software doesn't have the option to "Ignore" particular members threads and posts. Sad

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longweekend58

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Re: So who won before preferences were distributed??
Reply #43 - Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 10:55pm

Sayonara wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 9:06pm:

laborfornever wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2010 at 4:28pm:

Get rid of preferences and have a who get the most seats wins system.

Don't you realise that you ANYONE has the opportunity to change the preferences by simply changing the numbers.

So please give some respect to those who did what the "How to vote" card (as supplied by ALL parties) expected of them, and respect that - that is the outcome they wanted.

Everyone had the opportunity to change the voting structure - You're just pissed off that they didn't do it as you would like it too be.

That is just SO naive I can hardly beleive it.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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