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Socio-Political Aspects (Read 4317 times)
perceptions_now
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Socio-Political Aspects
Aug 18th, 2010 at 1:50pm
 
Climate Skeptic Pat Michaels Admits On CNN Forty Percent of His Funding Comes From Oil Industry


Notorious climate skeptic Pat Michaels of the CATO Institute finally admitted openly on CNN this weekend that 40 percent of his funding comes from - wait for it - Big Oil.  

Michaels' admission that he receives around 40 percent - his guess - of his funding from Big Oil is important, because he is quoted widely in the media for his skepticism about manmade climate change.  As the ExxonSecrets profile of Pat Michaels sums up well, he is "possibly the most prolific and widely-quoted climate change skeptic scientist."



Story Link -
http://www.desmogblog.com/climate-skeptic-pat-michaels-admits-cnn-forty-percent-his-funding-comes-oil-industry
==============
I wonder how many other so called sceptics are funded by BIG-Oil, to 40% or more?
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« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:50pm by muso »  
 
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #1 - Aug 19th, 2010 at 8:08am
 
They'd have to pay me a lot more of the going rate 10 years ago, not that I'd want to ruin my reputation on telling lies anyway. Besides, I like to sleep at night.

The correspondance doesn't usually come in writing. That can be tracked too easily. It's all done on the phone. That way if it falls through, they can deny everything.
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #2 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 12:35pm
 
WHat do the Chinese think of AGW? They think it's a plot against them and other poor countries:

Carbon, whose neck is strangled?

“Carbon tax” and “carbon emissions reductions” will provide you with the answer.

Europe and America have already entered the post-industrialized age. Heavy pollution, and heavy reliance on coal, oil, and other fossil fuels, labour intensive industries, have mostly been passed on to the Developing Countries.

The Developed Countries’ “Carbon tax” and “carbon emissions reductions”, have become two of the most effective weapons with which to oppress Developing Countries. After donning the “moral overcoat”, they start to attack the Developing Countries.

The wishful thinking of the Developed Countries is to sustain the current international situation, they can not let the poor countries destroy their luxiourious lifestyle.

Up to this point, countries such as Europe and the USA have used “carbon tax” and “carbon emissions reductions” to claim the moral high ground, and are putting an enormous amount of pressure on China and other Developing Countries.

Most behind the “carbon tax” is the USA, this cannot be separated from America’s trade organizations. America has the largest trade deficit in the world, primarily imported low value added goods, like oil, coal, and some manufactured goods that it is heavily reliant on, its primary exports are high-tech products. These products’ reliance on oil, coal and related substances, is comparatively low. The American tertiary sector has been in surplus for a long time. If the “carbon tax” was imposed, Developing Countries’ products would lose competitiveness in the American marketplace. This is the best excuse possible for America to implement protectionism, which will also help America reduce the impact of the recent economic crisis.

The primary mover behind “carbon emissions reductions” is the European Union, the region where new energy resources technology is leagues ahead of the other countries in the world. They have already prepared every kind of rulebook for the “Low Carbon Age”; this is an arranged set of factors , or trap, waiting for Developing Countries to meander in.


http://libertygibbert.wordpress.com/rare-scribbling/locusts/low-carbon-plot/
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Re: Socio Political Aspects
Reply #3 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:30pm
 
Soren,

If you don't mind, I'll remove this from the thread on Climate Science, where we're specifically looking at the science as opposed to the sociopolitical aspect. Let me know if you want this as a new thread or to be attached somewhere else.

I guess Perceptions Now's post comes under the same category.
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« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:50pm by muso »  

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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #4 - Aug 22nd, 2010 at 4:37am
 
Soren lorenson, good to see the credibility of the authorities you cite in support in your posts isn't getting any better. They are, however, becoming more amusing: this guy even thinks Europe is a country.
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #5 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 2:06pm
 
As far as I'm concerned, Anthropogenic Climate Change  is a real issue, and I don't care who will ultimately address it.

As far as this issue is concerned, I'm happy to be apolitical as long as we work a transition towards renewable energy as quickly as possible.

If Adolf Hitler came back from the grave and supported large scale renewable energy, he'd have my support. If you think 6 million is a big number, the results of inaction could conjure up much bigger numbers.

When pitted against survival, freedom comes second.

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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #6 - Sep 29th, 2010 at 1:42pm
 
This probably belongs here. 

I think there is a huge gap between what professionals in any given field and what the public believes.

For example in advertising, how often do we see "Made from 100% natural ingredients" or something along those lines.

There is the implication that because something is 100% natural, it must be good for you, society or the environment.

So natural radiation from granite used to build houses is ok, whereas traces of radiation from nuclear power generation are not acceptable, even if they are 10 times less.

Ricin is a 100% pure natural plant extract. It's extracted from the castor oil plant. We could probably grow the castor oil plant totally organically without artificial fertilisers, but ricin would still be the most toxic substance known to man.

Maybe what I'm looking for is Utopia - a land where decisions were made on real risk rather than perceived risk - a place where we can dispense with the BS and just look at the naked unadulterated risk and make objective decisions based on that.

Until then, we'll continue to shun foods that have 3% fat in favour of foods that are 97% fat free.   Wink
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #7 - Oct 24th, 2010 at 8:25pm
 
To Get Rid Of Climate Change, Vote GOP


The more carbon that gets released into the atmosphere, the higher the average temperature rises.

That's a scientific fact.

Human activities, such as driving, flying, building and even turning on the lights, are the biggest contributor to the release of carbon.

That too, is a fact.

And yet the majority of Republicans running for House and Senate seats this year disagree.

Ken Buck, the GOP senate candidate in Colorado admits he's a climate change denier. Ron Johnson, who leads in the polls of Wisconsin's senatorial race, has said that "it is far more likely that [climate change] is just sunspot activity or something just in the geologic eons of time where we have changes in the climate."

And when Christine O'Donnell, the Republican candidate for Senate in Delaware, was asked whether human activity contributes to global warming, she said "I don't have an opinion on that."

Conservatives in Congress are turning against the science behind climate change. That means if Republicans take control this November, there's little hope for climate change policy.

Today's climate change denial trend isn't new. Years ago, when President George W. Bush was in the White House, scientific data on climate change was censored, and some scientists and top-level policy makers resigned in protest.

Scientific Findings Dismissed

For 10 years, Rick Piltz worked as a senior official for the Global Change Research Program — the main governmental office that gathers scientific data on climate change carried out by U.S. researchers.

"It was an office where the world of science collided with the world of climate politics," Piltz tells NPR's Guy Raz.

In the spring of 2001, Piltz was putting together a major report for Congress. The report would include clear evidence that tied carbon emissions to a rapid shift in global temperatures.

Piltz says his team was told "to delete the pages that summarized the findings of the IPCC report. To delete the material about the National Assessment of climate change impacts that had just come out."

The IPCC, or Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, is the international body that collects climate research from countries around the world. The National Assessment was a similar report that covered research from U.S.-based scientists. In both cases, the result was conclusive: Climate change was happening and human activity was speeding it up.

But the Bush White House didn't buy it.

"The expertise had come together to make pretty clear and compelling statements, and to say that you didn't believe it was to say that you didn't want to go along with the preponderance of scientific evidence," Piltz says.

The science was being politicized. Over the next four years, almost every report Piltz and his team put out was heavily edited. References to climate change or carbon emissions were altered or even deleted.

By 2005, Piltz couldn't take it anymore. He resigned and told his story to The New York Times.


A Conservative Who Spoke Up — And Paid The Price

It's a big deal for Republicans in Congress to say they believe that humans are heating the planet.

"People look at you like you've grown an extra head or something," says Rep. Bob Inglis, a Republican from South Carolina.

Inglis has represented South Carolina's 4th District for the last 12 years, but this one will be his last.

In June, Inglis lost the primary bid to Tea Party-backed Republican candidate Trey Gowdy, who accused him of not being conservative enough.

For the longest time, Inglis says, education, health care issues, and the environment have been Democratic issues, while taxes and national security have been Republican issues. Inglis says that's not right.

"As a Republican, I believe we should be talking about conservation. Because that's our heritage. If you go back to Teddy Roosevelt, that's who we are."

Inglis paid the price for speaking out about the importance of conservation and climate change.

Inglis also tried to connect the issue of climate change with the issue of national security. "We are dependent on a region of the world that doesn't like us very much for oil. We need to change the game there."

Inglis even stressed the need to hold the oil and coal companies accountable for their environmental practices.

Link -
http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/10/23/get-rid-climate-change-vote-gop/
================
It seems that scientists may not be the only ones bending the facts?

The OZ Liberals are now as enthusiastic about Climate Change, as the US Republicans!
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perceptions_now
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #8 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 3:21pm
 
GOP plans attacks on the EPA and climate scientists


If Republicans win control of the House, they plan to go after the Obama administration's environmental policies and the researchers who have offered evidence on global warming, whom they accuse of manipulating data.

If the GOP wins control of the House next week, senior congressional Republicans plan to launch a blistering attack on the Obama administration's environmental policies, as well as on scientists who link air pollution to climate change.

The GOP's fire will be concentrated especially on the administration's efforts to use the Environmental Protection Agency's authority over air pollution to tighten emissions controls on coal, oil and other carbon fuels that scientists say contribute to global warming.

The attack, according to senior Republicans, will seek to portray the EPA as abusing its authority and damaging the economy with needless government regulations.

In addition, GOP leaders say, they will focus on what they see as distortions of scientific evidence regarding climate change and on Obama administration efforts to achieve by executive rule-making what it failed to win from Congress.

Even if Republicans should win majorities in both the House and Senate, they would face difficulties putting their views into legislative form, since Senate Democrats could use the threat of filibuster to block bills just as the GOP did on climate and other issues during the past year.

Also, Obama could use his veto power.

But the GOP's plans for wide-ranging and sustained investigations by congressional committees could put the EPA and administration environmental policymakers on the defensive and create political pressures that could cause Obama to pull back on environmental issues as the 2012 presidential election draws closer.
Link -
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-epa-battle-ahead-20101030,0...
================
There is no need to wait until elections are won or lost!

If the truth is not already in the Public arena, on any issue, then it should be brought forward & rigorously tested, immediately.

In this instance, if there are real doubts about Climate Change, with substantive reasoning behind those doubts, then they should be tested, in appropriate arena's, not simply blocked by political numbers, in backroom deal!  

This is just more Political CRAP! Perhaps this thread should be moved to the "Politicians Suck" board?  
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #9 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 4:39pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 3:21pm:
GOP plans attacks on the EPA and climate scientists


If Republicans win control of the House, they plan to go after the Obama administration's environmental policies and the researchers who have offered evidence on global warming, whom they accuse of manipulating data.

If the GOP wins control of the House next week, senior congressional Republicans plan to launch a blistering attack on the Obama administration's environmental policies, as well as on scientists who link air pollution to climate change.

The GOP's fire will be concentrated especially on the administration's efforts to use the Environmental Protection Agency's authority over air pollution to tighten emissions controls on coal, oil and other carbon fuels that scientists say contribute to global warming.

The attack, according to senior Republicans, will seek to portray the EPA as abusing its authority and damaging the economy with needless government regulations.

In addition, GOP leaders say, they will focus on what they see as distortions of scientific evidence regarding climate change and on Obama administration efforts to achieve by executive rule-making what it failed to win from Congress.

Even if Republicans should win majorities in both the House and Senate, they would face difficulties putting their views into legislative form, since Senate Democrats could use the threat of filibuster to block bills just as the GOP did on climate and other issues during the past year.

Also, Obama could use his veto power.

But the GOP's plans for wide-ranging and sustained investigations by congressional committees could put the EPA and administration environmental policymakers on the defensive and create political pressures that could cause Obama to pull back on environmental issues as the 2012 presidential election draws closer.
Link -
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-epa-battle-ahead-20101030,0...
================
There is no need to wait until elections are won or lost!

If the truth is not already in the Public arena, on any issue, then it should be brought forward & rigorously tested, immediately.

In this instance, if there are real doubts about Climate Change, with substantive reasoning behind those doubts, then they should be tested, in appropriate arena's, not simply blocked by political numbers, in backroom deal!  This is just more Political CRAP! Perhaps this thread should be moved to the "Politicians Suck" board?  



So then you think that Australia should hold a Royal Commission on AGW???
Cool....
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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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perceptions_now
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #10 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 8:52pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 4:39pm:
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 3:21pm:
GOP plans attacks on the EPA and climate scientists


If Republicans win control of the House, they plan to go after the Obama administration's environmental policies and the researchers who have offered evidence on global warming, whom they accuse of manipulating data.

If the GOP wins control of the House next week, senior congressional Republicans plan to launch a blistering attack on the Obama administration's environmental policies, as well as on scientists who link air pollution to climate change.

The GOP's fire will be concentrated especially on the administration's efforts to use the Environmental Protection Agency's authority over air pollution to tighten emissions controls on coal, oil and other carbon fuels that scientists say contribute to global warming.

The attack, according to senior Republicans, will seek to portray the EPA as abusing its authority and damaging the economy with needless government regulations.

In addition, GOP leaders say, they will focus on what they see as distortions of scientific evidence regarding climate change and on Obama administration efforts to achieve by executive rule-making what it failed to win from Congress.

Even if Republicans should win majorities in both the House and Senate, they would face difficulties putting their views into legislative form, since Senate Democrats could use the threat of filibuster to block bills just as the GOP did on climate and other issues during the past year.

Also, Obama could use his veto power.

But the GOP's plans for wide-ranging and sustained investigations by congressional committees could put the EPA and administration environmental policymakers on the defensive and create political pressures that could cause Obama to pull back on environmental issues as the 2012 presidential election draws closer.
Link -
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-epa-battle-ahead-20101030,0...
================
There is no need to wait until elections are won or lost!

If the truth is not already in the Public arena, on any issue, then it should be brought forward & rigorously tested, immediately.

In this instance, if there are real doubts about Climate Change, with substantive reasoning behind those doubts, then they should be tested, in appropriate arena's, not simply blocked by political numbers, in backroom deal!  This is just more Political CRAP! Perhaps this thread should be moved to the "Politicians Suck" board?  



So then you think that Australia should hold a Royal Commission on AGW???
Cool....


I have no problems with that!

But, I suggest that neither major party is likely to put their hands up & agree. Politicians, particularly those from the major party's like to know the final outcomes of any enquiry, prior to the enquiry starting.

That's just not possible in this particular issues, so I can not see either the Libs & the Labs agreeing to an OPEN enquiry, be it Royal Commission or by any other name!

That said, do you think the Republicans would hold an enquiry?
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perceptions_now
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #11 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 8:53pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 8:52pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 4:39pm:
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 3:21pm:
GOP plans attacks on the EPA and climate scientists


If Republicans win control of the House, they plan to go after the Obama administration's environmental policies and the researchers who have offered evidence on global warming, whom they accuse of manipulating data.

If the GOP wins control of the House next week, senior congressional Republicans plan to launch a blistering attack on the Obama administration's environmental policies, as well as on scientists who link air pollution to climate change.

The GOP's fire will be concentrated especially on the administration's efforts to use the Environmental Protection Agency's authority over air pollution to tighten emissions controls on coal, oil and other carbon fuels that scientists say contribute to global warming.

The attack, according to senior Republicans, will seek to portray the EPA as abusing its authority and damaging the economy with needless government regulations.

In addition, GOP leaders say, they will focus on what they see as distortions of scientific evidence regarding climate change and on Obama administration efforts to achieve by executive rule-making what it failed to win from Congress.

Even if Republicans should win majorities in both the House and Senate, they would face difficulties putting their views into legislative form, since Senate Democrats could use the threat of filibuster to block bills just as the GOP did on climate and other issues during the past year.

Also, Obama could use his veto power.

But the GOP's plans for wide-ranging and sustained investigations by congressional committees could put the EPA and administration environmental policymakers on the defensive and create political pressures that could cause Obama to pull back on environmental issues as the 2012 presidential election draws closer.
Link -
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-epa-battle-ahead-20101030,0...
================
There is no need to wait until elections are won or lost!

If the truth is not already in the Public arena, on any issue, then it should be brought forward & rigorously tested, immediately.

In this instance, if there are real doubts about Climate Change, with substantive reasoning behind those doubts, then they should be tested, in appropriate arena's, not simply blocked by political numbers, in backroom deal!  This is just more Political CRAP! Perhaps this thread should be moved to the "Politicians Suck" board?  



So then you think that Australia should hold a Royal Commission on AGW???
Cool....


I have no problems with that!

But, I suggest that neither major party is likely to put their hands up & agree. Politicians, particularly those from the major party's like to know the final outcomes of any enquiry, prior to the enquiry starting.

That's just not possible in this particular issues, so I can not see either the Libs & the Labs agreeing to an OPEN enquiry, be it Royal Commission or by any other name!

That said, do you think the Republicans or Democrats, would hold an OPEN enquiry?

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gizmo_2655
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #12 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 9:05pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 8:53pm:
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 8:52pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 4:39pm:
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 3:21pm:
GOP plans attacks on the EPA and climate scientists


If Republicans win control of the House, they plan to go after the Obama administration's environmental policies and the researchers who have offered evidence on global warming, whom they accuse of manipulating data.

If the GOP wins control of the House next week, senior congressional Republicans plan to launch a blistering attack on the Obama administration's environmental policies, as well as on scientists who link air pollution to climate change.

The GOP's fire will be concentrated especially on the administration's efforts to use the Environmental Protection Agency's authority over air pollution to tighten emissions controls on coal, oil and other carbon fuels that scientists say contribute to global warming.

The attack, according to senior Republicans, will seek to portray the EPA as abusing its authority and damaging the economy with needless government regulations.

In addition, GOP leaders say, they will focus on what they see as distortions of scientific evidence regarding climate change and on Obama administration efforts to achieve by executive rule-making what it failed to win from Congress.

Even if Republicans should win majorities in both the House and Senate, they would face difficulties putting their views into legislative form, since Senate Democrats could use the threat of filibuster to block bills just as the GOP did on climate and other issues during the past year.

Also, Obama could use his veto power.

But the GOP's plans for wide-ranging and sustained investigations by congressional committees could put the EPA and administration environmental policymakers on the defensive and create political pressures that could cause Obama to pull back on environmental issues as the 2012 presidential election draws closer.
Link -
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-epa-battle-ahead-20101030,0...
================
There is no need to wait until elections are won or lost!

If the truth is not already in the Public arena, on any issue, then it should be brought forward & rigorously tested, immediately.

In this instance, if there are real doubts about Climate Change, with substantive reasoning behind those doubts, then they should be tested, in appropriate arena's, not simply blocked by political numbers, in backroom deal!  This is just more Political CRAP! Perhaps this thread should be moved to the "Politicians Suck" board?  



So then you think that Australia should hold a Royal Commission on AGW???
Cool....


I have no problems with that!

But, I suggest that neither major party is likely to put their hands up & agree. Politicians, particularly those from the major party's like to know the final outcomes of any enquiry, prior to the enquiry starting.

That's just not possible in this particular issues, so I can not see either the Libs & the Labs agreeing to an OPEN enquiry, be it Royal Commission or by any other name!

That said, do you think the Republicans or Democrats, would hold an OPEN enquiry?



Probably about as likely as Lib/Lab/Greens holding one....
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #13 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 11:17am
 
It would be a bit like holding a Royal Commission on the law of gravity.
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #14 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 5:37pm
 
muso wrote on Oct 31st, 2010 at 11:17am:
It would be a bit like holding a Royal Commission on the law of gravity.


Muso, Muso, Muso!

You should know, there is no such thing as gravity!

Or, at least, that's what Popiticians, Bankers & the Establishment think.

Exponential Growth means that things MUST always go up, they can't come down?

Now that sounds like a fine fairy story?!
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Reply #15 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 7:22pm
 
Oil Firms Bankroll Calif. Climate-Change Measure


In California, voters will decide Tuesday whether to put the state's landmark climate-change law on hold until the jobless rate there goes down.

The ballot measure known as Proposition 23 is being bankrolled mostly by oil companies. Supporters aren't saying that global warming is a good thing — or that it doesn't exist. Their arguments have mainly been about economic effects.

The unemployment rate in California is more than 12 percent right now, and that's what seems to worry the woman in one ad in favor of the proposition:
"I want to do my part on global warming," she says. "All yes on 23 says is let's wait until people are back to work and we can afford it. Yes on 23 — it's common sense."
And here's another bit of common sense, says Anita Mangels, communications director for Yes on 23: "California acting alone can't do anything to reduce global warming."

Bill Day, a spokesman for Texas-based Valero Energy, says it would definitely hit oil refiners in the wallet.

Valero has a couple of refineries and lots of gas stations in California, and the company has contributed about half of the roughly $10 million behind the Proposition 23 campaign.

"We thought Californians deserved a chance to vote. They can decide whether this is a good time to implement these measures or not," Day says.
Link -
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130982095
==============
You can generally rely on humanity, to come doen on the side of self interest?

The vote today, in California, for proposition 23 could have significant ramifications, as it may provide an indicator as to just how deep self interest may go!  
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Reply #16 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 8:36am
 
That's why we need prosperity. I've seen what happens to the environment where the economy has gone down the tubes.

Sub Saharan Africa has a waste management strategy and a wildlife conservation strategy.

The real waste management management strategy is - dump it anywhere, burnt it.... etc.

The wildlife conservation strategy is - If it's alive, kill it, smoke it  and sell it to passing motorists for as much as you can get.

The EPA response is to send a silly little girl straight out of University who will wring her hands a lot, come up with a prescriptive solution that makes things worse and not bother to follow it up because she's under resourced.

She might send her superior, and if there is overseas money involved, he'll try to get his cut, then ignore the problem.
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #17 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 8:23am
 
Californians Reject Proposal To Suspend Climate Law


SAN FRANCISCO (Dow Jones)--California voters defeated a proposal to suspend the state's climate law, delivering a victory to environmental groups and the governor and a blow to oil refiners who backed the measure.

The ballot initiative, called Proposition 23, was rejected by 61.2% of the voters, compared with 38.8% who voted in favor, according to the California Secretary of State's office.

"This was a huge, huge victory for me, a huge victory for the state of California, for the environment, for green technology, for jobs," Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger told reporters in a conference call
Link -
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101103-723776.html
=============
Hope, there still is!
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Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #18 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 12:47pm
 
These people who put forward Proposition 23 didn't have the guts to do what had to be done. They were girly men  Cool

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Australian Politics

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Perth  WA
Gender: male
Re: Socio-Political Aspects
Reply #19 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 12:58pm
 
muso wrote on Nov 5th, 2010 at 12:47pm:
These people who put forward Proposition 23 didn't have the guts to do what had to be done. They were girly men  Cool



Yes, Arnie?
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