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An Apple A Day Keeps The Doctor Away. (Read 2550 times)
gizmo_2655
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Re: An Apple A Day Keeps The Doctor Away.
Reply #15 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 1:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 10th, 2010 at 1:03pm:
Quote:
And I was against the importation of Californian frozen orange juice concentrate........and look at the result of that...


Why were you against it again?

Quote:
Why is it so wrong to want to keep viable, profitable industry safe?


Nothing wrong with that. It's when people start confusing the protection of unviable industry against competition and protection against imported disease that you need to look closely at the motive. That's what the WTO is doing.


I was against the concentrate import because it was unfair competition

The subsidies to the citrus industry in california (and to agriculture in general in the US) are such that the Australian citrus growers had no hope of competing fairly with the import....
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: An Apple A Day Keeps The Doctor Away.
Reply #16 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 1:17pm
 
So American taxpayers are subsidising our brekky juice? Sounds like a good deal to me - for Aussies. Certainly not a good reason to respond with even more protectionism.

The rational way to deal with the problem is to campaign for a level playing field, not look for every excuse to try to tilt the field in our favour. Otherwise you get everyone doing that and you all you end up doing is destrying free trade. Picking oranges is a poor consolation for loosing a real job.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: An Apple A Day Keeps The Doctor Away.
Reply #17 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 1:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 10th, 2010 at 1:17pm:
So American taxpayers are subsidising our brekky juice? Sounds like a good deal to me - for Aussies. Certainly not a good reason to respond with even more protectionism.

The rational way to deal with the problem is to campaign for a level playing field, not look for every excuse to try to tilt the field in our favour. Otherwise you get everyone doing that and you all you end up doing is destrying free trade. Picking oranges is a poor consolation for loosing a real job.


Is also a good deal for all the citrus farmers who've lost their homes and livelyhoods???

The basic idea behind trade should be: I have too much wheat, and need corn.....you have too much corn and want wheat.....I'll swap you wheat for corn..
Correct?

Does the idea of "We'll burn ALL our wheat farms and then by wheat from YOU...make any sense????

If the 'playing field' had been level, then the FTA with the US would have been ok.....
But since the US agriculture gets 33% of it's income from subsidies and the Aus agriculture gets 0% of it's income from subsidies..
Then the frozen concentrate had been paid for before the fruit was sold to the manufacture and was effectively free......How can some poor orange grower in Leeton or Griffith compete fairly with THAT???

Protectionism isn't a bad thing, in itself.....ok it can be carried too far sometimes (if it's used to artifically prop up a non-viable industry)....but it's NOT a reason to destroy a perfectly viable industry, just so you can say 'Look, we're NOT being 'protectionist'.....
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: An Apple A Day Keeps The Doctor Away.
Reply #18 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 1:39pm
 
Quote:
and the Aus agriculture gets 0% of it's income from subsidies


Ever heard of 'drought relief'. Or maybe that isn't a subsidy because farmers can't be expected to factor droughts into their business plan....

Quote:
Protectionism isn't a bad thing, in itself.....ok it can be carried too far sometimes (if it's used to artifically prop up a non-viable industry)....but it's NOT a reason to destroy a perfectly viable industry, just so you can say 'Look, we're NOT being 'protectionist'.....


A lot of it is a bad idea. So is a little. Undermining free trade is always a bad idea. It doesn't just become a bad idea when you reach a certain level.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: An Apple A Day Keeps The Doctor Away.
Reply #19 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 2:59pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 10th, 2010 at 1:39pm:
Quote:
and the Aus agriculture gets 0% of it's income from subsidies


Ever heard of 'drought relief'. Or maybe that isn't a subsidy because farmers can't be expected to factor droughts into their business plan....

Quote:
Protectionism isn't a bad thing, in itself.....ok it can be carried too far sometimes (if it's used to artifically prop up a non-viable industry)....but it's NOT a reason to destroy a perfectly viable industry, just so you can say 'Look, we're NOT being 'protectionist'.....


A lot of it is a bad idea. So is a little. Undermining free trade is always a bad idea. It doesn't just become a bad idea when you reach a certain level.



So what you're saying is that we should just give the arse to ALL the quarantine regulations that Australia has instigated in the last 150-200 years, because those quarantine protections might 'interfer' with 'Free Trade'?????
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: An Apple A Day Keeps The Doctor Away.
Reply #20 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 3:56pm
 
No. Merely that we should limit it to genuine quarantine issues and not abuse it for back door protectionism. This is the approach the WTO is taking also.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: An Apple A Day Keeps The Doctor Away.
Reply #21 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 4:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 10th, 2010 at 3:56pm:
No. Merely that we should limit it to genuine quarantine issues and not abuse it for back door protectionism. This is the approach the WTO is taking also.



And fireblight IS a genuine quarantine issue...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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