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Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty (Read 14901 times)
gizmo_2655
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #15 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:26pm
 
Combining DNA with the rest of the evidence, pretty much removes ALL doubt...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Deborahmac09
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #16 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:32pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:06pm:
Deborahmac09 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 5:52pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 5:47pm:
Are YOU prepared to be responsible for the 10,20 or 30 deaths, that would result from allowing the 10 guilty men to go free?????


No? well then it's far better to kill 1 innocent man than to allow 10 guilty one to go free.....


Yeah after all, what is another murdered victim! Who seeks justice for them?



Well I think it's far less of a 'crime' to kill Joe Bloggs,by mistake,  than it is to release John Wayne Gacey, William Bonin and Jeffrey Dahmer.....


disagree.
I am not saying that they should be released. Some people should never be realised.
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athos
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #17 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:33pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 5:10pm:
athos wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 4:54pm:
DNA tests tell us half of all death row inmates in America are innocent


In 1997, Illinois halted executions when DNA testing found 52% of their deathrow inmates were innocent.
The people who were exhonorated are: Rolando Cruz, Alejandro Hernandez, Verneal Jimerson, Dennis Williams, Joseph Burrows, Gary Gauger, Carl Lawson, Perry Cobb, Darby Tillis.
In Texas, the following people were found innocent AFTER execution. Texas still executes prisoners.
Frank Basil McFarland was executed for a rape/murder despite multiple inconsistencies in the state’s case, altered evidence, purchased and coerced testimony, and suppressed evidence of guilt. After execcution, he was found innocent by DNA testing.
Troy Farris was convicted of the murder of a police officer. DNA proved he was innocent. Gov. George W Bush deny clemency. Troy Farris was execcuted.
Jerry Lee Hogue was convicted of an arson/murder. Another individual later admited to the crime, but was denied further investigation by Gov. Bush. Mr Hogue was execcuted.
David Stoker was convicted of capital murder based on the testimony of three witnesses, who later recanted their testimony. Doubts aside, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Stoker.
Richard Wayne Jones, was convicted of a murder despite strong evidence that his sister’s boyfriend had committed it. DNA testing was denied by Gov. Bush, and approved his execution.
Willie Williams and Joseph Nichols both shot at their murder victim, but only one hit him. In order to execute both, Texas argued that each had killed the man; in one trial, the state argued that Mr. Williams had shot the victim and Mr. Nichols had missed, and in the next trial, the state argued that Mr. Nichols had shot the victim and Mr. Williams had missed. Both were convicted of capital murder. Mr. Williams was executed by Gov. Bush; Mr. Nichols is still on death row.
James Lee Beathard was convicted of capital murder based on the testimony of the admitted murderer, Gene Hathorn. Still, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Beathard, though he was innovent.
Gary Graham was convicted of capital murder on the basis of one eyewitness’s testimony. Despite DNA evidence that provees otherwise, Mr. Graham was executed by Gov. Bush.
David Wayne Spence was convicted of capital murder although no physical evidence linked him to the crime and almost every witness against him admitted that his or her testimony had been purchased or coerced. DNA evidence says that another man had committed the triple murder. Nevertheless, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Spence.
Cost
A study released on March 6, 2008 found that in USA taxpayers have paid at least $37.2 million for each of execution both innocent and guilty. Can you believe tax payers are willing to pay that much money to kill an innocent person? pdf link      



And??...
It's better to make an occasion mistake by executing the wrong man, than it is to remove the 'threat' of the death penalty.....

Mistakes are very tragic, YES...but the death penalty stops enough crimes to still make it justified....


Is 50% occasional mistake?
I think you should go back to school and study basics of statistics again.

This would be the same if doctors apply medicine that kills half patients, is it allowed.
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« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:45pm by athos »  

Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #18 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:36pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:25pm:
Remember the Skaf Brothers????

Rape has never attracted the death penalty, unless of course your black & it's a white women & it's before about 1970 in southern USA.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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athos
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #19 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:43pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:25pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:19pm:
life_goes_on - I agree entirely.

those committing a crime that brings the death penalty have already passed the point of no return.
They kill more readily.

if a defendant is black and illiterate they are MUCH more likely to face the electric chair.
if a white woman is the victim, they are pretty much gone gone

and, who are we, to take anothers life ?



'who are we, to take anothers life'????

WE are the society that THEY agreed to live IN....


If you were born in that society you didn't agree to live there.
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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #20 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:44pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:36pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:25pm:
Remember the Skaf Brothers????

Rape has never attracted the death penalty, unless of course your black & it's a white women & it's before about 1970 in southern USA.


Yes, but in the case of the Skaf brothers..the sentence went from 55 years, to 38 years and is now down to about 28 years....

A 'long' jail sentence , no longer means a long jail sentence...

Time off for 'good behaviour means that instead of 55 years, this prick could be out in 10-15 years.....Are you prepared to 'bet' that he won't reoffend????
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Life_goes_on
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #21 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:49pm
 
Quote:
Time off for 'good behaviour means that...


Time off for good behaviour was abolished around 20 years ago in NSW.
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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #22 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 7:11pm
 

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:49pm:
Quote:
Time off for 'good behaviour means that...


Time off for good behaviour was abolished around 20 years ago in NSW.



Yeah right...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #23 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 7:15pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:44pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:36pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:25pm:
Remember the Skaf Brothers????

Rape has never attracted the death penalty, unless of course your black & it's a white women & it's before about 1970 in southern USA.


Yes, but in the case of the Skaf brothers..the sentence went from 55 years, to 38 years and is now down to about 28 years....

A 'long' jail sentence , no longer means a long jail sentence...

Time off for 'good behaviour means that instead of 55 years, this prick could be out in 10-15 years.....Are you prepared to 'bet' that he won't reoffend????

No argument there gizmo, the sentance should be the sentance.
And frankly I think we should go back to "HARD TIME" road gangs,etc.
The mayor in Texas has the right idea I'll try and find the article.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #24 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 7:23pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 7:15pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:44pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:36pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:25pm:
Remember the Skaf Brothers????

Rape has never attracted the death penalty, unless of course your black & it's a white women & it's before about 1970 in southern USA.


Yes, but in the case of the Skaf brothers..the sentence went from 55 years, to 38 years and is now down to about 28 years....

A 'long' jail sentence , no longer means a long jail sentence...

Time off for 'good behaviour means that instead of 55 years, this prick could be out in 10-15 years.....Are you prepared to 'bet' that he won't reoffend????

No argument there gizmo, the sentance should be the sentance.
And frankly I think we should go back to "HARD TIME" road gangs,etc.
The mayor in Texas has the right idea I'll try and find the article.

Nah cant find it but from memory, the inmates wore pink, lived in tents, did hard physical labor and because he was prevented from banning TV he made sure the only channels they watch are the weather channel and disney. Grin
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
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Life_goes_on
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #25 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 7:23pm
 
The NSW Sentencing Act 1989 abolished remissions.

Since then a court must specify a minimum non-parole period when sentencing. This period can not be reduced due to "good behaviour".
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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #26 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 7:40pm
 
Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 7:23pm:
The NSW Sentencing Act 1989 abolished remissions.

Since then a court must specify a minimum non-parole period when sentencing. This period can not be reduced due to "good behaviour".



Yes and it's the 'non-parole' period that I have aproblem with...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #27 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 7:42pm
 
athos wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:33pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 5:10pm:
athos wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 4:54pm:
DNA tests tell us half of all death row inmates in America are innocent


In 1997, Illinois halted executions when DNA testing found 52% of their deathrow inmates were innocent.
The people who were exhonorated are: Rolando Cruz, Alejandro Hernandez, Verneal Jimerson, Dennis Williams, Joseph Burrows, Gary Gauger, Carl Lawson, Perry Cobb, Darby Tillis.
In Texas, the following people were found innocent AFTER execution. Texas still executes prisoners.
Frank Basil McFarland was executed for a rape/murder despite multiple inconsistencies in the state’s case, altered evidence, purchased and coerced testimony, and suppressed evidence of guilt. After execcution, he was found innocent by DNA testing.
Troy Farris was convicted of the murder of a police officer. DNA proved he was innocent. Gov. George W Bush deny clemency. Troy Farris was execcuted.
Jerry Lee Hogue was convicted of an arson/murder. Another individual later admited to the crime, but was denied further investigation by Gov. Bush. Mr Hogue was execcuted.
David Stoker was convicted of capital murder based on the testimony of three witnesses, who later recanted their testimony. Doubts aside, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Stoker.
Richard Wayne Jones, was convicted of a murder despite strong evidence that his sister’s boyfriend had committed it. DNA testing was denied by Gov. Bush, and approved his execution.
Willie Williams and Joseph Nichols both shot at their murder victim, but only one hit him. In order to execute both, Texas argued that each had killed the man; in one trial, the state argued that Mr. Williams had shot the victim and Mr. Nichols had missed, and in the next trial, the state argued that Mr. Nichols had shot the victim and Mr. Williams had missed. Both were convicted of capital murder. Mr. Williams was executed by Gov. Bush; Mr. Nichols is still on death row.
James Lee Beathard was convicted of capital murder based on the testimony of the admitted murderer, Gene Hathorn. Still, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Beathard, though he was innovent.
Gary Graham was convicted of capital murder on the basis of one eyewitness’s testimony. Despite DNA evidence that provees otherwise, Mr. Graham was executed by Gov. Bush.
David Wayne Spence was convicted of capital murder although no physical evidence linked him to the crime and almost every witness against him admitted that his or her testimony had been purchased or coerced. DNA evidence says that another man had committed the triple murder. Nevertheless, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Spence.
Cost
A study released on March 6, 2008 found that in USA taxpayers have paid at least $37.2 million for each of execution both innocent and guilty. Can you believe tax payers are willing to pay that much money to kill an innocent person? pdf link      



And??...
It's better to make an occasion mistake by executing the wrong man, than it is to remove the 'threat' of the death penalty.....

Mistakes are very tragic, YES...but the death penalty stops enough crimes to still make it justified....


Is 50% occasional mistake?
I think you should go back to school and study basics of statistics again.

This would be the same if doctors apply medicine that kills half patients, is it allowed.



No 50% is a serious problem.....BUT using DNA will reduce the % to less than 1%...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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aussiefree2ride
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #28 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 9:28pm
 
This thread is really an argument for the need of a better legal system,  it`s not a valid argument against the DP.
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freediver
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Re: Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty
Reply #29 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 9:38pm
 
So if the world was perfect we wouldn't have any problems?
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