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Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS (Read 11495 times)
Cyberman
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #75 - Jul 25th, 2010 at 10:41pm
 
Considering the waste and the last 3 years, I would say that the coalition are the lesser evil.

Maybe a female face is enough to get you through the day when Australia goes through hell on earth because of your 'lesser evil'

I know I will sleep soundly, whereas you will have the excuse "oh, I voted for the Greens'  Roll Eyes
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #76 - Jul 25th, 2010 at 10:51pm
 
And that's the beauty of where we live, you can vote your way & I can vote mine but in the end we can both go home and to the ballot box without the fear of persecution for that vote. Wink
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Cyberman
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #77 - Jul 25th, 2010 at 10:56pm
 
But here, I get to ridicule you because of your poor choice.

It really is a wonderful world
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #78 - Jul 25th, 2010 at 11:03pm
 
Cyberman wrote on Jul 25th, 2010 at 10:56pm:
But here, I get to ridicule you because of your poor choice.

It really is a wonderful world

Grin Grin Grin
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Cyberman
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #79 - Jul 25th, 2010 at 11:11pm
 
I like you dsmithy. At least you have the courage of your convictions and don't try to hide behind maladjusted statements with the inability to back them up.

I appreciate that...iiiii



...you are not good cannon fodder  Wink
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muso
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #80 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 9:30am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 25th, 2010 at 5:56pm:
muso wrote on Jul 25th, 2010 at 5:33pm:
It would make more sense to have a carbon tax.  Europe demonstrated how easy it was for corporations to weasel out of an ETS. As a result, Kyoto accomplished nothing. The world went backwards.

If necessary, keep the Emissions Intensive Trade Exposed  scheme , and gradually phase it out as renewable energy becomes cheaper.

The emphasis needs to be on making renewable energy cheaper to maximise the uptake.


No muso, it makes MORE sense to have an incentive system to 'encourage' the change over to renewable energies.....

After all 'You catch more flys with honey than with vinegar'....

Bonuses work far better than penalties...


Nobody likes taxes, but you have to get the money for your incentive scheme from somewhere. If you put a carbon tax on coal production (most of which goes overseas anyway) then use the proceeds to fund solar thermal projects, isn't that what we'd be doing anyway? Of course that would make coal-fired power generation more expensive, and geothermal/ solar etc cheaper.
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muso
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #81 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 9:32am
 
Cyberman wrote on Jul 25th, 2010 at 10:08pm:
Why should we hamstring our industry when our emissions are a minute fraction of total emissions?


I'd be in favour of taxing our emissions in proportion to that minute fraction of total global emissions.  Wink
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Cyberman
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #82 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 9:41am
 
Which would only make sense if you were also able to tax the rest
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Big Donger
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #83 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 10:41am
 
laborfornever wrote on Jul 25th, 2010 at 9:44am:
This is where your blinkere din your perfect world.

The only real thing that you can cut consumption is electricity.

So with everything else you need to survive how do you cut your food consumption, how does a company that uses products from a range of ETS effected companies charge less or the same for its product when it is paying more for its goods. Think house construction car construction.

A mining company just got drilled with Gillards mining tax, they will now be liable for ETS as very energy intense to mine and transport ore. China pays more for its ore, meaning our car manafacturers pay more for the processed ore. How do I cut my consumption on that??

How much will electrical companents go up as many have mined minerals in them, again dug up by mining companies now paying and ETS passed onto the end consumer.

That glass table just cost more because turning sand into glass is a massively energy intense process so all you glass goods go up, that includes windows in houses which I forgot to include earlier.

everything you touch or wear will go up, farmers who produce cotton will pay more to produce sell for more to china who charge more to our importers who yes will charge more to the consumer??


There are so many factors that you seem to overlook, wether your a bit simple or just trying to push labor policy I don't know. But rest assured an ETS will hammer middle and low income earners, send uncompetitive industry offshore, cost jobs force famillies into bankruptcy have households living in the street.

is that the country you want to live in??? All to save a .4% reduction in carbon??? it is just illogical.


You're missing the point. A tax on carbon encourages investment in low emissions technology. This is the market mechanism. It is designed to create a shift to sustainable technology, a shift that will create new business opportunities across the board.

I know many farmers are keen for an ETS to get going, as they will be able to get in on the market for carbon offsets.

Planting a few trees around the place and government investment in renewables is a good start, but it won't provide a market incentive to create the shift needed.
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #84 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 6:59pm
 
Quote:
Nobody likes taxes, but you have to get the money for your incentive scheme from somewhere.


That is not the point of a tax on carbon. The tax itself is the goal. The funds raised should be used to reduce other taxes, not wasted.
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muso
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #85 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 9:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 27th, 2010 at 6:59pm:
Quote:
Nobody likes taxes, but you have to get the money for your incentive scheme from somewhere.


That is not the point of a tax on carbon. The tax itself is the goal. The funds raised should be used to reduce other taxes, not wasted.


Using some of that tax to make sustainable energy generation more competitive while it's scaled up, is not a waste.
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freediver
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Re: Enlighten me, Why do you want an ETS
Reply #86 - Jul 28th, 2010 at 9:02pm
 
It is if you end up subsidising energy.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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