Australian Politics Forum - Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?

athos

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Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?
Jul 13^th, 2010 at 10:34am

Child sex abuse allegations against Roman Catholic priests have caused anger in many countries across the globe. In some, opinion polls suggest that almost a significant number of Catholics have considered leaving the Church since the unfolding of the scandals recently.

And while the world’s biggest church faces a series of pedophilia scandals, some observers, including senior figures from inside the Catholic, have begun to ask whether the tradition of celibacy in the priesthood has contributed to child abuse
In spite of overwhelming evidence catholic church still denies charges of widespread child and youth sexual abuse by priests

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muso

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Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?
Reply #1 - Jul 13^th, 2010 at 10:57am

No. It's breaking celibacy that can lead to child abuse.

Seriously though, the priesthood is a convenient place for pedophiles to lurk. People who are sexually frustrated are more likely to go in search of their fantasies (mostly adult women or men) rather than take it out on kids.

As Bob Dyland said:

Quote:

People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent.
Bob Dylan

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse? Reply #2 - Jul 13^th, 2010 at 10:59am 'Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?' My gut-feeling is that it does - especially in the context of the anally-retentive practice of other counter-intuitive and anti-social doctrines of the Catholic church...
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Equitist

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Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?
Reply #3 - Jul 13^th, 2010 at 11:00am

Quote:

'Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?'

My gut-feeling is that it does - especially in the context of the anally-retentive practice of other counter-intuitive and anti-social doctrines of the Catholic church...

Ooops, I lost wireless whilst my comfuser was on a go-slow so I went back/forwards and refreshed before clicking on post - and the overall result was a double post.

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« Last Edit: Jul 13^th, 2010 at 11:05am by Equitist »

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse? Reply #4 - Jul 13^th, 2010 at 11:09am muso wrote on Jul 13^th, 2010 at 10:57am: As Bob Dyland said: Quote: People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. Bob Dylan Unfortunately, Catholics actively promote the self-reinforcing cycle, of comfortably 'sinning' in the knowledge that one can always repent...
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse? Reply #5 - Jul 13^th, 2010 at 1:34pm What's the stats on randy Buddhist monk? They are supposed to be celibate.
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Hlysnan Senior Member Offline Riht, Fr[ch275]od[ch333]m, Wærscipe Posts: 449 Burwood Gender:	Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse? Reply #6 - Jul 14^th, 2010 at 1:52pm Celibacy does not contribute to child abuse. There are similar rates of abuse in Protestant churches (where celibacy is not required). It is my belief that abusers use the church as a pathway to gain access to children.
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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse? Reply #7 - Jul 14^th, 2010 at 5:50pm Interesting points, Jeimi and Soren...I would be curious to know the stats.... If only, religious organisations weren't so rigorous in burying the facts - and protecting offenders, eh!?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49920 At my desk.	Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse? Reply #8 - Jul 14^th, 2010 at 8:08pm I don't think it does. I think it is just the association fallacy. I don't see how it would change their sexual proclivities. You don't see people coming back from extended periods of isolation drooling over children. I suspect that people go there to hide from themselves but it doesn't work.
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Deborahmac09 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1619	Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse? Reply #9 - Jul 14^th, 2010 at 8:26pm Nope, not at all. If you are cracked like that, it will not matter whether you are celibate or married.
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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?
Reply #10 - Jul 15^th, 2010 at 12:43am

Agree with the others. Celibacy is not an excuse to molest children.
In fact it is more further from the truth.
Celibacy is Non-Sexual (and that includes self-sex)
Some people get confused by thinking that if they must abstain from sex with the opposite sex, then it is ok to have sex with someone of the same sex.
I feel sorry for the Catholic Priests who do stick to the very hard regime of Celibacy in the face of those Priests who abuse their positions and all the Gays who now exploit/blame such things as Catholicism to justify their existence.
I think the Australian Military and Fireries are recent 'buggerers' to join the list of young recruits/apprentices being molested.
I don't agree with Homosexuality as much as I don't agree with Redneck behaviour in the name of violence.

Celibacy is an incredible hard act to follow. Even the Egyptian Pharoahs failed in their 'godlike' privaledge at being placed at the top of the Pyramid in that society, by incestuous behaviour and breedings.

Celibacy is a worthy existence, that I have found upon many occasions, to really make a difference in my life.
Its amazing how women and people in general automatically think you are Gay, because you are not interested in having sex with a woman, any woman. I tend to think its the Gold-Digging skanks who yell "Gay" the loudest if they are rejected.

Celibacy is the By-Product and Pathway to an existence at the Top of the Pyramid, because in essence, you are the 'one' person there. In the end, you are indeed alone. Unlike the 'Breeders' way down there at the base of the Pyramid that are as numerous as the stones that make up the foundation.
Celibacy is the last refuge of the Man who seeks his 'immortality' through 'his' creation (think of DaVinci's works) via the mind, rather than that of Pro-Creation via that of a Woman's womb.
To me, Da Vinci is way more of a real man than a man who has fathered 100 children.

Celibacy is cool and you don't have to be Religious to practice it.
It also 'buggers' a lot of women up in the workplace, when they can't pin you for being gay either. You are like a Fish that can't be hooked by any bait and free to rock their boat instead.
Love it.

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Hlysnan

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Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?
Reply #11 - Jul 15^th, 2010 at 9:58am

Quote:

According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.[iv] According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.[v] Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.[vi] Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.[vii]

....

Finally, in the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent.[xxii]

....

According to one study, .2 percent of athletic coaches nationwide have a criminal record of some sort of sexual offense. This translates to about 6,000 coaches in the U.S. who have been tried and found guilty of sexual offense against children.[xxvii] It is not known how many more offenders have escaped the reach of law enforcement.

....

It was reported in 1991 that 17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. Fully 13.5 percent said they had sexual intercourse with their teacher.[xxx]

In New York City alone, at least one child is sexually abused by a school employee every day. One study concluded that more than 60 percent of employees accused of sexual abuse in the New York City schools were transferred to desk jobs at district offices located inside the schools. Most of these teachers are tenured and 40 percent of those transferred are repeat offenders. They call it “passing the garbage” in the schools. One reason why this exists is due to efforts by the United Federation of Teachers to protect teachers at the expense of children.[xxxi] Another is the fact that teachers accused of sexual misconduct cannot be fired under New York State law.[xxxii]

....

All of the accused admitted sexual abuse of a student, but none of the abusers was reported to the authorities, and only 1 percent lost their license to teach. Only 35 percent suffered negative consequences of any kind, and 39 percent chose to leave their school district, most with positive recommendations. Some were even given an early retirement package.[xxxiii]

There are more interesting points and stats, but weren't very relevant to this discussion, so I'll leave the link here for the full article.

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?
Reply #12 - Jul 15^th, 2010 at 1:11pm

Good input - very interesting.

Having worked as a Male Nurse, I was really up against a hell of a lot of issues. I was always like a Salmon swimming upstream.

1. Real men are in the Military. All male nurses are gay.
...this was more prevalent a stereotype/view in the Public/Govt Hospitals. Not so much in the Private where you did have more male nurses and mostly heterosexual males.

2. As a Male Nurse, it was my personal 'ethic' not to attend to anyone under 20 years of age (as I still consider a teenager 18/19 as a child ...as do a lot of parents these days.) - male or female. I usually got a Female staff member to take over if I was to cross that boundary of personal space in regards to toileting/bed bathing/showering or having to remove garments in order to conduct a nursing duty. I once got blasted by Management at Healthscope for not attending to a boy upon a toilet (when there were plenty of female staff around), but I stuck to my guns and blasted them back!

3. As a Male Nurse, I mostly attended and aimed for older people and was at times 'requested', by some very old Diggers which made me feel pretty honoured.

4. As a Male Nurse I despised Gynacology and felt that Maternity was indeed a 'female' Bastion. At the most, I cleaned Delivery Suits, but it was aweful listening to the women in the next rooms Shocked

5. As a Male Nurse I did meet other Male Nurses that were Gay, or just hetero-Grubs, in that they tell me stories of how they sexually take advantage of Patients.

6. Eventually I left the Hospitals and nursing in general. I now work on a Farm with baby chickens.

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athos

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Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?
Reply #13 - Jul 15^th, 2010 at 9:30pm

Hlysnan wrote on Jul 15^th, 2010 at 9:58am:

Quote:

According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.[iv] According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.[v] Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.[vi] Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.[vii]

....

Finally, in the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent.[xxii]

....

According to one study, .2 percent of athletic coaches nationwide have a criminal record of some sort of sexual offense. This translates to about 6,000 coaches in the U.S. who have been tried and found guilty of sexual offense against children.[xxvii] It is not known how many more offenders have escaped the reach of law enforcement.

....

It was reported in 1991 that 17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. Fully 13.5 percent said they had sexual intercourse with their teacher.[xxx]

In New York City alone, at least one child is sexually abused by a school employee every day. One study concluded that more than 60 percent of employees accused of sexual abuse in the New York City schools were transferred to desk jobs at district offices located inside the schools. Most of these teachers are tenured and 40 percent of those transferred are repeat offenders. They call it “passing the garbage” in the schools. One reason why this exists is due to efforts by the United Federation of Teachers to protect teachers at the expense of children.[xxxi] Another is the fact that teachers accused of sexual misconduct cannot be fired under New York State law.[xxxii]

....

All of the accused admitted sexual abuse of a student, but none of the abusers was reported to the authorities, and only 1 percent lost their license to teach. Only 35 percent suffered negative consequences of any kind, and 39 percent chose to leave their school district, most with positive recommendations. Some were even given an early retirement package.[xxxiii]

There are more interesting points and stats, but weren't very relevant to this discussion, so I'll leave the link here for the full article.

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

Well said.

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« Last Edit: Jul 15^th, 2010 at 9:47pm by athos »

Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Soren

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Re: Does celibacy contribute to child abuse?
Reply #14 - Jul 15^th, 2010 at 9:34pm

athos wrote on Jul 15^th, 2010 at 9:30pm:

Hlysnan wrote on Jul 15^th, 2010 at 9:58am:

Quote:

According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.[iv] According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.[v] Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.[vi] Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.[vii]

....

Finally, in the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent.[xxii]

....

According to one study, .2 percent of athletic coaches nationwide have a criminal record of some sort of sexual offense. This translates to about 6,000 coaches in the U.S. who have been tried and found guilty of sexual offense against children.[xxvii] It is not known how many more offenders have escaped the reach of law enforcement.

....

It was reported in 1991 that 17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. Fully 13.5 percent said they had sexual intercourse with their teacher.[xxx]

In New York City alone, at least one child is sexually abused by a school employee every day. One study concluded that more than 60 percent of employees accused of sexual abuse in the New York City schools were transferred to desk jobs at district offices located inside the schools. Most of these teachers are tenured and 40 percent of those transferred are repeat offenders. They call it “passing the garbage” in the schools. One reason why this exists is due to efforts by the United Federation of Teachers to protect teachers at the expense of children.[xxxi] Another is the fact that teachers accused of sexual misconduct cannot be fired under New York State law.[xxxii]

....

All of the accused admitted sexual abuse of a student, but none of the abusers was reported to the authorities, and only 1 percent lost their license to teach. Only 35 percent suffered negative consequences of any kind, and 39 percent chose to leave their school district, most with positive recommendations. Some were even given an early retirement package.[xxxiii]

There are more interesting points and stats, but weren't very relevant to this discussion, so I'll leave the link here for the full article.

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

http://fromtheleft.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/3641_1821_dirty-priest-costume1.j...

Both hand on the keyboard now, Athos, you sick Russian b@stard.

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