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The Peak Energy Debate (Read 125318 times)
freediver
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #30 - Jun 23rd, 2010 at 8:26pm
 
Quote:
are certainly making hay whilst the sun is shining


That is kind of an unfortunate choice of term. You do realise that OPEC is all about reducing output right? And that other non-OPEC countries increase their production to capitalise?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #31 - Jun 23rd, 2010 at 9:36pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 8:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 8:17pm:
OPEC is involved in price fixing. That is the whole point of OPEC. They would be arrested if they did that within Australia.

However, peak oil is real and is nothing to do with OPEC. Getting yourself all confused about whether it is five peaks or one kind of misses the point.


I don't disagree! OPEC or at least certain countries within OPEC are certainly making hay whilst the sun is shining, because when the music stops, their decline starts!


And at the 'risk' of sounding cynical, or 'conspiratorial'...

That's the whole point to 'Peak Oil'.....price control...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #32 - Jun 23rd, 2010 at 10:00pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 8:26pm:
Quote:
are certainly making hay whilst the sun is shining


That is kind of an unfortunate choice of term.


Not really, I thought it was quite apt, given the discussion!
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perceptions_now
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #33 - Jun 23rd, 2010 at 10:16pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 8:26pm:
Quote:
are certainly making hay whilst the sun is shining


You do realise that OPEC is all about reducing output right?


Oh, I can guarantee there are games being played and some OPEC countries are certainly into games!

But, many of the countries are also on the other side Hubberts Peak and they have no option, but to reduce Production!
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perceptions_now
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #34 - Jun 23rd, 2010 at 10:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 8:26pm:
Quote:
are certainly making hay whilst the sun is shining


And that other non-OPEC countries increase their production to capitalise?


Well, even though I don't completely trust the EIA figures, they do provide some insight into Production and the results are of interest -

Of those countries producing reasonable volumes,
Production Up -
Canada (up on poorer quality non conventional Oil - Higher cost of Production)
Azerbaijan
Kazakhstan
Angola
Brazil
Russia (the big gainer in last few years, taking advantage of Pricing, but likely to start to decline, shortly - 2011?

Production Down - all substantially down on Peaks
Mexico
Venezuela
Norway
UK

Production Steady -
Oman
Iran
Kuwait
Qatar
UAE
Algeria
Libya
Saudi Arabia (steady, but down 10% in 2009, suggested Ghawar is in Decline)

Others -
Iraq - Up & Down over the years, reasonably steady since 1999, notable exception in 2003 when it dropped off the radar! Wonder why?

Australia - Reasonably steady, in recent years, but well below Peak , which was in 2000
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/cfapps/ipdbproject/iedindex3.cfm?tid=5&pid=53&aid=1&cid...
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« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2010 at 10:41am by perceptions_now »  
 
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #35 - Jun 24th, 2010 at 10:56am
 
World Oil Consumption Was Down in '09: U.S. Production Increased


In 2009 the world's consumption of oil fell by 1.7%. That is the second consecutive year of decline, but relative to a decade ago consumption is up 11.1%. This is a reflection of both the weak world economy and of conservation efforts spurred by the extremely high oil prices in 2008. Consumption in the U.S. fell much further, dropping by 4.9% in 2009, and it was actually 4.3% below what it was in 1999 when oil prices were extremely low, but the economy was booming.

Still in 2009, the U.S consumed 21.4% of the world's oil. The U.S. was actually able to increase its production of oil by 7.0%, although that feat is certainly not going to be repeated in 2010 given the moratorium on deep water drilling after the Transocean (RIG) deepwater Horizon went down in flames. Over the longer term U.S. production has been in a steady decline, and is 6.9% below the level of a decade ago. The U.S. is actually the world's third largest oil producer at 7.196 million barrels per day (Mb/d), or 8.5% of the world's total. That is more than Iran and Kuwait combined. Russia was the world's largest producer at 10.032 Mb/d, followed by Saudi Arabia at 9.713 Mb/d.

The U.S. was not the only major country with the biggest reduction in oil usage last year. Japan's consumption plunged 10.7% and is 21.5% below where it was a decade ago. Most of the major European countries had declines in consumption that were roughly in line with the decline in the U.S., ranging from a 3.5% decline in France to a 6.3% drop in Italy. Over the longer run though, the major European countries have reduced their consumption significantly more than the U.S. has. For example, consumption in Germany in 2009 was 14.2% below 1999 levels and in Italy it was down by 20.2% over the course of the decade.

The consumption declines in the developed world were offset by increased usage in the developing world. Most significant of these is, of course, China, where oil consumption rose by 6.7% in 2009 and is up 92.7% over the course of the last decade. India burned 3.8% more oil in 2009 than it did in 2008, and 49.2% more than it did in 1999.
One area of the world that has really been increasing its oil consumption rapidly is the oil-producing countries. Both Saudi Arabia and Kuwait increased their consumption by 9.8% in 2009 and their consumption is up 69.4% and 72.4%, respectively over the last decade. From the U.S. perspective, the important number for the big producers is not just how much they can produce, but how much they have available for export.

Even with the U.S. decline in 2009, the U.S. still consumes a massive amount of oil relative to the rest of the world. In 2009, the U.S. consumed 21.7% of the world's oil. That is more than China, India and all of Central and South America combined. While being able to increase production by 7.0% was a nice accomplishment, it is not sustainable. We already produce 8.5% of the world's oil, but we have just 2.1% of the reserves.

On the other hand, the reserve figures for most of the rest of the world are, in a word, flakey. OPEC sets its production quotas on the basis of reserves, and the reserves it uses are pretty much whatever the member governments say they are. Back in the 1980s, that lead to most of the countries vastly increasing their reserves without actually finding more oil. Since then even though they have been procuring heavily, the reserves have not declined, and indeed in many areas crept upwards. Only in the oil industry is it possible to take a positive real number and then subtract a positive real number and not have the original number decline. That process did not end in the 1980s either.

The biggest news in the world in terms of new oil finds over the last decade have been the finds off the coast of Brazil by Petrobras (PBR) . However since 1999, Brazil's (not a member of OPEC) reserves have only increased by 4.6 billion barrels or 56.0%. On the other hand, Venezuela's reserves have shot up by 95.5 billion barrels, or 124.4%. Did you hear about the massive new finds in Venezuela over the last few years, an oil find that is truly world changing? Funny, neither did I. It's far more likely that Hugo Chavez is full of it. Thus, it is very possible that the U.S. has a higher percentage of the world's oil reserves than the 2.1% shown by BP. However, that would be because the rest of the world, particularly OPEC, is vastly overstating the amount of oil they have.

While the decline in overall world oil consumption in 2009 is encouraging, it is probably mostly a reflection of a weak global economy. America in particular needs to continue finding ways of using oil more efficiently and to find alternative sources of energy. The combination of 21.7% of world consumption, 8.5% of world production and 2.1% of world reserves is simply not sustainable over the long run.
Link -
http://seekingalpha.com/article/211300-world-oil-consumption-was-down-in-09-u-s-...
===
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #36 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 12:09pm
 
FUTURE WINDOWS


Written in mid 2006, this contained 6 Possible, Major Influencing Events, including this one, relating to -


4) PEAK OIL

Event Initiator

- First reports that production can not keep pace with consumption, due to insufficient reserves.

Event Start Date
- Within 5 years.

Event Outcome/s
- Significant, to rampant increase in Oil related product pricing.
- Significantly increase inflationary pressure.
- Significant problems, in replacing Oil base, in many product lines.
- Immediate, knee-jerk reaction to implement Nuclear power.
- Increased, subsequent push for Green alternatives.

Event Duration
- 20 to 30 years

Event Probabilities
- Within 5 years, 80 to 20.
- Worse Case Scenario, 60-40.
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #37 - Jun 27th, 2010 at 4:25pm
 
Btw, in parts 4 & 5 of the following Dr Bartlet video, he refers to the medium Peak Oil date nominated by industry insiders was 2004 and those video's where put together around 1999.

A look at the Oil graph posted  4.08pm June 23rd, shows that Oil did in fact effectively plateau around 2004-2005.

Link (Dr. Albert A. Bartlett - Arithmetic, Population, and Energy) –
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9B70AC68E1D2AA54&search_query=Dr.+Albert...

Link (The Crash Course – Chris Martenson) -
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

I highly commend both of the above sites, as they contain an  enormous amount of information on Energy, Population, Economics & more!
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #38 - Jul 7th, 2010 at 5:04pm
 
Canterell now Sub-500k bpd and Colin Campbell Talks Peak Oil


We’re getting closer to the edge – actually, we may have already fallen off the edge and are experiencing the side-effects of expensive oil. The erosion of the Canterell field in Mexico only increases US dependence on its quasi-enemies for economic growth.

...

The Cantarell fields were a relatively recent discovery, with most of its production going to the USA. However, as its production declines, the USA will be forced to look elsewhere for its third largest supplier of crude oil.
Cantarell Wiki link -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantarell_Field
==========
There is also a useful video at the following link, which is an interview of Colin Campbell, who is a Petroleum Geologist & Peak Oil specialist. This includes reference to the North Sea Oil having declined from its Peak in 1989 of around 4.5 million bpd, to a current production of around 1.5 million bpd.

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2010/06/29/canterell-now-sub-500k-bpd-and-colin-ca...
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #39 - Jul 10th, 2010 at 9:57pm
 
Richard Heinberg Interview Part 1 (Peak Oil)


Richard Heinberg Interview Part 2 (Peak Oil)


Richard Heinberg is another whose logic, I can agree with, in some instances, regretably!

Are we humans, better than yeast?
I don't know, we will find out!
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #40 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 12:02pm
 
Australian crude oil production to decline by 85% over the next 10 years


...

What we can see from this graph (note the inserted comment is by the author of this paper):

Crude oil production from known oil fields will dramatically decline by 85% over the next 10 years ( 1 – (105 + 0.14*152) / 890 = 0.85 )
This decline is offset by condensate from wet gas (mainly in LNG projects) but because of a lack of condensate splitters in Australian refineries 95% of this is exported.
The prospect for new oil discoveries is not very good. Geologically, Australia is better off with natural gas
Since global oil export volumes are shrinking at the same time (details below), Australia will slide into a huge oil import crisis. The government hopes coal-to-liquids, gas-to-liquids and 2nd generation bio fuels will come to the rescue but it is very uncertain whether that will materialize in the quantities required, at acceptable prices and the timeline dictated by events surrounding the global peaking of oil production.

These events in the next years include

an oil war or oil proxy war in the Middle East
social unrest in ME countries when declining OPEC oil production
impacts on budgets and subsidies for the general population
oil hoarding and freezing of oil markets when the truth comes out about OPEC’s overstated reserves and confidence in all oil reserve data disappears

In any case, the energy profit ratios of  alternative  fuels will be very low:

6/1/2010
Diminishing Returns of Fossil Fuel Energy Invested
http://www.crudeoilpeak.com/?p=909

Let’s check how the above graph compares with previous government reports. This figure 6 is from Geoscience Australia’s 2005 submission 127 to the Senate Inquiry on Oil Supplies:[2]

...

It shows 3 projections up to 2025: P10, P50 and P90. Each number denotes the probability in percent that this projection will actually occur. Strangely, the AERA report does not show different probabilities. So let’s superimpose the 2 graphs to see where we are:

...

We can see from the graph:

The actual crude production curve (black line 2006-2009) has just hit the P90 estimate from 2005. It remains to be seen whether it will follow the new projection (light blue columns)
A lot of condensate has been added and that assumes all LNG projects go ahead as planned.
Read more about:

Australian oil reserves and resources, how AERA omits Geoscience Australia’s conservative 2P reserves
AERA’s misldeading statement about “enough” oil for 42 years and a factually incorrect “balanced” oil supply
The problems with propane deficient LPG, propane imports on the East coast and butane exports from the West coast
Timelines about global net oil exports shrinking and Australia’s coming oil import crisis
Lack of a Strategic Oil Reserve
Need to save oil in a hurry
3 examples of road projects which make no sense in a period of declining oil production: new Clem7  road tunnel in Brisbane, Hunter freeway and Western freeway in Melbourne
by downloading the full article of 10 pages as PDF file:  Australian Crude Oil Decline 85 Percent Over 10 Years [1.27 MB]
Link -
http://www.crudeoilpeak.com/?p=1243
=====
I think that OZ became net Oil importers, again, around 2000-2002. If these charts become reality, then the cost of Oil (read Energy) to the Australian Economy will become much greater, over the next decade, as will our reliance on following the USA into Oil Conflicts!
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #41 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 10:04pm
 
Lloyd’s adds its voice to dire ‘peak oil’ warnings


The Lloyd’s insurance market and the highly regarded Institute of Strategic Studies (ISS, known as Chatham House) says Britain needs to be ready for “peak oil” and disrupted energy supplies at a time of soaring fuel demand in China and India, constraints on production caused by the BP oil spill and political moves to cut CO2 to halt global warming.

“Companies which are able to take advantage of this new energy reality will increase both their resilience and competitiveness. Failure to do so could lead to expensive and potentially catastrophic consequences,” says the Lloyd’s and ISS report “Sustainable energy security: strategic risks and opportunities for business”.

The insurance market has a major interest in preparedness to counter climate change because of the fear of rising insurance claims related to property damage and business disruption. The review is groundbreaking because it comes from the heart of the City and contains the kind of dire warnings that are more associated with environmental groups or others accused by critics of resorting to hype. It takes a pot shot at the International Energy Agency which has been under fire for apparently under-estimating the threats, noting: “IEA expectations [on crude output] over the last decade have generally gone unmet.”

The report the world is heading for a global oil supply crunch and high prices owing to insufficient investment in oil production plus a rebound in global demand following recession. It repeats warning from Professor Paul Stevens, a former economist from Dundee University, at an earlier Chatham House conference that lack of oil by 2013 could force the price of crude above $200 (£130) a barrel.

It also quotes from a US department of energy report highlighting the economic chaos that would result from declining oil production as global demand continued to rise, recommending a crash programme to overhaul the transport system. “Even before we reach peak oil,” says the Lloyd’s report, “we could witness an oil supply crunch because of increased Asian demand. Major new investment in energy takes 10-15 years from the initial investment to first production, and to date we have not seen the amount of new projects that would supply the projected increase in demand.”

And while the world is gradually moving to new kinds of clean energy technologies the insurance market warns that there could be shortages of earth metals and other raw materials needed to help them thrive.

Lloyd’s also calls on manufacturers, retailers and the wider business community to reassess global supply chains and their just-in time models because the “current system is increasingly vulnerable to disruption.”

The report says government needs to do much more to bring additional price stability and transparency if the global carbon market is to become a reality.

Richard Ward, chief executive of Lloyd’s, said the failure of the Copenhagen climate change talks last December has helped lull many business leaders into a false sense of security about the challenges ahead. “We are in a period akin to a phony war. We keep hearing of difficulties to come, but with oil, gas and coal still broadly accessible – and largely capable of being distributed where they are needed – the bad times have not yet hit … all businesses … will be affected by energy supplies which are less reliable and more expensive.”
Link -
http://peakoil.com/bussiness/lloyds-adds-its-voice-to-dire-peak-oil-warnings/
==========
Having spent over 40 years in the financial sector, largely in insurance, I concur that risk assessment & early preventative medication, is much more preferably than trying to remedy problems, after they have occured.

And, in this case, the lead in times are enormous!
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #42 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 10:12pm
 
Looking ahead to When the tank runs dry


Addiction is defined as the state of being enslaved to something to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma. It is usually associated with drugs or alcohol. But, my fellow citizens, we all have an addiction problem: we're addicted to fossil fuels: oil, coal and natural gas.


Hooked

We began falling under their spell during the industrial revolution, when the steam engine was invented. It ran on coal and vastly improved life for our forefathers because it did work previously done manually.

Steamships and locomotives came next, then power plants and the internal combustion engine that is still used in vehicles worldwide today. Plastics - derived from oil - revolutionized consumer products and nitrogen-based fertilizers - derived from natural gas - enabled us to grow more food.

As a result, today we consume nearly 50 times more fossil fuel than we consumed in 1850. In 2008, fossil fuels provided an incredible 86 per cent of the energy used by humanity worldwide. We rely on them to grow and process our food; to purify and pump our water; to run our hospitals and schools; and to get around.

We rely on them every day, in every way. We're truly addicted.


A looming supply problem

Compounding our problem is the fact that we are addicted to something non-renewable: once it's gone, it's gone.

Consider oil. Wells that supply water to our homes are virtually bottomless, because they are continuously refilled by groundwater. Oil wells are different: there's only so much oil down there, so they eventually run dry. Historically we've simply moved on and found new ones. As the old lumberjack's cry goes, "There's always more wood over the next hill!"

But our voracious addiction has meant that all the easy oil is now gone. In the past few decades, we haven't been as successful at finding new wells to replace the ones that are running dry.

These days, we're down to dirty tar sands or drilling offshore to find more oil - much like an addict reduced to using a vein in a toe because all other veins have become scarred beyond use. Both have huge environmental implications. Devastating as it is, the Deepwater oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is a predictable consequence of our addiction.

Credible energy analysts such as Dave Hughes and Jeff Rubin (Why Your World Is About To Get A Whole Lot Smaller) believe the day when global oil demand exceeds supply is not very far away. It's called Peak Oil theory, and it has some troubling implications. The first will be higher prices, for just about everything. The next will be shortages, ditto.

When the supply of the substance that underpins your society starts to run tight, you're wise to be concerned. Cuba experienced turmoil when its oil supply dried up in 1989 after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It survived - but Cuba has no cold winter and can grow food year round. Canadians, far more addicted to fossil fuels than most, should be especially uneasy.


Rehab or cold turkey

If Peak Oil theory is true - and overwhelming logic offers no clear reason to doubt it is - we have an addiction to break, quickly.

We have two options: we can choose a rehab program that involves, in order: 1) greatly reducing our energy demand; 2) using what we do use as efficiently as possible; and 3) developing renewable energy sources.

Or we can choose to do nothing, and just let things come to pass. But that's unwise. It's better to plan for the day when there is no gas at the local station, than to simply show up one day with an empty tank to find there is none.
Link -
http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/magazine/article/1131278
========
Try telling that to the folks on Easter Island?
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Re: The Peak Oil Debate
Reply #43 - Jul 13th, 2010 at 3:26pm
 
Quote:
perceptions-now
In fact, if current rates of Economic & Population growth were to continue, which I suspect they won't, then coal could go the same as Oil is now & NG will within 20-30 years, whilst Coal may take slightly longer at 40-60 years.

It really does DEPEND on what changes we make to Economic & Population GROWTH, now & in the immediate future!


Quote:
muso
I don't know where you get your figures from, but it's more like 500 years for coal, and that's a conservative estimate. We have enormous reserves of coal worldwide. For example, some coal producing basins in Australia have not even been touched yet.
 
=========  
Muso/freediver,
You may be interested in the following comments, from the World Coal Institute -

"It has been estimated that there are over 847 billion tonnes of proven coal reserves worldwide. This means that there is enough coal to last us around 119 years at current rates of production. In contrast, proven oil and gas reserves are equivalent to around 46 and 63 years at current production levels."
http://www.worldcoal.org/coal/where-is-coal-found/
===========
So, what we have above is the Coal industry saying there are 119 years of Coal left, Globally.

However, as I previously mentioned, there is usually a rider to these statements, saying "at Current levels" or as they have done here " at current rates of production".

So, let's add an "acceptable" rate of growth of say 5%, which means the current usage/production doubles in 14 years, then doubles again at the end of another 14 years.

That means that the Coal Industries own figure of 119 years, suddenly becomes 40 years or less, if only 5% growth becomes reality and China is currently going along at 10% growth, with the rest of the world in a slight decline, due to the GFC.
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #44 - Jul 14th, 2010 at 4:09pm
 
The Chinese Coal Monster


•China set to consume 50% of global coal production this year
•Production and consumption roughly in balance
•Coal imports used for stock pile growth?
•Consumption growing >10% year on year in line with economic growth
•Rest of world consumption declined 7% in 2009

...

...

...

...

Threat to global economy
Should China ever fail to match coal consumption with indigenous production then 1 of 3 things may happen. The first option is that consumption is pegged back to match stalled production and this would stall Chinese economic growth with knock on effects to the global economy. The second option is that China tries to meet any shortfall buying coal on the international market. As already pointed out China is such a huge consumer of coal this would create great competition in the international market for limited supplies leading to severe upwards pressure on coal prices. The third option is that China somehow manages to install sufficient nuclear capacity to plug any energy gap
Link -
http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/6700
=========
There are other threats!
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