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The Peak Energy Debate (Read 125437 times)
Amadd
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #165 - Oct 14th, 2010 at 5:36pm
 
Quote:
The peception that Peak Oil is here, does not require Public acceptance to cause a dramatic Economic Contraction, it only requires acceptance of a small percentage at the top of the Establishment, which would in turn cause a stampede of the herd!


Yeah, that's how it will happen I'm sure.
I was having a discussion about this topic at a BBQ the other week, and not surprisingly, the general concensus was that there is more oil around than they're letting on and if it's such a problem, they'd be doing something about it.
Nothing will change at the ground level. I haven't changed anything, I don't really know what I can do to change anything besides opting for solar power, which I would've done regardless.



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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #166 - Oct 18th, 2010 at 4:51pm
 
US Association For The Study Of Peak Oil (US-ASPO) Conference Thoughts: Listen To These Folks


Chris Martenson
-
what a great presenter! Great popularizer, but still very empirical. Fantastic at boiling it down to the key convincing information and seeing the big pictures.
Takeway: Find a way to follow this guy's works. He claims there is a relationship between the economy and energy and that energy is the key input to the economy. He claims peak coal in 2030. Integrates fiat, fractional reserve money system where money is loaned into existence with Peak Oil. The money system requires continued GDP growth which it has been getting from cheap oil-based energy (whose consumption has been growing at roughly an exponential rate). He claims that bad and unexpected things are bound to happen as oil-based energy cannot continue to grow and thus the fiat money system can no longer grow. The money system will have to change. The money system is a complex non-linear system and is inherently unpredictable. Martenson answers the question: "How did we get two bubbles in one decade: Internet and Housing" when ordinarily they come at least a generation apart" with the answer: "They are really one big credit-expansion bubble which hasn't blown up yet". Financial markets do not change gradually and some kind of fundamental change is about to happen.
Takeway: I've got to get more liquid so that I can change course when the big changes hit.


Dr. Robert Hirsch, Senior Energy Advisor, MISI
-
Seems to have the best overall view (and makes the best overall case) that Peak Oil is significant and what its implications are.
Takeway:
Hisch makes a strong empirical case that oil consumption correlates with world GDP 1 to 1 (1% GDP growth correlates with 1% oil consumption growth) and that with Peak Oil we might very well be looking at a 4% fall in oil (and GDP) for at least a decade (that's a more than 40% drop in world GDP!!!).
Link -
http://www.worldofwallstreet.us/2010/10/us-assocation-for-the-study-of-peak-oil-...
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #167 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:35pm
 
I don't think that the importance of the Import/Own Production figures can be overlooked.
In the short space of 40 years, the US own Production Declined from 9.5 Billion bpd to 5 Billion bpd, whilst Imports went from 1 Billion bpd to 10 Billion bpd.
That's a combined turnaround of 13.5 Billion bpd, in 40 years and that includes every President saying that the US must wean itself off of imported Oil, which includes President Carters dire words.

...
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #168 - Oct 26th, 2010 at 11:27am
 
When will Peak Oil arrive? How will it effect us? and can Green Energy save us?


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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #169 - Oct 26th, 2010 at 10:40pm
 
...
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #170 - Oct 26th, 2010 at 11:12pm
 
I don't care, I'm gettin' solar panels (all controlled by electricity companies of course) and I'll be able to produce enough power for my electric scooter to ride to the milk bar and back once a week, if I don't need the lights on at night that is  Grin

Too bad my place of work won't fair so well. They probably won't pay me if they can't operate, but jeez I'm glad we have the dole to save us all  Cheesy








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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #171 - Oct 28th, 2010 at 9:18pm
 
Peak Oil — Where Do We Stand?


On October 14, 2010, Aaron Task interviewed Chris Martenson at Yahoo's Tech Ticker (video below). Martenson, fresh off of attending ASPO-USA's annual peak oil conference, told Aaron that "conventional oil" peaked "around 2005." Aaron had no way to assess this statement, so he ran with it. It was then that I decided to write this post in a futile attempt to get everybody on the same page about future oil production.

IMHO, anybody with a vested interest in the world's future oil supply—that would be almost everybody on Earth—should read this post. Realistically, my expectations are somewhat lower

First things first. Conventional oil refers to crude oil plus lease condensate according to the Energy Information Agency (EIA). That's as good a definition as any, and I will use EIA data today.  All liquids refers to conventional oil taken together with natural gas liquids, refinery gains and biofuels, but today I will stick with conventional oil. In July, 2010 the world produced 73.691 million barrels per day (b/d) of conventional oil. The all-liquids total for that month was 86.474 million b/d. You can see that conventional oil by far makes up the largest share of the total liquids supply. When I refer to just "oil" in the text below, I mean conventional oil as defined by the EIA.

Chris' claim that conventional oil peaked around 2005 is false. If anything, conventional oil production peaked in July, 2008 or the first half of 2008 (see the graph and caption below).

http://peakwatch.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452403c69e20133f560fed3970b-800wi

The EIA estimates that OPEC's spare (unused) capacity is about 5 million b/d right now in 2010 (and this doesn't change in 2011). Any increase in demand requires that new supply be taken from this capacity. The main problem is that Saudi Arabia has almost all the spare capacity!

http://peakwatch.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452403c69e20133f56137ba970b-800wi

And then there is the trust issue. Clearly, the Saudis have exaggerated the size of their recoverable reserves as I demonstrated in OPEC Will Never Run Out Of Oil. Can we trust their spare capacity numbers?

Where do we stand? Peak oil does not mean the end of the world as we know it in the medium-term—the next 5 years or so depending on how the global economy fares—but in the longer term things don't look so good. Some say Iraq will increase its output by several million barrels per day in the next decade, but that's a very risky proposition.

Our utter dependence on the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to meet our future supply needs poses a significant threat to the global economy. Moreover, it's a disgrace that the world has allowed such dangerous risks to pile up without adequate preparation for a future it was not hard to see coming.

Here's the Martenson video.
(video is available on link)

http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2010/10/peak-oil-where-do-we-stand.html
=============
A couple of observations -
1) I am of the opinion that Oil Production did "effectively" Peak in 2005, as it has since failed to keep up with either Demand & Population Growth!

2) There are strong suggestions that the Saudi spare capacity is unlikely, for any more than a limited duration, particularly given the reported declines in the Ghawar fields (the worlds biggest), the Saudi announcement that they will start offshore exploration and the Saudi announcement that they will go into local Nuclear power.
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #172 - Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:43am
 
If we are trusting in the Saudi's word, then that's our fault. We'll get, or not get, what we deserve.

If we are trusting in our governments to tell us when oil has run out, then that's our fault.


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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #173 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 5:02pm
 
Amadd wrote on Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
If we are trusting in the Saudi's word, then that's our fault. We'll get, or not get, what we deserve.

If we are trusting in our governments to tell us when oil has run out, then that's our fault.




Agreed!
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #174 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 4:35pm
 
The peak oil debate is over


May I start with a bromide: a resource which is finite is not inexhaustible. If you think that over, it should not be a revelation. That was a bromide… some people think a keynote should never rise above a bromide….

Some five years ago in Italy I concluded a talk by saying that like the inhabitants of Pompeii, who ignored the neighboring volcano, Vesuvius, until it detonated, the world ignores the possibility of peak oil at its peril.

Two years ago in addressing ASPO in Cork, Ireland, I argued that the peakists had won the intellectual argument, except for some minor details about precise timing, but that by and large everyone recognized that there were limits on our capacity to increase the production of crude oil as we have steadily since World War Two.

[I also argued] that peakists were no longer a beleaguered minority, that they had won, and that consequently they should be gracious in victory.

There’s an old spiritual that is relevant here. The walls of those who doubted the peak seemed to be impregnable. Nonetheless, you marched around the walls seven times and then blew the trumpets and the walls of Jericho came tumbling down.

But acceptance by knowledgeable people is not enough. The political order should respond. Nonetheless, our willingness, let alone our ability, to do anything serious about the impending inability to increase oil output is still a long way off.

The political order responds to what the public believes today, not to what it may come to believe tomorrow. It is also resistant to any action that inflicts pain or sacrifice on those who vote. The payoff in politics comes from reassurance, perhaps precluded by a rhetorical challenge.

Still, the challenge is clear in both logic and in the evidence. Let me start briefly with the logic,

If something cannot be sustained, it will eventually not be sustained… ultimately it will shrink.

Secondly, you cannot produce oil unless you first discover it (a contribution by Colin Campbell).

Third, a resource that is finite cannot continually have its production increased.

What is the evidence?

First, we remain heavily dependent on super-giant and giant oilfields discovered in the 50s and 60s of the last century… I might add, of the last millennium. Only rarely in recent decades have discoveries equaled production. Mostly, it’s been one barrel discovered for every three barrels produced.

Second, old super-giants like Burgan in Kuwait and [Cantarell] in Mexico have gone into decline earlier than had been anticipated… and going into decline have been Alaska, the North Sea, western Siberia and the like.

Third, while it is not yet “Twilight in the Desert” (as you may have read) still we are well into the afternoon, even in Saudi Arabia. Even the Ghawar oilfield is increasingly hard to sustain.

Fourth, in 2004 we experienced our first demand-driven price spike, as opposed to the previous price spikes driven by supply interruptions. We still operate at about the level of production capacity of 2004.

Next, given projected decline curves running from 4 to 6 percent, and the projected increase in demand during the next quarter century, we shall require the new capacity equivalence of five Saudi Arabias.

Note that it is conventional oil: that is all that Hubbert talked about. Somewhat disingenuously, the debate has been turned on him by talking about fuel liquids in general, throwing in tar sands, heavy oil, coal liquids, oil shale and so on.

But clearly, large conventional oil production is increasingly no longer part of the future unless there is a technological breakthrough, which Mr. Gilbert talked about just a few moments ago, raising the ultimate recovery rate from existing fields, which at this moment we cannot expect.

Of course, there are uncertainties which make timing predictions with regard to the peak risky. Iraq, which has been held back for a variety of reasons, may come along as one of those five new needed Saudi Arabias.

Offshore Brazil and offshore oil elsewhere are promising. Shale gas, which is apparently coming in abundance (but is not, of course, oil) may somewhat alleviate the pressures on liquid fuels.

But in general we must expect to get along without what has been our critical energy source in expanding the world’s economy for more than half a century.

Can the political order face up to the challenge? There is no reason for optimism.

We are likely to see pseudo-solutions, misleading alternatives and sheer sloganeering: “energy independence,” “getting off foreign oil” and the like. All of that sheer sloganeering we have seen to this point.

The political order (which abhors political risk) tends to rely on the Biblical prescription, “Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”
Link -
http://energybulletin.net/stories/2010-10-30/peak-oil-debate-over
==================
For those who may not be aware, Dr. James Schlesinger served as Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission (1971-73), Secretary of Defense (1973-75), Director of the CIA and was the first Secretary of Energy (1977-79), in the USA. His experience therefore, comes at the highest relevant levels.

Whilst he is not one of the worlds great speakers, you would think given his background that he comes from a position of insider knowledge, that some of his points are, indeed, salient!
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #175 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 8:19pm
 
US Coal to Gasoline Plant Will be the Largest in the World


TransGas Development Systems, LLC announced an agreement with SK Engineering & Construction Co., Ltd (SKE&C) leading to engineering, procurement and construction of its first US coal-to-gasoline plant—Adams Fork Energy—to be located in Mingo County, West Virginia. _GCC

US coal deposits contain 12 X as much energy as all known oil in Saudi Arabia. The gasification process to be used in the new West Virginia CTL plant could cleanly utilise coals of any grade -- including the cheapest and dirtiest coal. By moving US coal reserves into the liquid fuels arena, the prospects for peak oil continue to remain slight -- unless the Obama administration decides to shut down all coal, even clean coal projects. Obama has promised to bankrupt coal companies, and all his other policies are consistent with an "energy starvation" approach to shutting down US industrial production. Time will tell.

The Adams Fork Energy project will convert regional coal into premium-grade gasoline, producing 18,000 barrels per day (756,000 gallons US, 2.86 million liters). When fully developed, the Adams Fork project will be the largest coal-to-gasoline project in the world, according to Adam Victor, President and CEO of TransGas Development Systems.

The project team has been issued a permit to construct by the West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection and plans to begin work on the site during the second quarter of 2011.

The plant will have several process components. First, coal is gasified to produce synthesis gas, using Uhde PRENFLO PDQ gasifiers. The synthesis gas will then be cleaned to remove impurities, turning most into marketable byproducts. Next, the synthesis gas will be converted into methanol, which in turn will be converted into gasoline utilizing ExxonMobil Research and Engineering Company’s (EMRE) MTG process. During the operation of the integrated facility, air emissions are expected to be so low that it will qualify as a minor source under US law.
Link -
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/US-Coal-to-Gasoline-Plant-Will-be-the-...
===============
A few observations -
1) The current US Oil consumption is around 20 Million bpd (Barrels per Day).
2) Large scale Coal to Gas plants, even one, would have an immediate upwards impact on Coal & Power pricing.
3) If sufficient Coal to Gas plants were brought online, to make some realistic impact, then the Coal Peak could be brought forward by decades.
4) There is no such thing as a clean Coal to Gas process!
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #176 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 8:54pm
 
The coming liquid fuel crisis


We face a liquid fuel crisis in two to five years. That was the stark message from an international conference on peak oil in Washington DC that I attended last month.

It will be far worse than the 1973 and 1979 oil shocks that induced panic, disorientation and insecurity. Back then stock market declines followed big hikes in fuel prices. This time we can expect ever-rising fuel prices accompanied by annually deepening recession, increasing inflation and unemployment, and a decline in world trade.

Last time, the crises resolved themselves as oil production and trade were resumed. This time, there will not be enough oil to resume business as usual. Despite a decrease in demand from OECD countries, overall demand continues to rise as global population climbs inexorably from 6.8 towards 9.2 billion and newly emerging economies expect their share of the global resource pie. Come 2015, however, we can anticipate a significant increase in the price of oil as global production starts its inevitable decline. Production of regular or conventional oil has already peaked while supplies of unconventional oil - heavy, deepwater and Arctic oil - will peak within a few years.

"We're drillin' three miles down in the Gulf of Mexico because of peak oil," drawled Jim Baldauf, former Texan oilman and organiser of the conference. "We're scrapin' the bottom of the barrel, so to speak. We have to drill twice as deep at twice the cost to get half what we're used to."

The recent Deepwater Horizon spill in the Gulf was a rude awakening to those who thought drilling for unconventional oil was going to be easy. And it's not cheap to produce oil from unconventional sources - the price needs to be $100 a barrel to make it worthwhile. But as Chris Skrebowski , a leading expert on global oil supply, asked: "Can we afford this price? Where is the price that allows everyone to be employed? Europe already has 10 per cent unemployment."

Like it or not, $100 a barrel is what we can expect, or worse. Another leading oil analyst Jeff Rubin laid it on the line: "We can expect triple-digit oil next year."

A peak in oil production does not mean the end of oil, nor indeed of energy supplies. But oil is the energy source that all others are measured against. The coming oil crisis is largely a crisis in transportation since oil products power 95 per cent of land transport. Skrebowski felt that only when we take oil out of transport could we hope to see a solution. Otherwise, as Rubin notes: "We have to get off the road".

Anthony Perl, author of Transport Revolutions, said we will see a major redesign of our transport within 10 years. In order to survive this "mother of all energy crises", we need to fast track mobility systems that can perform without oil. The most promising developments are electric motors replacing the internal combustion engine; greater use of rail and water replacing road and air; and greater use of collectively managed travel.

A lot of solutions are already out there, according to Perl, for example, high speed rail (HSR) for up to 500 miles (800 kms) though this will soon increase to 1000 miles (1600kms). China is currently building 12,000 miles of HSR that will double the world's capacity and in turn reduce the price by 50per cent. "Sky sail" technology can reduce a ship's oil use by 50-80 per cent. Electric railways are already a proven technology - the Trans-Siberian is a case in point.

Planes and trucks, however, which cannot run at scale without oil will see the most radical changes. New priorities, new skills and new priorities are needed. We need a Transportation Redevelopment Agency, according to Perl, that will anticipate future technologies and modes of transport; develop strategies for deploying those modes; and determine how to fund them.

What then is the future of air transport? Charles Schlumberger, principal air transport specialist at the World Bank, noted that oil is already the biggest cost for airlines. Nevertheless, the air industry is looking at significant fleet replacement, especially in the Asia-Pacific. Air transport has been a catalyst for world economic development and is a crucial part of trade, globalization and foreign investment. Thus if air transport shrinks because of oil prices, it will have a significant impact and accelerate recession.

Australia imports 40 per cent of its oil.
We are not immune from the coming oil crunch. Perhaps it was apocryphal, but the story goes that
Opposition leader Tony Abbott was overheard saying to an adviser at the beginning of the year: "Peak Oil? Do we know about Peak Oil?"

Let's hope our new Prime Minister does know and acts accordingly.


Link -
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11171
================
There is always hope, but I wouldn't bank on either of the major party's, they both blocked a parliamentry enquiry!
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #177 - Nov 6th, 2010 at 8:19pm
 
Nicole “Stoneleigh” Foss: “Expect Next Phase Of Market Crash And A Large One For That Matter…”


Nicole Foss alias Stoneleigh – the co-editor-in-chief of the blog The Automatic Earth, together with Ilargi – is one of a few „big picture“ persons and it was a delightful experience to meet her at ASPO peak oil conference. For her, business-as-usual is not an option and current form of capitalism is a Ponzi scheme. She is clear about peak oil (it is here and renewables will not come to the rescue!), but she is even much more clear about financial markets – they will make everything worse. The next phase of debt-deflation and final bubble bursting will hinder future investments in energy sector. In the short term oil prices will go down, not up, as probably most of peak oil energy analysts expect. Unless we are in debt, nothing is solved, and she says that Paul Krugman is a monetarist whose recommendations will make nothing better (except maybe prolonging the life of banks – which is not good either). One planet for her would be not enough, but she hopes that that what she does justifies this. Decide for yourselves.

Alexander Ac: Here at ASPO-USA conference in Washington everybody seems to understand implications of energy scarcity. What would be your message to a lay person? What are the main implications of peak oil for the daily life?

Stoneleigh: We are going to have to get used to a much lower energy lifestyle. Energy has been cheap for a very long time, so we have developed a structural dependency on it. Energy is not going to be cheap for much longer though, and that means many of the things we take for granted will no longer be affordable. A much larger proportion of our income will have to go to energy costs, and that will leave very much less for everything else. Our material standard of living will fall, and we will have to go back to performing many functions with human energy rather than fossil fuel energy.

The wealthy may still have access to fossil fuels, but if most people do not, then they will not be able to live a modern life. A life fuelled by human energy alone is one where people have to spend an enormous amount of time performing everyday tasks, and will not have time to undertake much of a role in the wider economy. Some family members will have to stay at home and devote all their time to household tasks that will take far longer than we are used to.

AA: When did you first see the term “peak oil” and when did you realize it might be a problem?

Stoneleigh: I used to work at the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies, which is primarily an oil and gas institute, back in the 1990s. I worked on electricity, but most of my colleagues were involved in fossil fuels. There were many discussions about the upstream, meaning where oil is coming from, and that fact that it is finite. It was clear that supply would be a problem at some point, although when I was there, oil prices were very low ($10/barrel), so no one thought it would be an imminent problem. I began to look into energy returned on energy invested (net energy) and realized the problem would be much closer at hand in net energy terms, and that we would see major declines in my lifetime.

AA: Why is that most of the economists do not recognize the role of energy in economy?

Stoneleigh: Energy is invisible, and therefore taken for granted. Most economists do not recognize resource limits at all, partly because they do not understand the laws of thermodynamics. They live in a world of substitutions when something becomes scarce, and do not understand that energy is the master resource for which there are no substitutes.

Economists typically say that there are no limits, only price. If something is scarce, it will cost more, but we will never run out. I think this misses the tremendous impact on a society dependent not only on energy, but on cheap energy. All our modern infrastructure requires a steady supply of affordable energy to maintain it
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #178 - Nov 6th, 2010 at 8:22pm
 
Nicole “Stoneleigh” Foss: “Expect Next Phase Of Market Crash And A Large One For That Matter…” (Cont)


AA: What about alternatives or nuclear energy? People often say that if oil gets more expensive, alternatives are to be deployed. Is this flawed logic?

Stoneleigh: Alternatives to oil typically have a much lower energy returned on energy invested (EROEI), and are expensive, at a time when money will be very scarce. They also depend on the availability of cheap oil to produce them. These problems mean that it will be very difficult to provide anything like the energy we get from fossil fuels. Alternatives can help in small-scale niche applications, but they cannot solve the problem of running a society, especially an energy-intensive industrial society.

Alternatives generally do not scale up, for reasons of net energy, money and time. We do not even have the capacity to produce things like solar panels on a massive scale, and we have neither the time nor the money to build that capacity before our oil supplies decline, let alone build all the panels we would need as well. We have also allowed our grid infrastructure to age, to the point where much of it will need to be replaced.

As most alternatives produce electricity, we are very dependent on the grid. Unfortunately there is a large mismatch between renewable energy resource intensity, energy demand and grid capacity. That means far more grid investment would be required. We would also have t covert energy demand away from liquid fuels to electricity, and that will take a huge amount of time and money at a time when both will be in very short supply.

AA: Financial system seems to complicate the whole issue? In which way?

Stoneleigh: Financial crisis will make everything very much harder. We will have very little money in a deflationary world, and people will be highly risk averse. No one (individuals, companies and governments) will be wanting to spend at a time when future earnings are so uncertain, which will make it almost impossible to invest in the infrastructure changes we need to make in order to address energy crisis. With not enough to go around, people are unfortunately likely to waste efforts and resources fighting over what there is, rather than pooling scarce resources for the good of all. Financial crisis leads to social instability at a time when we most need to keep our heads and work together.

AA: Do you expect crash in stock markets? How serious it will be and what will be the main consequences?

Stoneleigh: Yes, I do expect a crash, and a very large one at that. I expect the larger trend to be down for several years. A lot of investments will fall a very long way in value, and where these investments have been used as collateral for borrowing, there will be knock-on consequences. We will see margin calls as values decline, and outstanding debt is now too high compared to the value of the asset, so that additional debt repayments have to be made. We are going to see a very large number of bankruptcies and many debt defaults. This will be a factor in crashing the money supply, leaving too little lubricant to run the engine of the economy.

AA: Debt seems to be large part of the problem. How large?

Stoneleigh: A massive debt bubble is the at the heart of the problem. It has been building for decades and is now far larger than any previous debt bubble in human history. Humanity periodically rediscovers leverage on a grand scale, after the lessons of the previous episode have mostly passed out of living memory. Expansions of credit and debt create the appearance of great wealth, but it is illusory (virtual). The obligations created are real though. People have expectations of being repaid, and they will not be, which will set up a grab for the underlying real wealth (collateral) which is nowhere near enough to go around. This is deflation, and its effects are very significant. Money will be scarce for a very long time.

AA: Still, some people say we should leave the solution of peak oil to the free market…?

Stoneleigh: The free market has a very short time horizon, while energy investments are long-term. In fact the time horizon of the free market is likely to shrink in the times of high risk that we are facing. No one will be making investments where there is no economic visibility, so returns are completely uncertain. Financing projects will be almost impossible. We are going to have to depend on public financing, but governments will have very little money and many more calls on their resources, so they will not be in a position to make many investments either.
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Re: The Peak Energy Debate
Reply #179 - Nov 6th, 2010 at 8:26pm
 
Nicole “Stoneleigh” Foss: “Expect Next Phase Of Market Crash And A Large One For That Matter…” (Cont)


AA: What does Paul Krugman (or others) get wrong? Should we listen to him (and spend more)?

Stoneleigh: No, we should not listen. Spending more will only dig us into an even deeper hole, and will not prevent the deflation that is coming. We need to become economically responsible and save. Of course this will accelerate the decline in economic activity, but this needs to happen. If we keep making the problem worse by spending, we will only have to face an even larger set of consequences later. It is better to let the house of cards fall and begin rebuilding once the toxic debt has been defaulted upon. The sooner that happens, the sooner we can begin to rebuild the trust and social cohesion that facilitate investments in the public good.

Mr Krugman is a monetarist, and does not understand the critical role of debt in setting up a deflationary collapse. Monetarists treat economies as machines governed by the laws of physics, rather than as formed of people. Machines can be controlled in order to produce predictable outcomes in ways that people cannot. Any human social construct will depend on the mechanisms of human social behaviour, and this is outside the monetarist model.

AA: We have created the most complex and interconnected civilization that ever existed on Earth. Does it make us more fragile or more vulnerable to resource exhaustion?

Stoneleigh: That makes us much more vulnerable, because we have so many more structural dependencies. The rate of change in both energy and finance is likely to be rapid enough that adaptation will be very difficult. We will not have time to adjust gradually, which means we face a significant dislocation.

Financial crisis is going to make resource depletion much harder to address, because we are not going to have the money to replace highly energy-dependent infrastructure. Doing so would be staggeringly expensive and would take a very long time even if we did have the money. As it is, we will be forced to conserve both money and resources by going without.

Socioeconomic complexity is very dependent on energy subsidy. With less energy, we will have to have a simpler society. Getting from here to there will be very painful though.

AA: Politics is another part of the problem. What should an honest politician do in an era of general decline? Should politicians acknowledge peak oil or try to “solve” it quietly.

Stoneleigh: That is a difficult question. Politicians never like to alarm people for fear of creating the very situations they are trying to avoid. Personally I think they should acknowledge the problem, as Jimmy Carter tried to do in the 1970s. That is a thankless task though. People do not like to see their politicians express challenging messages, especially messages with implications for their material standard of living. Hard times have very negative effects on the reputations of politicians, whatever they do or do not do, as people tend to blame their leaders for what happens to them, regardless of fault.

Ultimately, there can be no progress towards addressing the problem through the political process without public acceptance of the need to do so. However, events are going to overtake the political process anyway, and societies will be forced to change.

AA: How many politicians are ready to talk about peak oil?

Stoneleigh: I do not know of any who are prepared to talk about it. I do know quite a few are aware of it. Matt Simmons spent a lot of time explaining it to the previous administration in the US, who were oil men anyway.

The previous national liberal party leader in Canada, Stephane Dion, had read much of the literature on peak oil, but never addressed it during his tenure.

The military in several countries has been producing peak oil reports, and they would certainly have provided those to their political leadership before making them public. Still, politicians say nothing.


AA: Which countries in general are more adapted to post carbon future?

Stoneleigh: Countries with fewer structural dependencies on cheap energy should find adjustment much less painful. In other words, countries which have been poorer and less able to transition to what people typically consider a fully modern lifestyle over the last few decades may well find the future less difficult than wealthier countries. The more entrenched the dependencies, the more difficult the transition to a low-energy future will be.

Also, countries or regions with climates where there is less need for heating and cooling, and a longer growing season, should find a lower energy future easier to manage. An established tradition of family-scale farms should be a significant bonus, since the agri-business model is very vulnerable to both energy and financial shocks. Well developed renewable energy infrastructure should help, as should relatively localized economies which are less ‘plugged-in’ to globalization.

Ironically, the most economically efficient societies have the least ability to adapt, as buffers have often been trimmed to the bone already on cost grounds. That leaves them much less resilient than they would once have been. Jim Kunstler calls efficiency “the straightest path to the hell”, and it is this brittleness that he is referring to.

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