Australian Politics Forum

longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Penrith votes Reply #30 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 2:56pm are you deliberately trying to make no sense? coz if you are, you are succeeding!
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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Penrith votes Reply #31 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 3:22pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 2:56pm: are you deliberately trying to make no sense? coz if you are, you are succeeding! Moi, obtuse!? PS If I'm right (as in 'correct'), this otherwise pointless post renders me a 'full member'!
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Penrith votes
Reply #32 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 3:43pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 2:17pm:

K unt wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 2:14pm:

Why will Gillard be a better leader than Rudd, all the bugger ups this gov has produced, Gillards hands have been firmly on those same levers with Rudds.

She is no better than him, actually I think she is worse she has defended everything more vigorously than Rudd, the BER the NBN the border disaster you name it it fell apart and she was a big part of it.

I dont think labor will change leaders now. It is too late. An election is due in a few months and a new leader wont have time to stamp their authority on things, especially when so much is going wrong. All they wil do is get associated with the mess. Best for labor to let Rudd take the fall and then regroup with new leaders and policies for the inevitable 12 years of opposition to follow.

If Labor runs true to the form they've showed over the past 15 yrs or so....then YES they will try to change leaders, even as late as 4-6 months out from an election....

After all, how many times did the Labor Caucus kick Kim Beazley out of the Leadership...'just' before an election???

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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skippy.

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Re: Penrith votes
Reply #33 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 3:59pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 3:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 2:17pm:

K unt wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 2:14pm:

Why will Gillard be a better leader than Rudd, all the bugger ups this gov has produced, Gillards hands have been firmly on those same levers with Rudds.

She is no better than him, actually I think she is worse she has defended everything more vigorously than Rudd, the BER the NBN the border disaster you name it it fell apart and she was a big part of it.

I dont think labor will change leaders now. It is too late. An election is due in a few months and a new leader wont have time to stamp their authority on things, especially when so much is going wrong. All they wil do is get associated with the mess. Best for labor to let Rudd take the fall and then regroup with new leaders and policies for the inevitable 12 years of opposition to follow.

If Labor runs true to the form they've showed over the past 15 yrs or so....then YES they will try to change leaders, even as late as 4-6 months out from an election....

After all, how many times did the Labor Caucus kick Kim Beazley out of the Leadership...'just' before an election???

UMMM, none? is that a trick question? the closest Labor had a leadership vote before an election whilst in opposition was over twelve months, when Kevvie came to power.
About the same time Abbott has led the Libs, LOL Roll Eyes

I don't know why you make it out that its such a bad thing though, if the Libs had the balls to dump the rodent before the last election you wouldn't have as many seats to try and win back this time around.

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longweekend58

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Re: Penrith votes
Reply #34 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 6:16pm

Thats a presumption and Howard was still the best chance for success. The fact it didnt work doesnt mean that Costello would have succeeded. And a loss is a loss. changing the margin slightly woudl ahve acheived little. And the way Rudd is going no one will care since Libs will be beack in power for ANOTHER 12 years before christmas!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40816 Gender:	Re: Penrith votes Reply #35 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 7:22pm wonder if the libs will be able to repy alps debt this time? Quote: NSW Labor suffers massive loss in Penrith by-election what a lovely heading ........... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/nsw-labor-suffers-massive-loss-in-penri...
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longweekend58

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Re: Penrith votes
Reply #36 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 7:54pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 7:22pm:

wonder if the libs will be able to repy alps debt this time?

Quote:

NSW Labor suffers massive loss in Penrith by-election

what a lovely heading ...........

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/nsw-labor-suffers-massive-loss-in-penri...

even labor luminaries are now predicting that federal labor wil be in oppoition for 'a generation'. perhaps a tad negative, but 12 years sounds about right. Rudd will have destroyed labor as badly as Whitlam did - perhaps worse.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 109512 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Penrith votes Reply #37 - Jun 20^th, 2010 at 7:59pm Longweekend: Quote: even labor luminaries are now predicting that federal labor wil be in oppoition for 'a generation'. perhaps a tad negative, but 12 years sounds about right. Rudd will have destroyed labor as badly as Whitlam did - perhaps worse. I actually agree with Longweekend here & that is only the 3rd time in 3 years.
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skippy.

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Re: Penrith votes
Reply #38 - Jun 21^st, 2010 at 9:08am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 7:54pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 7:22pm:

wonder if the libs will be able to repy alps debt this time?

Quote:

NSW Labor suffers massive loss in Penrith by-election

what a lovely heading ...........

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/nsw-labor-suffers-massive-loss-in-penri...

even labor luminaries are now predicting that federal labor wil be in oppoition for 'a generation'. perhaps a tad negative, but 12 years sounds about right. Rudd will have destroyed labor as badly as Whitlam did - perhaps worse.

Really who? or are you lying again, you'd better have a good cut and paste to back up your assertion, or you'll be branded a liar from here on in.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Penrith votes
Reply #39 - Jun 21^st, 2010 at 2:39pm

oooooohhhhhh, leftys, there may be a dislocating between the greens preferences and the alp.
As there should be.

Quote:

.................While the 24 per cent drop in Labor's primary vote was close to predictions, the collapse in the party's vote is being compounded by a collapse in its flow of preferences from the Greens -- a deadly political cocktail that could see Labor reduced to a rump at the state election next year............

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/state-politics/landslide-loss-in-nsw-co...

where to now ??

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skippy.

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Re: Penrith votes
Reply #40 - Jun 21^st, 2010 at 2:45pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 21^st, 2010 at 2:39pm:

oooooohhhhhh, leftys, there may be a dislocating between the greens preferences and the alp.
As there should be.

Quote:

.................While the 24 per cent drop in Labor's primary vote was close to predictions, the collapse in the party's vote is being compounded by a collapse in its flow of preferences from the Greens -- a deadly political cocktail that could see Labor reduced to a rump at the state election next year............

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/state-politics/landslide-loss-in-nsw-co...

where to now ??

Did you get this from the OZ again sprint?
In NSW you dont have to preference, so if you want to vote 1 GREENS, that it all you have to do. In a federal election you DO HAVE TO preference, so GREENS voters like myself are forced to preference, I wont be preferencing a climate skeptic party, I cant see any real GREENS voters preferencing a climate skeptic party, its against everything a GREENS voter stands for.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40816 Gender:	Re: Penrith votes Reply #41 - Jun 21^st, 2010 at 2:49pm green voters do have some practicality in their minds and morals in their hearts. rudd is neither
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perceptions_now

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Re: Penrith votes
Reply #42 - Jun 21^st, 2010 at 2:57pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 20^th, 2010 at 7:59pm:

Longweekend:
Quote:

even labor luminaries are now predicting that federal labor wil be in oppoition for 'a generation'. perhaps a tad negative, but 12 years sounds about right. Rudd will have destroyed labor as badly as Whitlam did - perhaps worse.

I actually agree with Longweekend here & that is only
the 3rd time in 3 years.

Bobby,
There is actually good reason not to agree with LW, mainly because he is so often wrong!

Seriously, I suggested some time back that -
1) I couldn't see State Labor, in NSW, getting back at their next election.
2) There would be a sizeable swing away from Labor, at a state level and most State Labor would be hard pressed to win, with Victoria being in the best position.
3) Federal Labor would take a hit, but I suspect they will just get over the line.

Although a Liberal win is possible, I suspect the Abbott will become a liability, in the heat of battle?

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