Well it is unbelievably well over a month that oil has been spewing into the Gulf of Mexico, with no end in sight, and the greediest incarnation of human to ever evolve, "the dreaded oil company executive", have still failed to address the problem.
It would hardly be unfair or presumptuous to speculate that they have most probably spent more time and money researching how they can limit their liabilities from this disaster, than they have into actually fixing the leak.

So while Oil companies are allowed to put greater effort into promoting lies and disinformation about issues like Global Warming, than they do into implementing adequate safety protocols for their operations, whilst treating the whole planet with utter contempt, we have to ask how long can we allow these crooks to regulate themselves?
The whole issue of regulation is going to turn around, as normal people are fed up with the corporatisation of our society, where these behemoths place themselves above the laws of any nation, because of their wealth and power.
We are witnessing an arrogant indifference to the common people that would have even made the court of the Bourbon Royals blush with shame.
In fact the whole malaise where the obscenely wealthy and privileged are seemingly exempt from the restrictions placed on 'common' people, is frighteningly reminiscent of those pre-revolution days of debauchery and decadence.

People have already died, more will die, the eco-systems will be polluted for hundreds of years or more, and these execs will minimise their losses, evade responsibility, most likely by blaming an intoxicated worker, already dead, and unable to defend themselves, for a human error, and then avoid facing the financial responsibility for the mess they alone have made.

I am not overstating the case when I say these executives all deserve to spend a long time in jail.
They took hundreds of millions in salary, to be the ones responsible, to be the ones who decided what safety regulations to ignore, what protocols to refuse to comply with, what shortcuts their company could take to ensure the absolute greatest financial return for themselves and their shareholders.
Well now it is time to make them take that responsibility, for their actions.
In fact it would be prudent to assume that all documents that would display the cavalier neglect of safety protocols stemming from directives from the top, are being tracked down and destroyed with far greater zeal than any of the endeavours to actually cap the leak.

So while some will think that calling for the imprisonment of executives for crimes against humanity is an insane rant, the fact remains that this tragedy was avoidable, and those responsible for not avoiding it should be held accountable.
The locals who played no part in this tragedy are paying dearly, and will do so for a very long time to come, and they, and we deserve justice, and the corporations need to learn that they will be allowed to be a law unto themselves, no more.

yes, the spill is entirely of BP's doing.

be it an accident or result of poor practises, they should be made to foot the bill for all adversely affected by it.

Only the mindless fail to see the risk to democracy that large corporations represent.

I know you joke Locutius, but there will be people on the ground there, watching wildlife suffer and die horribly, they will see families lose everything, their businesses, their livelihoods, their homes, and their will be some, who would want someone to take responsibility, someone to pay the price, and who knows what sort of behaviours that could spark?

We already have Eco-Terrorists who are very extreme, and events like this will only inspire others to join them.
That is why governments need to be seen to be taking decisive punitive action against these corporate vandals, before the loonies try to do the job for them.

You can see this spill from space now, way to go BP, maybe you can challenge Exxon for the arseholes of the universe title this year?

The bigger the business, the greater its contempt for democracy.

No Mozz I was deadly serious..ok maybe about shooting them..maybe after the clean up give them a choice of a bullet or continue living in a third world nation employed as a factory hand, in one of the multinationals chemical factories or mining industries.

AFTER

making them personally, at a hands on level part of the clean up operation

...while living and eating with the locals that are affected....

then take all their money and assets

then put them in prision.... or the above, permanate residence in say Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh, India

watch the safety proceedures improve overnight...oh and possibly workers conditions in third world countries.

I think we should give the executives a few thousand rolls of duct tape and send them down in a submersible, and not let them come up until they fix it.

The fact that they do not have adequate systems to cope with this type of a leak shows how cavalier these corporations are when it comes to safety, which is partly why I am still opposed to nuclear power generation, I do not trust the bastards.

On the subject of what way to seal the pipe, I find it staggering that they do not have some simple devices that could do the job.
You would think that they would have back up plans in case something goes wrong, but I guess that would cost money that could be better spent on gold and jewel encrusted toilets for the executive washrooms.

I was reading a bit about the limited liability laws they have in the US, which means that BP will only be responsible for a maximum of 75 million in damages, cost over that will be met by the poor taxpayers.
It also pointed out that the oil industry will reap another 45 billion in Tax subsidies over the next ten years.

Thes guys are laughing all the way to the bank, they actually get subsidised for digging oil wells, as if they would not look for oil and dig it up if they did not get subsidies.

They are obscenely profitable, and obscenely corrupt, paying massive amounts to lobbyists to promote their personal interests above those of normal citizens.

The Exxon Valdez saga is a perfect example, they were ordered to pay 5 billion in damages, they fought it in court for twenty years, then had the damages dropped to 500 million, of which they can claim 40% tax deduction.
So, after holding out for twenty years, they paid just 300 million of the 5 billion they were ordered, while their gross misconduct caused the vastness and scale of a spill that is still impacting on the local environment, with many people suffering from illnesses possibly linked to the spill.
They should just make all these corporations join up, and call themselves, Evil Bastards Incorporated.

mozzaok wrote on Jun 6^th, 2010 at 5:05pm:



SHe has a point, of course. It is safer, and easier, to drill for oil on land than at sea.
It is certainly easier to prevent of fix problems on land (we are land animals, don't you know) than a mile under water. You have to be a Green not see that and to be fixated on 'Uhhh,  look what Palin said'.

Soren wrote on Jun 6^th, 2010 at 7:27pm:


You have to be a very "special" kind of right wing extremist to highlight the environmental movement's  opposition to oil drilling in environmentally sensitive areas, over the safety failings of an immensely wealthy and profitable oil company.

BP has a poor record on following correct safety procedures, especially when it costs money to do so.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126564739&ft=1&f=2
(this is a little background on the BP texas explosion where 15 men died, which happened to be on land, which should be safe as pie if Palin's argument were not so puerile.)
The philosophy of just hoping everything goes OK is certainly not good enough when human lives, and environmental catastrophes are the consequence for avoidance of safety, in favour of delivering a higher return to the shareholders.

So of note in Palin's attitude is that she seems to have a terribly biased attitude against any environmental concerns, and little concern about the big energy companies abiding by safe practices, which is a double whammy of wrongheadedness that only the most extreme, and ignorant neocon could ever justify.

BP should definitely be liable for the damage this oil spill has done on the gulf of Mexico, and lets hope the cost for the remedy are not socialised like the GFC was, but to some extent all the people must share some of the blame for this disaster because if the people would not consider it their right to drive Toorak Tractors to transport one person, there would be a lot less demand for energy, the oil price would plummet and the oil companies would not spend the money to explore for oil in deep water.
A motor car is a very convenient means of transport, unfortunately many people use it as an ego-booster, bigger, better and producing more pollution.Looking at the hundreds or maybe thousands different models of cars, the energy consumption for producing this different cars is an enormous waste of energy and could be greatly reduced by limiting the number of models, with parts interchangeable, but can any one imagine what this would do to the economy?
But can anyone image what will be the enviromental effect when all the people in India and China start to consume like all of us in the developed countries, and can anyone tell them that they are not entitled to it.

Quote:


http://abcnews.go.com/WN/spillionaires-hope-cash-bp-cleanup-continues/story?id=1...


Well that just makes it all okay then.

Alas, Helian...we live in vain hope...

Holy oil slick batpoop, that is one heck of a lot of garbage in our ocean, and now our air as well it seems.
This was a small quote from perceptions link;

"In total, 275 burns have been conducted to remove more than 9.32 million gallons of oil from the water. "

Well if they have burned around 10 MILLION gallons, how many million gallons are floating around in suspension at those super deep levels?

These guys should never been allowed to drill at such incredibly massive depths, it is just so wrong on so many levels.

A few days ago I was hearing people saying that the oil well cannot be capped because the technology does not exist to deal with the unprecedented pressure from the unprecedented depth of this well. Now I am seeing the same views being expressed in online networks, and that there is a coverup going on about how bad this is, and that it actually cannot be stopped.

there seems to be a definite undercurrent of informed community commentary about how bad this really is, and this seems just today to be reaching the internet. Yes, I have also heard that there are complications along fault lines with oil going in different directions. I have heard that this well is of the magnitude of the Arabian ones that have been gushing oil continuously for 70 years with no end in sight. The problem now with the Mexico Gulf one appears to be the enormous pressure from it because it is so deep into the earth's crust, at tectonic plate level, that it may happen that it cannot ever be controlled. Today I heard predictions that the entire eastern coast of America could be ruined, extending around the Atlantic, even northern Europe, and widespread serious health complications for millions of people. I hope this is incorrect, but the rumours only seem to be increasing.

that's the report.
I heard a commentary which I thought was significant, that oil is not just a "fossil fuel" it is the lubricant for the earth's tectonic plates, removing it can interfere with those processes. Given that there has already been major earthquakes in Haiti, it makes you wonder what damage is really being done that we are not being told about.

Muso, can you explain why it's not plausible please?

Thank you for that, Muso.

Is this possible?

Quote:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 4:38pm:


Only in a Hollywood movie   It reminds me of "2012" I don't think I've ever seen so many absurdities in one paragraph.

I am hearing that the massive amounts of benzene are going to create a ground zero of health programs affecting millions of people, not just in America.

Better see what's goin' down here, folks. This is a LOT worse than you think. Even Australian 60 Minutes gets a mention.

... and what about Ms Arnesen, what a speaker, what a leader. I'll bet she's not a leftie though. Wonder whether she'd like to migrate to Australia and take up a position as leader of a political party here. Leaves them absolutely for dead. Brilliant.  The only thing is she's talking about the disaster at sea level, what's going on deep down, very few people seem to know. Check it out folks, this is real, scary stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkYJDI8pK9Y

Thanks, that's useful re the chemicals. You obviously aren't doing too much extra reading about this though. You seem to be behind the momentum of newsbreak and internet commentary. With respect.

"they will cause problems in the foodchain in the Gulf" -
I would say that there isn't a foodchain left in the Gulf or soon won't be; and if my humble schooldays science is any guide to me, humans are part of that foodchain aren't they. With respect.

"they'll have to restrict catches from the Gulf" ! They'll be restricting all right, there'll be nothing left.
With respect.

I don't know what I'm talking about eh. I hope you do.
With respect.
With respect: you sound like an industry operative.
with respect.
but thanks; and I recommend doing some reading outside the square.
with respect.

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 6:55pm:


Do you know what they should do? If they had a government with balls, they'd confiscate all the profits of BP in the US until they had  rehabilitated all the areas affected by the spill, including the seafloor. Suddenly Oil and Gas production would seem less profitable.

mantra wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 9:36am:


Mantra - I know that I can say things like that to you because of the obvious resilience of your character.

Your heart is in the right place, but please don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Letters from Readers Digest stating that you've won a multimillion dollar prize should also be treated with extreme suspicion. 

As a rule, I tend not to post or do anything else out of self interest.  For example, I once donated a salary bonus to charity because I didn't think I had earned it.

muso wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 10:12am:


Yes I am resilient aren't I? But don't ever say I'm thick skinned. 

Quote:


I've got no idea what those ratios are and it would probably take me an hour or so to figure them out.

Muso - oil is one of nature's lubricants. Some scientists believe it is the earth's blood - we can bleed it a little, but when we sever an artery - it takes more than a couple of bandaids to stem the flow.

muso wrote on Jun 27^th, 2010 at 9:05am:


Seems people are getting sick now just from breathing the air even long distances from the sea. Don't just have to eat the fish.
Humans will soak in the acidity and the chemicals in the air by breathing just as effectively as if they ate the fish. Even if you swam in that sea now, and didn't swallow any of the water, you would ingest stuff through the skin.
Holistic, muso, wholistic. Humans are *part* of the the *whole*. Not understanding that, and compartmentalising science from the rest is what is causing a lot of the world's problems.
What is it doing to the earth by ripping out all of this oil for a hundred years? Nothing? For what purpose it is there - oh, I see, the earth produced oil so that we could have motor cars. Right. How could I have been so stupid not to know that.

So, still no end in sight, and arsenic eruptions as well!
I wonder if this is going to end.
http://www.news.com.au/world/more-bad-news-for-bp-as-arsenic-levels-rise-in-seawater-around-the-gulf-of-mexico/story-e6frfkyi-1225888272667

shampain socialist wrote on Jul 10^th, 2010 at 1:45pm:


Which reports?

OMG - It's Richard Hoagland. I thought he'd been captured by Martians.  

This Richard Hoagland:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/Chandra-NASA-Accusation.htm

http://www.helium.com/items/1864136-how-the-ultimate-bp-gulf-disaster-could-kill-millions

ho-hum; it's out there, just google it.

Here is one of Hoagland's reports, which is probably behind most of the nonsense that's being reported:

http://www.oilspillupdates.com/oil-spill-videos/richard-c-hoagland-reports-on-bp...

On the bright side, such reports might shock the public against fossil fuels, but I don't think that's the purpose of Hoagland's publicity stunt.

If you Google Hoagland, you'll see that he's capable of being a multi-tasking nut. He's also a climate denialist.

shampain socialist wrote on Jul 10^th, 2010 at 11:01pm:


Well the well is certainly not as deep as the deepest gas wells. We can tell that because it's an associated gas field - associated with crude oil. The really deep gas fields are mostly methane with no oil, and the deeper you go, the less condensate it contains.

As well as that, the deeper you get, the higher the pressure and the drier the gas. The main problem is the explosion that occurred, which made it difficult to seal the line. 

If you want to know my background in Oil and Gas, I'll tell you privately.

By the way, the maximum reservoir pressure of any gas field is around 3000 psi (about 20,000kPa) and it's  in Kazakhstan. At 100,000 psi, we'd be dealing with essentially solid methane LOL.

A bit late, but always worth a watch.

This is from;
http://www.visualeconomics.com/what-bp-could-have-bought-with-all-the-money-they...

All the Things BP Could Buy With the Money Lost from the Oil Spill:

BP could have bought 10 years of clean water for each of the 884 million people in the world without access to it. The cost would be $8.84 billion, or $1 per year per person.

BP could also have bought a new home to replace each of the 275,000 lost in Hurricane Katrina. The cost would be $48.125 billion at the median New Orleans market rate of $175,000.

With the lost money, BP could also have bought an ice cream sandwich for everyone on Earth. The cost of $3.395 billion included a 0.50 sandwich from Walmart for each person.

The company could have also purchased Yahoo, Inc. Its market value according to Yahoo Finance is $20.069 billion.

BP could have also bought a 2010 Toyota Prius for each of BP’s 92,000 employees. The cars would cost $21,400 each for a total of $1.968 billion.

The company could also have purchased a copy of the book Sh*t My Dad Says for every user on Twitter. At $8.79 each of Amazon.com, the total for the books is $922 million.

BP could also have purchased Twitter itself for a cost of $1 billion, according to its 2009 valuation.

With the lost money, BP could add an island in the Bahamas to their purchases. Lighthouse Cay has four miles of beachfront and costs $33.3 million.

BP could also purchase a pogo stick for every elementary school kid in the U.S. At $25 each from Amazon.com, the toys would cost a total of $621.25 million.

BP could also supply a three-pack of condoms to every teenager in the U.S. If they got the 1,000 count discount packs from Amazon.com, the condoms would cost $8.45 million.

The lost income could also purchase an iPad for every college student in the U.S. at a total cost of $8.305 billion.

BP could purchase a trip to outer space for every U.S. Senator. At $30 million each from Space Adventures, the total cost would be $3 billion.

BP could also have purchased a year’s sponsorship for one million needy kids at Children International. At $22 per month per child, the total cost would be $264 million.

BP could buy a three-wolf t-shirt for every person in America. At $10.99 on Amazon.com, the total cost would be $3.432 billion. BP could also buy a second wolf shirt for every person in Idaho. At 10.99 each, the total would be $17 million.

The total cost of all of these items is $100,000,000,000. This is how much BP stock has lost as of June 2010. This doesn’t include the $3.5+ billion spent in recovery efforts so far.

Visual Economics: What BP Could Have Bought With All the Money They Lost | http://www.visualeconomics.com/what-bp-could-have-bought-with-all-the-money-they-lost/#ixzz0xIexvY00
http://www.visualeconomics.com/