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Re: Climate Science (Read 80978 times)
muso
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #435 - Apr 16th, 2011 at 8:35am
 
Let's face it, solar energy is coming. Well, it's already there in some parts of the world.

As supplies dwindle, the price of Oil will continue to rise and alternatives will become financially viable. Coal is more of a concern though.

Even if we could get governments to stop subsidising coal mining and oil production, renewable energy might have a chance. It seems ridiculous to be doing that at a time like this.

a Carbon Tax is one thing, but if the government stopped indirect subsidies to coal mining alone, it would free up the equivalent of $1500 per annum for every man woman and child in Australia.
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Foolosophy
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #436 - Apr 16th, 2011 at 11:17am
 
The U.S. coal industry enjoyed subsidies of around $17 billion between 2002 and 2008, including tax credits for production of "nonconventional" fuels ($14.1 billion), tax breaks on coal royalties ($986 million), exploration, and development breaks ($342 million)

And on top of that we have a banking and ginancial system that structures its loaning habits AWAY from renewables and sustainable energy options.

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astro_surf
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #437 - Apr 16th, 2011 at 12:24pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 10:02pm:
And it's just SUCH a shame that Al Gore's 'drowning polar bears' have been discredited, and laughed at, by almost everyone on the planet...


This is what happens when you spend so much time with your head shoved so firmly up your own arse (colloquially known as "the denialosphere"), you lose all sense of proportion and think that the incessant bleating of misinformation coming from a small number of fringe activists actually constitutes "almost everyone on the planet".

Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth, reality rolls on unabated while real scientists patiently document them by making observations and collating data:

Quote:
Climate change is causing a polar bear population drop
February 10, 2011 BY Laura Boness

Researchers have linked the loss of sea ice to the declining sizes of polar bear litters in Hudson Bay.

The polar bear population in Hudson Bay has dropped from 1200 to 900 in the past decade. As they are the most southerly population, they are the first to be affected by climate change.

Lead researcher Peter Molnar from the University of Alberta, Canada, stated in the press release “if temperatures across the Arctic continue to rise, much of the global population of polar bears will be at risk.”

Molnar and colleagues Andrew Derocher and Mark Lewis have analysed how long Hudson Bay is frozen during the polar bear’s hunting season and the amount of energy able to be stored by pregnant females. The females then survive on their fat stores for up to eight months in their maternity dens.

If the females are unable to store enough energy, they will either naturally abort or will not enter their maternity dens. In the early 1990S, 28 percent of pregnant polar bears in Hudson Bay didn’t give birth.


According to Derocher “An early spring-ice break up reduces the hunting season, making it difficult for pregnant females to even support themselves, let alone give birth to and raise cubs.”

The researchers have calculated if the spring ice break occurs one month earlier than it did in 1990, 40 to 73 percent of females will not have a cub. If it occurs two months earlier, these numbers are estimated to be between 55 and 100 percent.

Molnar says “Projected reductions in the number of newborn cubs are a significant threat to the western Hudson Bay polar-bear population. If climate change continues unabated the viability of the species across much of the Arctic will be in question.
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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11th, 2011 at 11:23am:
So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #438 - Apr 16th, 2011 at 12:47pm
 
astro_surf wrote on Apr 16th, 2011 at 12:24pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 10:02pm:
And it's just SUCH a shame that Al Gore's 'drowning polar bears' have been discredited, and laughed at, by almost everyone on the planet...


This is what happens when you spend so much time with your head shoved so firmly up your own arse (colloquially known as "the denialosphere"), you lose all sense of proportion and think that the incessant bleating of misinformation coming from a small number of fringe activists actually constitutes "almost everyone on the planet".

Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth, reality rolls on unabated while real scientists patiently document them by making observations and collating data:

Quote:
Climate change is causing a polar bear population drop
February 10, 2011 BY Laura Boness

Researchers have linked the loss of sea ice to the declining sizes of polar bear litters in Hudson Bay.

The polar bear population in Hudson Bay has dropped from 1200 to 900 in the past decade. As they are the most southerly population, they are the first to be affected by climate change.

Lead researcher Peter Molnar from the University of Alberta, Canada, stated in the press release “if temperatures across the Arctic continue to rise, much of the global population of polar bears will be at risk.”

Molnar and colleagues Andrew Derocher and Mark Lewis have analysed how long Hudson Bay is frozen during the polar bear’s hunting season and the amount of energy able to be stored by pregnant females. The females then survive on their fat stores for up to eight months in their maternity dens.

If the females are unable to store enough energy, they will either naturally abort or will not enter their maternity dens. In the early 1990S, 28 percent of pregnant polar bears in Hudson Bay didn’t give birth.


According to Derocher “An early spring-ice break up reduces the hunting season, making it difficult for pregnant females to even support themselves, let alone give birth to and raise cubs.”

The researchers have calculated if the spring ice break occurs one month earlier than it did in 1990, 40 to 73 percent of females will not have a cub. If it occurs two months earlier, these numbers are estimated to be between 55 and 100 percent.

Molnar says “Projected reductions in the number of newborn cubs are a significant threat to the western Hudson Bay polar-bear population. If climate change continues unabated the viability of the species across much of the Arctic will be in question.



And what's happening with the OTHER 12 polar bear populations????

Look at this graph:
http://pbsg.npolar.no/en/status/status-table.html

That's 4 'stable or increasing', 8 'declining' and 7 'we don't have any info'...

How much of the decline due to hunting, particularly in the Western Hudson Bay stock, and reduced food supply due to fishing and seal hunting???
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Foolosophy
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #439 - Apr 16th, 2011 at 1:08pm
 
LOOK!

LOOK AT THE GIFTS WE ARE GIVING OUR CHILDREN


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astro_surf
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #440 - Apr 18th, 2011 at 9:19pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Apr 16th, 2011 at 12:47pm:
And what's happening with the OTHER 12 polar bear populations????

Look at this graph:
http://pbsg.npolar.no/en/status/status-table.html

That's 4 'stable or increasing', 8 'declining' and 7 'we don't have any info'...

How much of the decline due to hunting, particularly in the Western Hudson Bay stock, and reduced food supply due to fishing and seal hunting???


LOL! And this is your evidence that climate change isn't impacting poar bears??? That a majority are of polar bear populations are in decline and at high risk of declining further in the future? You didn't stop to consider that the PBSG  take the warming Arctic into account when looking at population decline? Wow. And you wonder why peopl call you deniers.

But, since you ask about Hudson Bay, it happen to be the most studied population in the Arctic so the causes of the decline are well understood, as are the likely impacts of a declining ice sheet.

Quote:
The effects of global warming are most profound in the southern part of the polar bear's range, and this is indeed where significant degradation of local populations has been observed.[118] The Western Hudson Bay subpopulation, in a southern part of the range, also happens to be one of the best-studied polar bear subpopulations. This subpopulation feeds heavily on ringed seals in late spring, when newly weaned and easily hunted seal pups are abundant.[109] The late spring hunting season ends for polar bears when the ice begins to melt and break up, and they fast or eat little during the summer until the sea freezes again.[109]

Due to warming air temperatures, ice-floe breakup in western Hudson Bay is currently occurring three weeks earlier than it did 30 years ago, reducing the duration of the polar bear feeding season.[109] The body condition of polar bears has declined during this period; the average weight of lone (and likely pregnant) female polar bears was approximately 290 kg (640 lb) in 1980 and 230 kg (510 lb) in 2004.[109] Between 1987 and 2004, the Western Hudson Bay population declined by 22%.[121]

In Alaska, the effects of sea ice shrinkage have contributed to higher mortality rates in polar bear cubs, and have led to changes in the denning locations of pregnant females.[78][122] Recently, polar bears in the Arctic have undertaken longer than usual swims to find prey, resulting in four recorded drownings in the unusually large ice pack regression of 2005.[119]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_bear#Observations_linked_to_global_warming


And, no, hunting doesn't appear to be a primary cause of the observed declines (hunting has actually decreased over the last decade) but it DOES appear that seal populations are also being negatively impacted bythe rapidly warming Arctic

Quote:
Warm winters in the Gulf of St. Lawrence have led to thinner and more unstable ice there. In 2007, Canada's federal fisheries ministry reported that while the pups are born on the ice as usual, the ice floes have started to break up before the pups learn to swim, causing the pups to drown.[43] Canada reduced the 2007 quota by 20%, because overflights showed large numbers of seal pups were lost to thin and melting ice.[44] In southern Labrador and off Newfoundland's northeast coast, however, there was extra heavy ice in 2007, and the coast guard estimated as many as 100 vessels were trapped in ice simultaneously.[45][46]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunting#Canada
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« Last Edit: Apr 18th, 2011 at 10:13pm by astro_surf »  

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11th, 2011 at 11:23am:
So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&
 
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astro_surf
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #441 - Apr 18th, 2011 at 10:01pm
 
And while we're on the subject of the stunning Arctic warming, far beyond what models were predicting only five years ago

...

Quote:
Extreme Warming Forces Climate Scientists To Add Hot Pink To Temperature Map

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/winter2011temps.jpg

As global warming from unlimited fossil fuel burning accelerates, the Arctic is being radically transformed. This winter saw large regions of Canada and Greenland about 10°C (about 15-20°F) above the historical average. Temperatures in eastern Canada in the dead of winter were a staggering 21°C (37.8°F) above average. The extreme Arctic warming is wreaking havoc with the polar ecosystems and is linked to the catastrophic snowstorms that pummeled the United States. In a summary of how global climate change is becoming observable to people in their daily lives, NASA scientist James Hansen was forced to redraw his global map with hot pink:

   The temperature anomaly in the Arctic — the amount that current temperatures differ from historical norms — is now so severe that NASA’s James Hansen had to add a new color to his charts in order to accurately depict it: Hot pink.

“One sure bet is that this decade will be the warmest in history,” Hansen writes in his survey.
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« Last Edit: Apr 18th, 2011 at 10:07pm by astro_surf »  

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11th, 2011 at 11:23am:
So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&
 
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Foolosophy
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #442 - Apr 18th, 2011 at 10:35pm
 
The Nobel Prize winning Chemist Svante Arrhenius published a wonderful article where he predicted what the earth's temperature will rise to if the CO2 level was increased by a factor of 2.5

In 1896


http://www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf
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muso
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #443 - Apr 19th, 2011 at 6:28am
 
astro_surf wrote on Apr 18th, 2011 at 9:19pm:
LOL! And this is your evidence that climate change isn't impacting polar bears???


We're talking about something that can potentially decimate the world population if we don't do something soon, and here's Al Gore going on about polar bears?

We're currently one crisis away from another GFC, because oil supply is on a knife edge. We should be investing heavily in alternatives now. The 2020 target is too low.
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« Last Edit: Apr 19th, 2011 at 10:13am by muso »  

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astro_surf
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #444 - Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:15am
 
muso wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 6:28am:
astro_surf wrote on Apr 18th, 2011 at 9:19pm:
LOL! And this is your evidence that climate change isn't impacting polar bears???


We're talking about something that can potentially decimate the world population if we don't do something soon, and here's Al Gore going on about polar bears?


Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, but doesn't make the falsehood any less false. A warming Arctic is demonstrably impacting on polar bear populations.
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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11th, 2011 at 11:23am:
So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&
 
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muso
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #445 - Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:25am
 
astro_surf wrote on Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:15am:
muso wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 6:28am:
astro_surf wrote on Apr 18th, 2011 at 9:19pm:
LOL! And this is your evidence that climate change isn't impacting polar bears???


We're talking about something that can potentially decimate the world population if we don't do something soon, and here's Al Gore going on about polar bears?


Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, but doesn't make the falsehood any less false. A warming Arctic is demonstrably impacting on polar bear populations.



The latest figures for March 2011 show the second lowest extent of Sea Ice on record after 2006. Considering the fact that we have a strong La Nina combined with low solar activity, this year should be colder than average, but it isn't shaping up that way so far.  

It doesn't augur well for the future.
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #446 - Apr 20th, 2011 at 10:03am
 


Well I've changed my mind on the matter, if charles manson is a believer, then it must be true.  Grin



Crazed cult leader Charles Manson has broken a 20-year silence in a prison interview coinciding with the 40th anniversary of his conviction for the gruesome Sharon Tate murders - to speak out about global warming.

The infamous killer, who started championing environmental causes from behind bars, bemoaned the 'bad things' being done to environment in a rambling phone interview from his Californian jail cell.

'Everyone’s God and if we don’t wake up to that there’s going to be no weather because our polar caps are melting because we’re doing bad things to the atmosphere.

'If we don’t change that as rapidly as I’m speaking to you now, if we don’t put the green back on the planet and put the trees back that we’ve butchered, if we don’t go to war against the problem...' he added, trailing off.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378178/Charles-Manson-breaks-20-year-silence-40th-anniversary-gruesome-Sharon-Tate-murders.html
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Foolosophy
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #447 - Apr 20th, 2011 at 10:15am
 
....so Manson brushed up on his Climatology and Atmospheric Physics whilst he was in jail

Here we see the Plenary Speaker, Professor Manson at the recent International Penetentiary Congress on Environmental Mitigational Strategies

...
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astro_surf
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #448 - Apr 20th, 2011 at 7:57pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:25am:
astro_surf wrote on Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:15am:
muso wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 6:28am:
astro_surf wrote on Apr 18th, 2011 at 9:19pm:
LOL! And this is your evidence that climate change isn't impacting polar bears???


We're talking about something that can potentially decimate the world population if we don't do something soon, and here's Al Gore going on about polar bears?


Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, but doesn't make the falsehood any less false. A warming Arctic is demonstrably impacting on polar bear populations.



The latest figures for March 2011 show the second lowest extent of Sea Ice on record after 2006. Considering the fact that we have a strong La Nina combined with low solar activity, this year should be colder than average, but it isn't shaping up that way so far.  

It doesn't augur well for the future.



And, as I am sure you well know, less white, reflective, sea ice means more exposed dark, absorbent, water - meaning more energy being absorbed into the climate system. And the frightening, yet very real, threat is if those Arctic oceans warm enough to begin melting the massive stores of methane that are currently frozen in the sea bed. There is good evidence that such a methane "burp" was associated with the Jurassic period extinction event.

A scenario infinitely grimmer than the loss of a single, iconic species.
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Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 11th, 2011 at 11:23am:
So tell me, you'd like to see more and more craphouse coloured people in Australia right?&&Yeah good idea moron.&&
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #449 - Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:32pm
 
astro_surf wrote on Apr 20th, 2011 at 7:57pm:
muso wrote on Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:25am:
astro_surf wrote on Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:15am:
muso wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 6:28am:
astro_surf wrote on Apr 18th, 2011 at 9:19pm:
LOL! And this is your evidence that climate change isn't impacting polar bears???


We're talking about something that can potentially decimate the world population if we don't do something soon, and here's Al Gore going on about polar bears?


Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, but doesn't make the falsehood any less false. A warming Arctic is demonstrably impacting on polar bear populations.



The latest figures for March 2011 show the second lowest extent of Sea Ice on record after 2006. Considering the fact that we have a strong La Nina combined with low solar activity, this year should be colder than average, but it isn't shaping up that way so far.  

It doesn't augur well for the future.



And, as I am sure you well know, less white, reflective, sea ice means more exposed dark, absorbent, water - meaning more energy being absorbed into the climate system. And the frightening, yet very real, threat is if those Arctic oceans warm enough to begin melting the massive stores of methane that are currently frozen in the sea bed. There is good evidence that such a methane "burp" was associated with the Jurassic period extinction event.

A scenario infinitely grimmer than the loss of a single, iconic species.


Which is an excellent reason, to try to slow the whole process down!

Given that the human introduced GHG's appear to be accelerating the process, at a greater rate than the usual cycle, that would seem to be a prime target!



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