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Re: Climate Science (Read 80945 times)
JC Denton
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #300 - Dec 18th, 2010 at 10:20pm
 
Were you taking that joke post seriously or were you just using it as an excuse to springboard off some factoids Wink
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Soren
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #301 - Dec 18th, 2010 at 10:21pm
 
muso wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 9:55pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 9:17pm:
muso wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 8:10pm:
It's much easier to read 50 years ahead than it is to read 250 million years ago.





Sure it is. If you are a boffin, anything's possible.






We're not talking about predicting anything other than mean global temperatures.



What did I tell ya? Its statistics, climate science is.



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muso
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #302 - Dec 23rd, 2010 at 9:40am
 
Many branches of science use statistics.  That doesn't mean that they are statistics.

How should I phrase this ? It's an ontological issue.
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perceptions_now
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #303 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 2:37pm
 
La Nina blamed for weather upset, but climate link unclear


PARIS — Experts pin the floods that have ravaged northeastern Australia on a weather phenomenon known as La Nina but are cautious whether the peril could be amplified by climate change.

La Nina, or "girl child," is the counterpart of El Nino, or "boy child," together comprising a pendular swing of extreme weather that affects the Pacific Rim but can be disruptive as far as the coast of southern Africa.

El Nino occurs when the trade winds that circulate surface water in the tropical Pacific start to weaken.

A mass of warm water builds in the western Pacific and eventually rides over to the eastern side of the ocean.

The outcome is a major shift in rainfall, bringing floods and mudslides to usually arid countries in western South America and drought in the western Pacific, as well as a change in nutrient-rich ocean currents that lure fish.

Eventually, El Nino peters out, sometimes when a cold phase -- La Nina -- starts to dominate.

At that point, the reverse happens: countries in the eastern Pacific face drier weather and those on the west, such as Australia's Queensland, get drenched.

"2010 began with El Nino conditions in the Pacific followed by a rapid transition into La Nina during (the southern hemisphere's) autumn," Australia's Bureau of Meteorology says on its website.

"(...) By July, La Nina conditions were well established and most areas of Australia experienced very much above average rainfall. The second half of the year (July to December) was the wettest on record for Australia."


In the 20th century, scientists identified 25 moderate or strong El Ninos and 17 episodes of La Nina. The toll to human life and property, in droughts and floods, has sometimes been huge.

The back-and-forth cycle -- formally known as the El Nino/La Nina-Southern Oscillation, or ENSO -- occurs every two to seven years.

Because sea temperature plays such an important role, some climate experts are keen to determine whether man-made global warming might make it more frequent or vicious.

Prudence, though, is the watchword. ENSO is a complex mechanism and reliable oceanographic data reaches back only a century or so, which is minute given that climate history spans billions of years.

"There is no consistent indication at this time of discernible changes in projected ENSO amplitude or frequency in the 21st century," the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) crisply announced in its Fourth Assessment Report in 2007.

In an interview with AFP, Baylor Fox-Kemper, an oceanographer at the University of Colorado, explained: "Many models indicate that there is a link between El Nino and climate change, but they don't agree as to what that change should be.

"Furthermore, El Nino is so noisy [a term meaning complex] that it takes many centuries of data to be sure that a change has occurred.

"Since we have only a limited amount of trusted real-world data, we are unable to validate which of these models is closest to the truth."

Others say that despite the unknowns, logic dictates that global warming is bound to have an impact on ENSO.

"With a warmer world, one would expect the atmosphere to hold more moisture, so that when it does rain, it is heavier," said New Zealand specialist Jim Salinger.

"So La Nina rainfall events are expected to be more intense... (although) at this stage, it is not known whether La Nina events will become more frequent."


Link -
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iBfsIWgwO-VrPz-HOxdzN65JwFqw?...
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mozzaok
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #304 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 10:29pm
 
It is pretty premature for anyone to try and link individual weather events as being evidence either for or against global warming.

As many have already said, the "statistics" side of the evidence of global warming is pretty much just recording the increasing global temperature, which despite severe local weather events, is still rising, inexorably.

No doubt we are interested about speculation on what effects we may expect to see, but I think the most we can hope to be able to verify at this stage, is if these severe weather events are becoming more or less frequent.
I have heard people arguing this case, but am yet to see any statistics to verify that opinion, or even to quantify it.

So in the meantime, we can continue to argue, and watch as global mean temps continue to rise.

If you are getting your info from places that deny that basic point, then maybe you should consider the veracity of your trusted sources.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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beware
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #305 - Jan 8th, 2011 at 4:43pm
 
CRAP>>>>>>
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perceptions_now
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #306 - Jan 9th, 2011 at 12:11pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 10:29pm:
It is pretty premature for anyone to try and link individual weather events as being evidence either for or against global warming.
As many have already said, the "statistics" side of the evidence of global warming is pretty much just recording the increasing global temperature, which despite severe local weather events, is still rising, inexorably.

No doubt we are interested about speculation on what effects we may expect to see, but I think the most we can hope to be able to verify at this stage, is if these severe weather events are becoming more or less frequent.
I have heard people arguing this case, but am yet to see any statistics to verify that opinion, or even to quantify it.

So in the meantime, we can continue to argue, and watch as global mean temps continue to rise.

If you are getting your info from places that deny that basic point, then maybe you should consider the veracity of your trusted sources.


I agree, in fact that may well never be possbile.

That said, I think it is very clear that -
1) The Climate is changing.
2) We (humans) have impacted the environment & climate.

The questions that remain is how much that impact has been and can we change the climate to a situation where we can live with it?
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perceptions_now
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #307 - Jan 9th, 2011 at 12:36pm
 
beware wrote on Jan 8th, 2011 at 4:43pm:
CRAP>>>>>>


You should beware, lest people do not understand what your CRAP means!
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muso
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #308 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:15am
 
Well I'm very glad that I wasn't in Toowoomba yesterday. Missed it by >< that much.
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perceptions_now
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #309 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 2:31pm
 
muso wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:15am:
Well I'm very glad that I wasn't in Toowoomba yesterday. Missed it by >< that much.


I gather you live somewhere close to Toowoomba?

How are you situated, personally, are the floods close by where you live or are you ok, from that viewpoint?

I'm sure, I speak for all, when I say, keep safe!
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #310 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 9:26am
 
perceptions_now wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 2:31pm:
muso wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:15am:
Well I'm very glad that I wasn't in Toowoomba yesterday. Missed it by >< that much.


I gather you live somewhere close to Toowoomba?

How are you situated, personally, are the floods close by where you live or are you ok, from that viewpoint?

I'm sure, I speak for all, when I say, keep safe!


I'm ok now, but I have been cut off by floodwaters several times and have had to take three helicopter trips (non emergency) so far to get out.

I don't live anywhere near Toowomba, but I was there the day before the flash flooding, and I was in Brisbane the next day. 

The weather is totally insane. At least that Low Pressure system near New Caledonia should keep us dry for a few days.
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #311 - Jan 13th, 2011 at 3:51pm
 
2010 tied for Earth's warmest year on record


Last year tied with 2005 as the world's warmest on record, according to data released Wednesday by the National Climatic Data Center. Records began in 1880.
It was also the wettest year on record globally as measured by average precipitation, according to the center. Heavy rain in Asia due to the monsoon (which led to disastrous floods in Pakistan) and tropical storms in Central America contributed to the extreme precipitation amounts.

The Earth's average temperature in 2010, as in 2005, was 58.12 degrees, which is 1.12 degrees above the 20th-century average of 57 degrees.

It was the 34th consecutive year that the global temperature was above average, according to the data center. The last below-average year was 1976.

"This warmth reinforces the notion that we're seeing climate change," says David Easterling, chief of scientific services at the data center in Asheville, N.C.

Not so fast, says Pat Michaels, a climatologist with the Cato Institute in Washington. "If you draw a trend line from the data, it's pretty flat from the 1990s. We don't see much of a warming trend over the past 12 years."

He says the gloom-and-doom projections on global warming are likely to be too hot. "The projections will have to come down," Michaels says.

The climate center reports that the global land surface temperatures for 2010 were the warmest on record, at 1.80 degrees above the 20th-century average. The global ocean surface temperature for 2010 tied with 2005 as the third-warmest on record, at 0.88 degrees above the 20th-century average.

Several exceptional heat waves occurred during 2010, the center reported, bringing record high temperatures and affecting tens of millions of people. Russia endured an unprecedented two-month heat wave last summer: On July 29, the Moscow Observatory recorded its highest-ever temperature of 100.8 degrees.

"Although we can't attribute any individual event to climate change," Easterling says, "the probability of these events does increase as the climate warms."

Center data show the global average surface temperature has risen more than 1 degree since the start of the 20th century. Much of the warmth occurred in the past three decades. Nine of the Earth's 10 warmest years on record have occurred since 2001, and all 12 of the warmest years have occurred since 1997.

In a separate global temperature report released last week, 2010 finished in a tie with 1998 for the warmest year in the 32-year satellite temperature record, according to John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama-Huntsville (UAH).

Unlike the climate center's surface-based temperatures, UAH's data are based on instruments aboard satellites from NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that measure the temperature of the atmosphere from the surface up to an altitude of about 5 miles above sea level.

The satellite data show that the globe continues to warm unevenly. Warming increases as you go north: The Arctic Ocean has warmed an average of almost 3 degrees in the past 32 years.

Another global surface temperature report released Wednesday — from NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York — said 2010 tied 2005 as the warmest year.

Link -
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2011-01-12-2010-warmest-ye...
================
Warmer & Wetter!
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muso
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #312 - Jan 15th, 2011 at 7:55am
 
Have you seen the latest SOI graph? This latest La Nina is a real doozie. If you search the records for another +27, you won't find one - and I thought it had peaked in October.  Past trends in climate data are becoming less useful.

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Re: Climate Science
Reply #313 - Jan 15th, 2011 at 9:30am
 
muso wrote on Jan 15th, 2011 at 7:55am:
Have you seen the latest SOI graph? This latest La Nina is a real doozie. If you search the records for another +27, you won't find one - and I thought it had peaked in October.  Past trends in climate data are becoming less useful.



Well, perhaps one, guess when ?


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muso
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Re: Climate Science
Reply #314 - Jan 15th, 2011 at 11:17am
 
Yeah - the '74 floods. I'm hoping that the next few months will be drier. It will give us a chance to recover.

Of course we'll really start to suffer if it turns back to El Nino for any length of time.
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