Australian Politics Forum - Comedy central bows to terrorism

mozzaok

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Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism
Reply #30 - Apr 30^th, 2010 at 9:46am

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Muslims have no jurisdiction to control what happens in non-Muslim countries, so it's moot anyway.

Well that is precisely the issue Abu, muslims do not accept that they do not have jurisdiction over whatever they think they should, wherever they think they should, and whenever they think they should.

They even carry this idea of having a divine right to universal jurisdiction, by mere dint of the fact that they are muslims, by subjectively judging the deeds of others and applying whatever penalty they deem fit, up to and including summary execution.

That is a major issue for non-muslims to have to deal with, and a significant and valid source of the enmity felt for Islam.

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freediver

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Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism
Reply #31 - Apr 30^th, 2010 at 9:20pm

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We believe he is beyond reproach in all respects, so no.

Look as I said, this comes down to jurisdiction. Muslims have no jurisdiction to control what happens in non-Muslim countries, so it's moot anyway.

You sound like you are confused about whether you believe in freedom of speech.

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When he makes his claim for status as emissary of God, ask me again.

Would your answer change then?

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You think your limits to freedom are universal.

No Abu. Once you get into the details it is not universal. Rights and freedom always come into conflict. However, the principle of one person's freedom ending where it infringes on the rights and freedoms of another is universal, and it is fundamentally different from your view. You do not merely have a 'different' view of freedom, you oppose it.

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Likewise I personally believe mine are universal however I don't promote that idea in this discussion, since I know you don't recognise them as universal.

You sound confused again. Are you saying that your concept of freedom is unversal, or that you ideas on how people should be oppressed are universal, even though they aren't universal because people disagree with them?

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They are collections of corroborated reports of what he said and did.

So the koran is the bit written by Muhammed, hat happens to lack any reference to banning images?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism
Reply #32 - Apr 30^th, 2010 at 10:03pm

mozza,

Quote:

Well that is precisely the issue Abu, muslims do not accept that they do not have jurisdiction over whatever they think they should, wherever they think they should, and whenever they think they should.

A coupla guys write something in a blog, and you run around claiming "Muslims" do not accept that... If you are going to continually base your opinions of "Muslims" (ie. about 1.6 billion people) on what a few individuals do, then discussing with you is fruitless.

The overwhelming majority of Muslims do accept they have no jurisdiction over it, and do not do that.

Just like the overwhelming majority of Christians don't gun down abortion doctors or the vast majority of atheists don't slaughter millions of people in "purges" of former regimes. You need to learn how to judge people based on the overwhelming majority, not the tiny miniscule minority the media spoonfeeds info about to you. Stop being such a mindless stooge.

Quote:

They even carry this idea of having a divine right to universal jurisdiction

That's funny, because I only see one country invading, threatening, domineering most other countries, claiming it has universal jurisdiction, and it ain't a Muslim one, I'll tell you that now.

Again, when will you wake up from spewing forth this mindless crap?

Quote:

That is a major issue for non-muslims to have to deal with, and a significant and valid source of the enmity felt for Islam.

No, the source of your enmity is your xenophobic bigotry plain and simple. This reminds me of the Nazi propaganda campaigns of explaining away why it was ok to feel hatred towards Jews, since they, through their "internationalist tentacles" had harmed the German people.

You're a sucker for propaganda.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism
Reply #33 - Apr 30^th, 2010 at 10:08pm

This sums up my answer to your entire post:

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So the koran is the bit written by Muhammed, hat happens to lack any reference to banning images?

*face palm*

What part of "The Qur'an is what God set out for the Muslims. The Hadith are Muhammad's (pbuh) contribution" did you not understand? Either you're doing your best to wear down my patience (knowing your arguments are pathetic and indefensible) or you're not the quickest off the mark.

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freediver

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Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism
Reply #34 - Apr 30^th, 2010 at 10:12pm

When you say what actually happened it sounds like you are saying Muhammed wrote the Koran and other people wrote the hadiths.

How does this sum up your response to the rest of my post? Are you claiming to be an expert on freedom of speech as well now? Instead of just repeating that my 'version' of freedom is no more or less valid than your 'version', why don't you try to back it up? It is very easy to criticise your 'version' of freedom, because it is obviously not freedom. Why can you not make the same criticism of my version?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism
Reply #35 - May 1^st, 2010 at 11:29am

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When you say what actually happened it sounds like you are saying Muhammed wrote the Koran and other people wrote the hadiths.

Nope it's quite clear. The Qur'an is the word of God (since you don't believe in God anyway, I guess that one's kind of irrelevant to you), and the hadith are the words of Muhammad (pbuh).

Both the Qur'an and the Hadith were of course conveyed to us through Muhammad (pbuh) and a chain of narrators from his time until they were recorded. Without wanting to complicate it further, there's also Hadith Qudsi which is the words of God that Muhammad (pbuh) conveyed to us, but not as part of the Qur'an.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51891 At my desk.	Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism Reply #36 - May 1^st, 2010 at 8:44pm Quote: and a chain of narrators from his time until they were recorded. The Koran was recorded under Mo's direction, right? And the rest over the following centuries?
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism Reply #37 - May 1^st, 2010 at 8:57pm If you cannot pay the basic respect of writing his name properly, don't bother conversing on the topic.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51891 At my desk.	Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism Reply #38 - May 1^st, 2010 at 9:06pm Perhaps if I didn't have to repeat the question a dozen times to get a straight answer I wouldn't take to shortening it.
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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism
Reply #39 - May 1^st, 2010 at 9:20pm

Hadith are based on the teachings of Muhammad, his sayings and the way he lived his life. When you read them, it tells you which one of Muhammad's companions is relating the story. If something isn't clearly covered in the Quran, scholars turn to hadith. There are different versions and different levels of accuracy.

If you really want to know and are not just trying to be provocative, most muslims would agree that the '40 hadith' are a good place to start. Your local mosque or Islamic centre would have a copy and I'm willing to bet if you asked them for one, they'd treat you with love and respect and hand it right on over. Or you could google.

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism Reply #40 - May 2^nd, 2010 at 10:56am Quote: Perhaps if I didn't have to repeat the question a dozen times to get a straight answer Mate I have answered you very clearly. The Qur'an is the words of God and the Hadith are the words of Muhammad (pbuh). It doesn't get much clearer.
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freediver

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Re: Comedy central bows to terrorism
Reply #41 - May 2^nd, 2010 at 1:37pm

I am sure it is very clear to you, but it doesn't actually answer the question, does it?

Is the Koran the one that was recorded under Mohammed's direction, and the hadiths in the following centuries?

I'll give you a tip to help you give a straight answer - this is not a question about whether God wrote it, but about when.

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