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Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists. (Read 11265 times)
Grendel
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #60 - Apr 21st, 2010 at 10:19pm
 
please helian I'm trying not to fall asleep.  Roll Eyes
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Paella
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #61 - Apr 21st, 2010 at 10:51pm
 
Now you wouldn't be changing the subject there would you, beo?
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Grendel
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #62 - Apr 21st, 2010 at 10:52pm
 
No not at all...  I'm waiting for you to turn on your great big grey delco and enlighten me for a change.  Smiley
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Paella
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #63 - Apr 21st, 2010 at 11:49pm
 
Very good beo, I see that you've googled the phrase I asked you to enlighten us on and quoted two of the sites that come up on the first page. Now I would not have thought that someone with your expansive scientific knowledge would need to google infrared absorption of CO2, but I'm glad you did, because at least now you'll know something about the topic, even if it is from denialists.

As for me enlightening you for a change (a tall order I know, given your apparent mastery of the subject - muso must be envious), but anyway: The saturation theory enunciated on the second site first appeared in the formulation stages of the AGW hypothesis, back in the sixties - or even earlier perhaps. It was raised out of genuine enquiry, by scientists who were more interested in trying to understand absorption rather than gain insights into climatology. The theory was that as the emissions spectra of water vapour and carbon dioxide overlapped, carbon dioxide could only block IR radiation that was already blocked anyway, and would therefore not contribute to the blocking of the Earth's BBR. However, it was soon found that the degree of the overlap was misunderstood and overstated, so that theory died. It was long forgotten, until denialist pseudo-scientists stumbled on it and thought they'd try to give it a bit of a kick start.

Honestly, one of the silliest things about denialist theories is how very simplistic they are. If something as basic as this had any credibility, don't you think genuine researchers would be on to it? To believe otherwise requires one to subscribe to the global scientific conspiracy theory. The posting of those two links suggests to me that you possible do believe in the global scientific conspiracy theory.

You obviously have a penchant for those theories that are not supported by any evidence whatsoever. What's your star sign?
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Grendel
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #64 - Apr 22nd, 2010 at 12:19am
 
Actually I didn't google that phrase at all.

I am not the one bragging here Pooella...  I told you.
I studied Science, Physics and Chemistry.
BTW I passed all my exams rather well.
I also came first in Engineering Science and another subject and close to that in a few other subjects.  

That is not the point.  It aint a competition.  Even though you keep trying to knock me down to build you up.

So you do realise that CO2 doesn't just absorb radiation don't you? You keep failing to mention that it also radiates heat away from the atmosphere at very high altitudes.  So not only does it trap heat in the lower atmosphere (thank God)... it also has a cooling effect at higher altitudes.  You worked out a way to differentiate between the 2 CO2s?  Or are they one in the same?  So how would cutting emissions work do you think?  Stop the cooling effect?  The warming effect?  Both?  One before the other?  What would the Net result be do you think?  More cooling?  More warming?

Then there are all those questions about man-made CO2 as opposed to "naturally" occuring CO2...  and there's an endless list of questions there...

Then of course in relation to this topic for a change there is the recognition of our climate being a very complex thing and not at all well understood by the scientists making AGW claims but only occassionally admitting that they don't.

Do you believe in Astrology?  how quaint...  why don't you tell me what one you think.

As for conspiracies...  no i'm not a conspiranut.
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muso
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #65 - Apr 22nd, 2010 at 10:46am
 
Just let us know if you want more rope, Grendel.

Paella - I'll accept that you probably have a more current knowledge of Quantum Mechanics than I do.  The last time I visited the subject was at University, some 30 odd years ago.  It only clicked for me when I realised that it was all about probability distribution functions.  I know about Bose Einstein condensates and I know that there are a number of macroscopic implications (such as the fundamental properties of matter). I basically wanted to correct the common misconception that scientific uncertainty and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle were in any way related. 
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« Last Edit: Apr 22nd, 2010 at 10:54am by muso »  

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Paella
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #66 - Apr 22nd, 2010 at 1:48pm
 
Yes I'm sure you did very well at High School, beo. Congratulations! Not that you're bragging, of course.

And yes, I am also aware that CO2 molecules are somewhat indifferent to the direction of travel of infrared light. I would imagine that they will block a portion of infrared radiation no matter what direction it is going. AND I imagaine that if the blocking of the inbound radiation, whether equal in energy or not to the blocking of the outbound radiation, had the same influence on the energy retained below the troposphere, all would be good (or at least better, anyway).

Otherwise, as per my previous post about ridiculously simplistic scientific arguments coming from denialists. This ones seems to be the AGW version of bacterial flagellum. Actually, it's not even that clever.
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Grendel
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #67 - Apr 23rd, 2010 at 2:12pm
 
Well thanks for that brainiac...  as usual...  no use for anyone.

BTW no bragging involved...  sorry if you didn't do well.
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Paella
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #68 - Apr 23rd, 2010 at 3:19pm
 
I see Muso has given you that rope you were after.
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Grendel
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #69 - Apr 26th, 2010 at 10:00pm
 
So you guys choked on your imaginary rope or just run out of empty baseless phrases?
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muso
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #70 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 1:29pm
 
Did you have a question?
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Grendel
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #71 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 3:42pm
 
Nope...  just waiting for that rare thing they call an on topic comment.
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muso
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #72 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 4:18pm
 
Does anyone have anything constructive to say here? If not, I'll close the thread.
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Grendel
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #73 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 5:19pm
 
Oh well that would be convenient.
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Soren
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Re: Climate doubt acknowledged by Alarmists.
Reply #74 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 5:40pm
 
muso wrote on Apr 28th, 2010 at 4:18pm:
Does anyone have anything constructive to say here? If not, I'll close the thread.



Rudd's a sceptic now. What next?

I think you can safely close the thread. The alarm has run its course up spines until at least 2013. Until then, as you were.

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