Grendel wrote on Apr 24^th, 2010 at 10:55pm:


What is the relative magnitude of the heating and cooling effects?
Which one is greatest?
Please provide references.

FD... I've never thought climate is simple...  in fact I've always argued that it is very complex...  don't you read what I write?
Quote:


Dont you know muso?

I think it points out that there is an 800 year lag which many people have been saying for a very long time and others have been ignoring.

As for the "orthodoxy"...  depends on what you define it as.

Muso doesn't even come into my thinking...
This lag point was one of the first I ever brought up.
Long before Muso entered the scene.

What for?
Do you need to grow up too?

Grendel wrote on Apr 25^th, 2010 at 8:55am:



Yes I do. I just thought it would be better for you to research it yourself rather than be told by me. After all, the author of the article didn't dwell on such a trivial matter. Do you ever wonder why?  Do you ever suspect that they emphasise only what they want to emphasise?  

There is nothing revolutionary or new about any of the LIDAR measurements from the Antarctic or anywhere else for that matter.

Possibly one of the denialist sites has latched on to the fact that the upper stratosphere around 50 km has cooled as a result of the radiative forcing of CO2. If you read the sticky notes. If you look at Reply 11 dated November last year, you'll see clear reference to this cooling effect of the lower stratosphere, which is a direct consequence of the long wave IR absorption of CO2 in the lower atmosphere.

So, yes, there is a cooling effect in the upper atmosphere. It has no bearing on the troposphere.

LIDAR's have been used for many years for atmospheric profiling studies.

Grendel wrote on Apr 26^th, 2010 at 6:58pm:


Just imagine a dandelion seed head. The centre represents a carbon dioxide atom. The seed stalks radiate at all angles. They represent the directions that the Infrared rays are re-radiated when emitted by the CO2 atom.

The Carbon dioxide molecule lives way up high in the atmosphere. It's quite a lonely little molecule, but it's getting more and more friends every year.

One day, it was getting on with some day to day random movements when this big bad photon of long wave infrared radiation hit it up the rear. It absorbed the big bad photon and became very excited. So excited that it threw out another infrared photon in a completely random direction.

If the little carbon dioxide molecule had not been there, then the Infrared photon would have carried on all the way out to outer space, unless it had been caught by another carbon dioxide molecule of course.

Of course sometimes the little carbon dioxide molecule throws the photon out in its original direction.  Is that a cooling effect?

Well you judge for yourselves, girls and boys.