Australian Politics Forum - CO2 and the 800 year lag.

muso

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #15 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 6:10pm

Soren wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 4:43pm:

SO the bottom line is that without human CO2 emission, the climate graph would have been relatively flat for the last 50 or 150 years, take your pick, as solar and volcanic variations or data collection variations have been relatively insignificant for those periods and the effects of other possible climate influences can be discounted.

How did the earth respond to past increases of CO2?

I'll rephrase that so that the question is more relevant if you don't mind.

How did the earth respond to past increases of CO2 of similar magnitude and rate of change( to that predicted for the end of the century)?

Do you want me to answer that question?

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Grendel

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #16 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 7:18pm

ROTFLMAO

I'm sorry but you guys are sooooo funny.

Talk about running around in complete denial.

Quote:

The problem I had was with the comments you added. As I said, what is written there makes sense, it's just that it doesn't click with you.

Nothing wrong with my comments actually... accept your inability to comprehend Muso. My thoughts are also shared by others that have been studying climate longer than you. The question is when is it going to CLICK WITH YOU.

Mozz... I'll try to keep it simple so you can keep your analogy. How much have we turned up the volume? Clue.. look at the percentage of man-made emissions compared to the total. Now you can relax and stop panicking.

Pooella... I'm sure I already made it clear but the argument is supplied by REALCLIMATE, not me. Now go and make your titanic contributions on a subject your better equipped for.

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Paella

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #17 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 8:35pm

Grendel wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 7:18pm:

Clue.. look at the percentage of man-made emissions compared to the total. Now you can relax and stop panicking.

I don't hold your level of knowledge on this subject in very high regard, but I am surprised that your understanding is this poor. Comparing the human contribution of carbon in the atmosphere to the total is not the point. The point is the effect the additional contribution has on the biospheric carbon cycle.

An analogy: suppose you have carefully measured out the correct volume of automatic transmission fluid for your high perfomance vehicle. Let's say you need 9 litres. Then I come along and put an extra litre in. Your transmission catches fire and you blame me. But Ahh, I say, only put in 10% of the total. That's insignificant.

Having said that, and Muso, feel free to correct me, I believe the human contribution to atmospheric carbon is 35% to 45%. Not insignificant, though not the point, in any case.

Grendel wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 7:18pm:

Pooella... I'm sure I already made it clear but the argument is supplied by REALCLIMATE, not me.

That the article came from realclimate is not in dispute. The issue is that it doesn't say what you think it says. Muso cannot have possibly made that any more clear.

I think you ought to change your catchphrase. May I suggest RBFIFPSMT? Rocking back and forth in the foetal position sucking my thumb. Which is what I suspect you are up to in between bouts of ROTF and LYAO.

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mozzaok

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #18 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 9:11pm

The bottom line is that denialists are likely the religious extremists, they are searching for validation where it does not exist.

I remember seeing this US news guy on a youtube clip saying he had evidence that would make atheists accept god.
He was a totall freakin loon and had no evidence of anything, but he sincerely, and very passionately believed he had nailed an incontrivertible argument that jesus is god.

You cannot reason with such people, they do not work from a basis of reason, like the "thicky" in the clip muso posted, thanks btw, it was very funny, you just have to try and stop them being so goddamned proud of their thicknicity.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag. Reply #19 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 9:16pm You guys are a joke honestly...
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mozzaok

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #20 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 9:32pm

What I was getting at Grendel is the same point I make over and over, I have to trust experts on some things that are beyond my expertise, and the intricacies of climate most certainly are, so I take the avice of the overwhelming majority whose arguments always appear the most cogent, and are backed by the best bottom line we have, which is a pascall's wager of sorts for the planet, rather than some make believe afterlife.

Even if they are absolutely wrong, the worst thing that happens is we leave behind for future generations, a better planet anyway.

Denialists only argument against this is the whole New World Order Conspiracy theory, and I just do not buy that crap, and no self respecting skeptic does.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Grendel

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #21 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 9:55pm

Quote:

Denialists only argument against this is the whole New World Order Conspiracy theory, and I just do not buy that crap, and no self respecting skeptic does.

Which continues to show how totally ignorant, close-minded and biased you are about the subject. You ignore the dissenting scientific opinion and crap on about conspiracy theories, oblivious to what the other side is actually saying. Creating your own distorted version of the dissent to validate your own belief. Pathetic.

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2010 at 10:05pm by Grendel »

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Paella

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #22 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 10:44pm

Grendel wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 9:55pm:

You ignore the dissenting scientific opinion and crap on about conspiracy theories, oblivious to what the other side is actually saying.

Gee, and I thought we'd been posting detailed, accurate and substantiated replies to the anti-AGW theories you and soren lorenson have been posting.

But all we seem to get from Beogrendel is:

Grendel wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 9:16pm:

You guys are a joke honestly...

Such wit. Such talent!

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag. Reply #23 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 10:51pm yawnn kinda repetitive ridicule even for a stalker.
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Soren

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #24 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 10:59pm

mozzaok wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 9:32pm:

What I was getting at Grendel is the same point I make over and over, I have to trust experts on some things that are beyond my expertise, and the intricacies of climate most certainly are, so I take the avice of the overwhelming majority whose arguments always appear the most cogent, and are backed by the best bottom line we have, which is a pascall's wager of sorts for the planet, rather than some make believe afterlife.

You like saying this, Mozz, but in fact you take advice from no expert and read and digest no arguments presented in scientific forums.

You, like almost everyone else in this issue, get your bearings exclusively from non-experts: newspapers, magazines, the internet - in short, the mass media.

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Paella Senior Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 290	Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag. Reply #25 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 11:38pm Grendel wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 10:51pm: yawnn kinda repetitive ridicule even for a stalker. No dude, this is repetitive: Quote: yawn Not to mention: Quote: ROFLMAO If you stop posting unsubstantiated denial drivel, I'll stop stalking you.
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Paella

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #26 - Apr 13^th, 2010 at 11:48pm

Ah, soren. Glad you've stuck around. Look I know this is from the other thread and all, but you seem to be avoiding me in that one ... can't think why. Anyway, where were we? Ah, yes. That's right:

Paella wrote on Apr 12^th, 2010 at 1:29am:

Soren lorenson, since you are obviously willing to to accept Lindzen as an authority on the topic, do you now also accept that AGW is real?

Lindzen certainly does.

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Soren

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #27 - Apr 14^th, 2010 at 12:08am

Paella wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 11:48pm:

Ah, soren. Glad you've stuck around. Look I know this is from the other thread and all, but you seem to be avoiding me in that one ... can't think why. Anyway, where were we? Ah, yes. That's right:

Paella wrote on Apr 12^th, 2010 at 1:29am:

Soren lorenson, since you are obviously willing to to accept Lindzen as an authority on the topic, do you now also accept that AGW is real?

Lindzen certainly does.

No

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Grendel

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #28 - Apr 14^th, 2010 at 12:10am

Lindzen is a well known for his views on global warming and a critic of what he states are political pressures on climate scientists to conform to climate alarmism. In a 2007 interview on the Larry King Show, Lindzen said of global warming alarmism:
Quote:

“ "we're talking of a few tenths of a degree change in temperature. None of it in the last eight years, by the way. And if we had warming, it should be accomplished by less storminess. But because the temperature itself is so unspectacular, we have developed all sorts of fear of prospect scenarios -- of flooding, of plague, of increased storminess when the physics says we should see less.

I think it's mainly just like little kids locking themselves in dark closets to see how much they can scare each other and themselves."

In a 2009 editorial in the Wall Street Journal, Lindzen points out that the earth was just emerging from the "Little Ice Age" in the 19th century and concludes that it is "not surprising" to see warming after that. He goes on to state that the IPCC claims were...

Quote:

"...based on the weak argument that the current models used by the IPCC couldn't reproduce the warming from about 1978 to 1998 without some forcing, and that the only forcing that they could think of was man. Even this argument assumes that these models adequately deal with natural internal variability—that is, such naturally occurring cycles as El Nino, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, etc.

Yet articles from major modeling centers acknowledged that the failure of these models to anticipate the absence of warming for the past dozen years was due to the failure of these models to account for this natural internal variability. Thus even the basis for the weak IPCC argument for anthropogenic climate change was shown to be false."

You don't seem to be getting much if anything right Pooella.

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« Last Edit: Apr 14^th, 2010 at 12:28am by Grendel »

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Paella

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Re: CO2 and the 800 year lag.
Reply #29 - Apr 14^th, 2010 at 7:50am

Very good soren lorenson. So why would you be quoting Lindzen as an authority, when his line is "AGW is occurring, but it's not as bad as most scientists say", when your line is "AGW is not happening at all".

Grendel has missed the point (again). I am aware of what Lindzen says. My point is that what he says is not consistent with what soren is saying. Soren denies AGW is real. Lindzen does not: he just says it not so bad. Soren can't have it both ways.

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