Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 15
Send Topic Print
Drug war is lost (Read 49510 times)
Equitist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9632
NSW
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #45 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 10:18am
 


muso wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 10:11am:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 8:36am:
We have created a society where people are unhappy  often through
NO of fault of their own.
Many people get can't buy a house to live in - they can't pay their bills -
they are working poor being exploited.
Drug use seems to be more rife in the lower demographics.
It's a symptom of a failing society.
You have to feel sorry for people who are so miserable that their only
way of escaping for a short while is to stick a needle in their arm
of some powder that a gangster sells them on the street -
which could be Ajax for all they know.
They could have the cleanest veins in town but also be dead.

This caused by our sick, unfair society but once
again you blame the drug addicts.


Good point that drug use is a symptom of underlying problems.  I have absolutely no sympathy for drug dealers who are main reason for the scale of this problem.  

However Drug addicts need to be treated as patients rather than felons. The suggestion of outreach programs makes more sense in that context.

Whatever we can do to reduce drugs on the streets is  a good thing.




Ditto!

The unmitigated proliferation of dangerous illicit drugs throughout the world is no accident - there is corruption at high levels which results in a systematic over-emphasis on the more visible petty crimes of individual lower level traffickers and dealers, whilst leaving the well-resourced king-pins of organised crime to do and profit as they amorally please...

Back to top
 

Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #46 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 1:29am
 
We are all addicted to some type of drug.
In the case of our society, less physically harmful drugs, such as marijuana, get a bad name because they affect productivity.

If it so happened that marijuana had a positive affect upon productivity, then undoubtably it would be advertised as an acceptable drug.
What we are really debating with marijuana is individual worth vs. society worth. In that respect, I see it as kind of a magical drug which transcends capitalism and communism alike.

Paracetamol or aspirin will be in the same category if administered in the same manner.
A side effect of marijuana is that one is probably not going to be very productive, whereas paracetamol or aspirin will no have a great influence upon productivity.

If used in the correct manner, natural marijuana can obliterate the requirement for many other drugs in certain situations. In fact, it can be far more useful and also less physically harmful...that's why we have such democrratic political parties like the "Marijuana Party" who are regularly scoffed at.

Before scoffing, you need to read up and know what you are scoffing about, because there just may be a little sustance in the argument there.







Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 120174
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #47 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 7:16pm
 
Equitist.
Quote:
Whatever we can do to reduce drugs on the streets is  a good thing.


One way is to reduce poverty so that people don't use drugs as
an escape from their miserable lives.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41797
Gender: male
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #48 - May 25th, 2012 at 1:26pm
 

I cannot see any way in the criminilisation of drugs helped this woman, I can see almost every way it had the opposite of the desired effect..........

Quote:
FOR five anguished, exhausting and educative years in the 1990s I, like thousands of other ordinary Australians, was addicted to heroin. And I can honestly say that during that time the thought that heroin was illegal was very far from the top of my mind.

I was focused on protecting myself from violence, hoping to avoid overdose, battling overwhelming messages of shaming and hostility from society, and simply getting through each day without collapsing. In this way, although I was never actually charged with using heroin, the criminal penalties attached to the drug would inevitably propel me further and further into a dark, unhappy, alienated and criminal world.


When society hates and fears you, what is your interest in observing a law that seems so arbitrary (alcohol is legal) and unjust (addicts are the most vulnerable in the drug supply chain)? Everything has already been lost. What's a criminal conviction to someone whose body is screaming in pain and has nothing further to forfeit?

I'm not expecting pity for heroin addicts, though I believe sympathy, at least, is more useful than revulsion. What I propose is reconsideration of prejudicial legislation that is wrong, no matter that it is based on genuine concern for the wellbeing of society.

Criminalisation of drugs such as heroin simply doesn't make sense. Whether you view drug addiction as illness, affliction, vice, symptom or destiny, my experience was that I never intended to become a heroin addict. Legality wasn't my concern when I was addicted. And my suffering was truly punishment enough, if punishment were even warranted for what is a problem more akin to mental illness than criminal malice


I never, ever, met a junkie scared straight by the law. ''You'll be next,'' a counsellor told me, pointing out a girl headed for prison. Even that dire warning couldn't permeate the slimy combination of shame, defiance and disbelief I was wrapped in. The drug owned me: it was that simple. All I could fight for was the dignity being steadily stripped by prejudice, poverty, desperation and illness.

Illegality did not deter me from heroin for a moment, any more than it had prevented me and every well-educated, employed and emotionally stable friend of mine from experimenting with other drugs. Soon I was not only a victim, a sufferer and a patient; I was also a fugitive and criminal. Heroin is expensive, even in the 1990s when it was comparatively cheap. By the high point of addiction I needed several hundred dollars a day - every day. Black market economics grossly inflated the price. This ''prohibitive'' expense in turn pushed me first to petty pilfering, then illegal sex work on the street. There was simply no other way to finance my habit, nor could I defeat it.

I ended with a criminal record, not for heroin possession but for street soliciting. (This police record, incidentally, threatened my entry to the US several years later on a tour to speak about recovery and rehabilitation to drug users.) Others - usually males - turned to burglary, mugging and scams. Thus one supposed criminality engendered real others.

Buying drugs on the street, I risked rip-off, arrest and violence. The dealers I met were generally fellow users (or gambling addicts), as captive and hapless as I was.

Unregulated supplies of potentially lethal drugs meant injecting unknown substances, abscesses of the veins, organ damage and dangerously fluctuating potencies. Being present at an overdose meant risking further criminal charges, from possession to manslaughter. Stricken people were left to die alone as their associates fled in apprehension of the law.

I shot up in lanes, on railway sidings, among rubbish and in cafe and bar toilets. Being a junkie doesn't mean you don't find rubbish smelly. Fearful of discovery, I fixed up hurriedly and therefore carelessly; there are public toilets in Melbourne that still fill me with a sense of humiliation and horror. If I had overdosed in a lonely, weed-grown lane, no one would have noticed for some time.

Unconscious and vomiting in a public toilet cubicle, I would have traumatised an innocent discoverer. Heroin addiction was a geography of exile, of shunned wastelands, repulsive illness, and constant furtive anxiety. Becoming a pariah only made me seek the drug's consolation all the more. Medical practitioners regarded me with varying degrees of sympathy or contempt. Magistrates sighed and made examples of me. Newspapers called for the extermination of my kind. My family wept; and terror grew in my heart by the year until it was all I knew. Hope, like heroin, was too expensive.

But none of this was soothed, or avoided, by the threat of criminal charges. No one, neither myself nor the community, was protected. Rather, it was shame, suffering, silence and stigma that flourished in the shadow of those punitive and futile laws.

Kate Holden is the author of In My Skin and The Romantic.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/take-it-from-an-exaddict-outlawing-drugs-does-not-work-20120524-1z7tb.html#ixzz1vqeemrqJ


http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/take-it-from-an-exaddict-outlawing-dru...

the only people that benefit from her experience are the drug dealers, the legal system.
the police do not benefit, she did not, society does not.
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
bobbythefap1
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7026
Listen now to the rain
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #49 - May 25th, 2012 at 1:30pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 7:16pm:
Equitist.
Quote:
Whatever we can do to reduce drugs on the streets is  a good thing.


One way is to reduce poverty so that people don't use drugs as
an escape from their miserable lives.

It is a genuine fact.
A well known study (done many times by many different people) shows that rats and mice will almost always choose drugs over food, to the point that they starve to death.
It was later tried (and since has been done many times by many different people) that if you expand the cage to a certain size the majority will choose food over drugs, if they even picked drugs at all.
Back to top
 

A day without sunshine is like night.
 
IP Logged
 
bobbythefap1
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7026
Listen now to the rain
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #50 - May 25th, 2012 at 1:31pm
 
If you people are for keeping drugs illegal then surely you would want pharmaceuticals to become illegal and their dealers, cooks and pushers to be incarcerated?
Back to top
 

A day without sunshine is like night.
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #51 - May 27th, 2012 at 6:56pm
 
The illegal drug trade makes 300 billion dollars a year, an insane amount of money to be going into the hands of terrorists and criminals.
A significant amount of that 300 billion gets spent on weapons, and funding, for terrorists, and the fact6 that the world's major heroin production follows the world's worst conflicts around, is not a coincidence, it is a financial imperative.

The ignorant people who wish to see this horrendous pattern stay unchanged, do so from a position of ignorance, often justified by personal moral and religious imperatives that defy logic.

Einstein defined insanity as repeating the same actions, and expecting a different outcome.
Well we have tried the War On Drugs as a course of action, and it has failed utterly, so to expect that continuing it will somehow see us witness a different outcome, according to Einstein, and just about every intelligent person who has ever taken the time and trouble to examine the facts, is INSANE.

It is long overdue that societies take a different approach, and a staged transition to a system which legalises, controls, and taxes drugs, combined with advanced harm minimisation as well as education and rehabilitation programs, is the mature, intelligent, and humane way forward, on this issue.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #52 - May 28th, 2012 at 1:50am
 
Quote:
Well we have tried the War On Drugs as a course of action, and it has failed utterly, so to expect that continuing it will somehow see us witness a different outcome, according to Einstein, and just about every intelligent person who has ever taken the time and trouble to examine the facts, is INSANE.


That comment, by Blair, " The war on drugs", was pretty short lived and got snuffed out immediately.

Pretty soon it was to do with the "Re-production of hard drugs", the re-emergence of what the Taliban had conquered.
That innocent-faced Taliban guy got cold-murdered. Nobody gave a crap, as long as the heroin production continued, and continued to drive a bs society which was/is off it's head in the ridiculous name of power.

It was merely a "Redistribution of morals".... Grin Grin Grin




Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #53 - May 28th, 2012 at 6:17am
 
A Redistribution of morals? Yeah I can go with that  Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
hawil
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1345
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #54 - Jul 19th, 2012 at 8:07pm
 
Hlysnan wrote on Mar 27th, 2010 at 9:37pm:
Assuming the drug war is lost, what do we do now? You say that drugs need to be supplied by the government, but can't the private sector deal with this? I don't want taxpayer money suddenly going from the fight against drugs to handing out drugs. And wouldn't people naturally seek out more dangerous drugs if some of the currently illegal drugs became allowed?

By legalising drugs, it does not mean that the government should issue free drugs; but if drugs would be legal the price would plummet. As the prohibition of alcohol produced huge profits for criminals, the same is happening now with drugs.
At times it appears that the governments do not want to find solutions, and that goes for gambling, smoking and drinking.
The government should should maybe put advertisements on their media outlets, like, if your silly to gamble, go ahead and lose all your money, if you want to smoke, and smell like a stale ashtray, go ahead, and if you want to kill yourself with drugs, feel free to do it.
It may sound too radical, but then, it may solve many problems.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
hawil
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1345
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #55 - Jul 19th, 2012 at 8:12pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 7:16pm:
Equitist.
Quote:
Whatever we can do to reduce drugs on the streets is  a good thing.


One way is to reduce poverty so that people don't use drugs as
an escape from their miserable lives.

What you are suggesting, is the last thing the elites want to do; just consider the huge pay rises to politicians and highly paid public servants, many are now on $500,000 plus a year.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
namnugenot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 639
NSW
Gender: male
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #56 - Aug 1st, 2012 at 10:30am
 
You either have to legalize them to remove the profit motive which too many powerful people would not allow to happen because they make too much money.

Or have a mandatory death penalty for anyone in possession.

There is no middle ground.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
bobbythefap1
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7026
Listen now to the rain
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #57 - Aug 1st, 2012 at 11:03am
 
namnugenot wrote on Aug 1st, 2012 at 10:30am:
You either have to legalize them to remove the profit motive which too many powerful people would not allow to happen because they make too much money.

Or have a mandatory death penalty for anyone in possession.

There is no middle ground.

Middle ground is actually legalisation.
Back to top
 

A day without sunshine is like night.
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 120174
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #58 - Aug 2nd, 2012 at 7:20am
 
hawil wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 8:12pm:
Bobby. wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 7:16pm:
Equitist.
Quote:
Whatever we can do to reduce drugs on the streets is  a good thing.


One way is to reduce poverty so that people don't use drugs as
an escape from their miserable lives.

What you are suggesting, is the last thing the elites want to do; just consider the huge pay rises to politicians and highly paid public servants, many are now on $500,000 plus a year.



Drug use is caused by poverty.
We treat the symptom & not the cause.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Emma
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female
Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #59 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 1:04am
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Aug 1st, 2012 at 11:03am:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 1st, 2012 at 10:30am:
You either have to legalize them to remove the profit motive which too many powerful people would not allow to happen because they make too much money.

Or have a mandatory death penalty for anyone in possession.

There is no middle ground.



Middle ground is actually legalisation
.

Oh yes Saul.... it's commonsense really.
Something sadly lacking in political leaders today. Sad
Back to top
 

live every day
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 15
Send Topic Print