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Drug war is lost (Read 49507 times)
Bobby.
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #15 - Sep 8th, 2010 at 5:51pm
 
We need to consider the reason behind drug abuse.

Why do many young people have such terrible lives
that the only solution they can think of is to buy some
unknown powder at a railway station & inject it up their arm?
The powder could be Ajax for all they know - and instantly kill them.

We need to understand why people are so miserable
& help them to discover a happier life.
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #16 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 9:25am
 
Bobby. wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 5:51pm:
We need to consider the reason behind drug abuse.

Why do many young people have such terrible lives
that the only solution they can think of is to buy some
unknown powder at a railway station & inject it up their arm?
The powder could be Ajax for all they know - and instantly kill them.

We need to understand why people are so miserable
& help them to discover a happier life.


Why can't we just accept that some people in the world are idiots, and live with that.
And is it really necessary to understand why they are idiots and why they make such poor life choices.
Perhaps that's a question they should be asking themselves.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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mozzaok
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #17 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 12:36pm
 
Drug USE, and drug ABUSE, are not one and the same, and as rightly pointed out by Ammad, ever since the guys were out chasing wooly mammoths, and the ladies out gathering, noticed they got a nice buzz on when they ate the mushrooms with the purple stems, people have been using the gifts that our divine creator(wink) provided us with, to better enjoy our temporary existence upon this mighty rock.
So to just condemn any and all things which alter us from our natural state is small minded and foolish.
Many people need drugs to function, and as such they have them prescribed to them, and many people find a glass of wine a pleasant addition to a fine meal, as such, these people are all DRUG users, but the whole drug issue needs to be considered in relation to the harm that may flow from any particular drug use, and we all know that Alcohol, and tobacco, both fully LEGAL drugs, produce the greatest harm, and the greatest costs to our society, so to marginalise, and criminalise others who do no harm to any, but who happen to indulge a desire to get off their nut on some drug occasionally, is a strange decision for a civilised society to make.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #18 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 1:49pm
 
Many people need drugs to function, and as such they have them prescribed to them ..

- Mozza

Most people know the difference btwn taking prescribed medication in order to live a healthier life as opposed to taking drugs like speed, heroin etc which do the opposite .. they slowly kill you.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #19 - Sep 14th, 2010 at 8:37pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 9:25am:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 5:51pm:
We need to consider the reason behind drug abuse.

Why do many young people have such terrible lives
that the only solution they can think of is to buy some
unknown powder at a railway station & inject it up their arm?
The powder could be Ajax for all they know - and instantly kill them.

We need to understand why people are so miserable
& help them to discover a happier life.


Why can't we just accept that some people in the world are idiots, and live with that.
And is it really necessary to understand why they are idiots and why they make such poor life choices.
Perhaps that's a question they should be asking themselves.


You sound like someone who wants simple answers to complex problems.
Idiots?
Sometimes very intelligent & successful people are
destroyed by drugs - especially heroin & cocaine.
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Amadd
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #20 - Sep 15th, 2010 at 8:57am
 
Quote:
Sometimes very intelligent & successful people are
destroyed by drugs - especially heroin & cocaine.


If they fall to drugs, then they fail. Tough titty.
If it's not cocaine or heroin that they need to bring about the "definition of success", then it would be some other personality trait. Maybe wife bashing, maybe religion, maybe paedophilia, ..there's always something.







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Bobby.
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #21 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 10:41am
 
Amadd wrote on Sep 15th, 2010 at 8:57am:
Quote:
Sometimes very intelligent & successful people are
destroyed by drugs - especially heroin & cocaine.


If they fall to drugs, then they fail. Tough titty.
If it's not cocaine or heroin that they need to bring about the "definition of success", then it would be some other personality trait. Maybe wife bashing, maybe religion, maybe paedophilia, ..there's always something.



Amadd - I think society should take a medical approach to drug abuse.
Surely it's a medical problem & we are wasting time & money
turning it into a policing problem?
For many harmless pot users the legal problem is the only problem.
They contribute to society - harm no one & pay taxes yet they are treated as criminals.
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mozzaok
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #22 - Sep 16th, 2010 at 11:47am
 
Bobby. wrote on Sep 16th, 2010 at 10:41am:
Amadd wrote on Sep 15th, 2010 at 8:57am:
Quote:
Sometimes very intelligent & successful people are
destroyed by drugs - especially heroin & cocaine.


If they fall to drugs, then they fail. Tough titty.
If it's not cocaine or heroin that they need to bring about the "definition of success", then it would be some other personality trait. Maybe wife bashing, maybe religion, maybe paedophilia, ..there's always something.



Amadd - I think society should take a medical approach to drug abuse.
Surely it's a medical problem & we are wasting time & money
turning it into a policing problem?
For many harmless pot users the legal problem is the only problem.
They contribute to society - harm no one & pay taxes yet they are treated as criminals.


Not only that, because of the criminal element involved in illegal drug dealing, many "normal" law abiding people come into contact with a criminal element that they normally would not.
This can see criminality "normalised" in their minds, and lead to the acceptance of other things they would not entertain if they did not mix with this criminal element because of their drug use.
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #23 - Sep 28th, 2010 at 11:39am
 
Bobby. wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 8:37pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 9:25am:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 5:51pm:
We need to consider the reason behind drug abuse.

Why do many young people have such terrible lives
that the only solution they can think of is to buy some
unknown powder at a railway station & inject it up their arm?
The powder could be Ajax for all they know - and instantly kill them.

We need to understand why people are so miserable
& help them to discover a happier life.


Why can't we just accept that some people in the world are idiots, and live with that.
And is it really necessary to understand why they are idiots and why they make such poor life choices.
Perhaps that's a question they should be asking themselves.


You sound like someone who wants simple answers to complex problems.
Idiots?
Sometimes very intelligent & successful people are
destroyed by drugs - especially heroin & cocaine.


I've always found that the simple answer is usually the best one in life.
We can procrastinate and find excuses to do nothing looking for complex answers till the cows come home, but the problems remain.
Just because someone in considered to be very intelligent by some and are successful in life, doesn't mean they don't make poor life choices as we have seen many times before.
There has been enough education in the last thirty years in this country on the use of illicit drugs, so they have no excuse for not being informed.
So yes, that does make them idiots.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.
 
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #24 - Sep 28th, 2010 at 11:46am
 
mozzaok wrote on Sep 14th, 2010 at 12:36pm:
Drug USE, and drug ABUSE, are not one and the same, and as rightly pointed out by Ammad, ever since the guys were out chasing wooly mammoths, and the ladies out gathering, noticed they got a nice buzz on when they ate the mushrooms with the purple stems, people have been using the gifts that our divine creator(wink) provided us with, to better enjoy our temporary existence upon this mighty rock.
So to just condemn any and all things which alter us from our natural state is small minded and foolish.
Many people need drugs to function, and as such they have them prescribed to them, and many people find a glass of wine a pleasant addition to a fine meal, as such, these people are all DRUG users, but the whole drug issue needs to be considered in relation to the harm that may flow from any particular drug use, and we all know that Alcohol, and tobacco, both fully LEGAL drugs, produce the greatest harm, and the greatest costs to our society, so to marginalise, and criminalise others who do no harm to any, but who happen to indulge a desire to get off their nut on some drug occasionally, is a strange decision for a civilised society to make.


Well the reason that alcohol and tobacco cause the greatest harm, is because they are LEGAL and millions more people indulge.
That is a simple fact.
So don't pretend that legalising illicit drugs wont have the same effect on society that the legal ones do as the level of users skyrockets.
And as we have seen so many times before, the overwhelming majority of young people don't know the difference between 'use' and 'abuse'.
To young people 'more' is good.
The last thing this country needs is to see our road toll skyrocket even more, or the crime rate because of the legalisation of these substances.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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2003.
 
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Belgarion
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #25 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 4:35pm
 
Some years back I was on a course where as an exercise we were split into teams and told to come up with a solution to the drug problem.

Our team came up with:

Addicts do not go to prison for minor possession but are encouraged to attend rehab. Addicts convicted of criminal offences are not sent to mainstream prison but to a secure rehab facility. They will be helped over their addiction and given vocational training and education to enable them to function on the outside. There will be no fixed sentence, but a panel will review progress and decide when an inmate is ready for release. If they reoffend all bets are off and the traditional prison system will deal with them.

Traffickers will be dealt with harshly, with mandatory sentences and asset seizure made easier.

Not a perfect solution, but the world is not a perfect place. The course participants included Police who were very definite that the system as it was was failing.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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mozzaok
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #26 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 9:50pm
 
I hate to laugh, but what they would like us to construe as well meaning naivety, when people come up with such ideas is really more about trying to make themselves feel better,, they could not give a rat's rectum about drug users, unless they are an immediate family member, and there ultimate solution, "chuck 'em in jail", is what they really want to do all along, and all the mealy mouth prelude is simply salve to their own consciences, so they do not feel like the ignorant judgmental fwits they are.
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Amadd
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #27 - Mar 19th, 2011 at 7:22am
 
I agree that there is really little concern for the drug user per se'. The concern seems more about how to force them to contribute to society as others would see fit.
And people clammer to rip the arms off of drug users in an attempt to "save" them. Sometimes, you'd have to wonder who is need of being saved.

Obviously, drug use is an extremely complex issue. No mathematical formula could realistically ever hope to input all of the variables where the desired result is a variable.

Usually, I think, the question of what harm a specific drug is doing to the user is not the issue. The issue is wtf are we getting out this person's decision to partake in a certain drug?

In tablet form, it would be hard to argue that many of the "recreational" drugs out there are any more harmful to the human body than many of the manufactured and controlled drugs in the same form.

It would be a sin to stop anybody trying to stop anybody going to the edge for the promise of mediocrity.

Is adrenalin a drug? Should it be banned?






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« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2011 at 2:41pm by Amadd »  
 
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muso
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #28 - Mar 22nd, 2011 at 4:23pm
 
I loved that clip. No, adrenalin should not be banned.

- but at least adrenalin is produced by the body and not prepared in drug labs by sociopathic criminals (who just want to get rich fast on the addiction of others) and laced with calcium hypochlorite or something.

We need to draw the line somewhere. Many drug addicts pay a terrible price in terms of physical health and the loss of mental stability. There are those who make themselves rich at the expense of the weak like that - but it's blood money.

I don't support the death penalty, but I feel elated when I hear about drug smugglers being arrested in Indonesia and Singapore.  I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. It's a similar feeling to that when I step on a cockroach.
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muso
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Re: Drug war is lost
Reply #29 - Mar 22nd, 2011 at 4:32pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Sep 16th, 2010 at 10:41am:
Amadd - I think society should take a medical approach to drug abuse.
Surely it's a medical problem & we are wasting time & money
turning it into a policing problem?
For many harmless pot users the legal problem is the only problem.
They contribute to society - harm no one & pay taxes yet they are treated as criminals.


I agree. Make it easy for drug users to get health checks in a non-judgmental environment.

However, There is no such thing as harmless pot.

Drug dealers deserve no mercy.
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